The Rapture

Laish · May 8, 2017

Hello VCO
A simple suggestion,try using a different source other than Wikipedia. They seem all cool but the sight is flawed and is quite liberal,and not suited for any serious information concerning Biblical study . For instance some years back they had Jesus as a legendary figure. I would not believe them if they told me the sky was blue.
Blessings
Bill
note the time of the writing of revelation has been debated for centuries. It's not completely settled.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

abcdef said:

Where are you getting 7 years from? Where is the prophesy of a 7 year great tribulation of Israel? If there is a 7 year prophesy, then maybe the other 3.5 takes us to the end of Masada in 73-74 AD where some of the zealots were able to escape and then killed themselves once the Romans were on the verge of breaking through. But not sure if that 3.5 years are necessary.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

abcdef said:

a-f,

Have you considered this verse carefully? This too deals with the destruction and desolation of Jerusalem.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

During the great tribulation of Jerusalem, they were slaughtered by the tens of thousands by tyrants John and Simon and of course by the Romans. They were also starved to death by the hundreds of thousands. In all >1.1 million Jews were killed during their great tribulation. When the great tribulation ended and the Romans finally broke through after 42 months of siege and fighting, they carried away the survivors eventually to Rome to take part in Titus' victory parade. However, from the start of the siege in 66 AD to the end in 70 AD, many were able to escape the city (including all 144K of the Jewish Christians who were barricaded on Mount Zion). Those who escaped went off in all directions into all nations. Those who were taken to Rome settled there and were eventually allowed to leave and many also moved to other nations, a process that continued even to the discovery of America.

For the next few months after the entire city was burned to the ground, many Jews were kept for a few months to literally dismantle the entire temple and city stone-by-stone. This was done because the Romans wanted to recover all the gold and silver (which melted from the intense heat of the fire) which ran down through the cracks in the stone. The temple was adorned with gold and precious stones and the people had pried up pieces of their stone floors in their homes to hide their money. The fire came so quickly that many had to flee without first being able to recover their money.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

AH, please read this entire post. I'm trying to help you and others who think as you do.

I realize you are set in your beliefs and not open to considering something different from what you've been taught and led to believe all your life. But I am not spiritualizing the cosmic disturbances. I am reducing them down to their original OT meaning and localizing them to the places where the divine judgment occurred. In other words, these judgments were not global as history tells us but they were very real to those who were to face God's punishment.

Please study these OT signs of pending judgment and destruction. The prophet Isaiah foretold God’s coming judgment against Babylon using images similar to those Jesus used in the Olivet Discourse. Around 701 BC, he uttered “the burden of Babylon,” part of which is:

Destruction of Babylon (~539 BC):

Isa 13 (truncated): The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw...Wail, for the day of the Lord is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty...Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger...

Isaiah had little reason, from a human perspective, to believe Babylon’s world would end. This was, after all, the mightiest empire on earth. Yet the prophet said “the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty” (Isaiah 13:6). Isaiah’s knowledge of this end-of-the-world event came from heaven.

God told the prophet about the coming “cosmic collapse,” and he revealed the instrument by which it would occur. He said: “Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it” (Isaiah 13:17). The fulfillment of this prophecy occurred when “the Medes put their fierce fighting force at the disposal of Cyrus the Persian and were involved with him in the overthrow of Babylonia in 539 B.C.”[SUP]3[/SUP] God, using the armies of the Medes, brought an end to Babylon’s world!

God caused the stars of Babylon’s heaven to stop giving their light. Her sun became dark and her moon ceased to shine. Her “heavens and earth” removed out of their places.

These graphic and powerful images said nothing about the physical universe. Instead, they portrayed the future, dramatic overthrow of this powerful empire. Babylon’s world was in God’s hands. It would endure only as long as he determined. Then it would collapse under his fiery judgment. The symbols Isaiah used left a lasting impression of what was about to happen.
We should not imagine that astrologers in Egypt (or any other nation) witnessed a change in the physical cosmos when Babylon’s world ended.

Destruction of Egypt:

Isa 19: The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.

"The Lord riding on a swift cloud?" Was that literal my friend? Notice the "presence of God," His Shekinah glory? Did God literally return and walk on earth? No, of course not, but His presence was felt.

Eze 32: Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say unto him. . . . And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD. I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.

Ralph H. Alexander says Ezekiel delivered this funeral dirge for Egypt in March 585 B.C. . . . The carnage would be so great that it would fill every ravine and mountain (vv.5–6). It would be as if ‘a great darkness covered the land’ (vv.7–8), demonstrating that Egypt’s great sun gods were impotent to help. Cosmic collapse is a common image with earth-shaking events (cf. Joel 2:28; Acts 2). The nations who sang this funeral dirge would be stunned and horrified that Egypt had fallen in their midst (vv.9–10).

Destruction of Idumea:

Isa 34: Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Brother AH, don't take my word for it (as if you would anyway), do a Google search and read some commentaries about the above passages from men much smarter than me. We should not mistake Isaiah’s meaning and assume he was describing the end of the physical cosmos. Idumea’s world ended in a cosmic collapse, but not one astrologer in any nation closed shop.

Destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD):

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you see any similarities between Mat 24 and the other passages I quoted? This "judgment language" was very familiar to those 1st century Jews to whom Jesus spoke. They understood it to mean that the presence of Christ would return to execute divine judgment on Israel after a period of tremendous tribulation, the likes no nation had ever endured or would ever endure. You need to place yourself in their shoes and see things through their prospective as Jesus was telling them what would happen to their great nation. He wasn't speaking to you or foretelling the end of the planet. Jesus used language which had specific meaning to them and was very clear to them. You are taking your understanding of the meaning of these "cosmic disturbances" and applying your understanding to them. This is your mistake.

FYI "Clouds of Heaven" mean "angelic armies" These were seen in 70 AD as the temple was being burned. Josephus records it. Until I read Josephus' "War of the Jews", I didn't understand. Now I do.

When Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse, God’s judgment was about to destroy the world inhabited by Israel . The Mosaic age would soon finish its allotted duration; the Temple would fall. The sacrificial system instituted by Moses fifteen centuries earlier would cease. Jesus used the traditional signs of Israel’s prophets to describe these age-changing events.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

a-f,

I'm beginning to think so, YES.

Keep in mind that the Romans camped around the city for 42 months. Then the city was completely and utterly destroyed. There was no city and no temple to trample after this. According to Josephus, if you were from Jerusalem and had traveled away and returned after its demise, you wouldn't even know that you were there, you'd keep walking and think you were lost. That is how complete it's destruction was.

To be honest, I have to look at this "time, times and half a times" issue some more.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Dear Brother, please read my other posts. I've moved way beyond your line of thinking. Daniel's 70 weeks were all about the restoration and final destruction of Israel. The 70 weeks (490 years) were determined by God. He gave Israel this much time as a second chance to Israel after punishing them with their first desolation at the hands of Babylon. Because of Daniel's prayers and supplications, God relented and allowed Israel to return to Israel. They had 490 years to "get it right." This included recognizing His Son as their Messiah.

When they put Christ to death in 30 AD, (486.5 years into their 490) their fate was sealed. Their remaining 3.5 years ended when they killed Stephen, the first post-Christ martyr. Unbelieving and unrepentant Israel would endure 40 years of darkness (as they did in the wilderness). The disciples as prophets tried to teach them but they killed many of them and would not listen.

All this talk of a future world-wide "tribulation" with an AntiChrist claiming to be God in a new man-made temple is utter hogwash. The Jewish age ended in 70 AD after 1,500 years of the Mosaic age. You're right about one thing, since then we have been in the Church Age or Messianic Age since 70 AD.

Sorry Blade, there just isn't any hope for you "pre-trib" rapture folks. The world as the Jews knew it, ended in 70 AD following their great tribulation. Yet you keep waiting for a rapture that will not come and a tribulation that happened 1947 years ago. I've tried to help you guys as one who used to think as you do, but you are all a lost cause. But, I still love you all as Brothers-in-Christ, as mixed up and confused as you are.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

VCO,

There are many scholars who locate the writing prior to 70 AD, around the time of Nero. The truth is, we don't know when he wrote it. At the time of John's writing, he was the last of the original 12 left alive. All the others had been martyred either in Israel or in the nations. When does John say these things will happen? Thousands of years from now?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place...Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

"Shortly take place" and "time is near" do these phrases mean anything to you, if taken literally of course? Why "show his servants" if they would be long dead and gone?

The below is taken from this site as Wikipedia is not an authority on anything.

Was Revelation written before or after the destruction of the temple in AD 70? - Christian Research Institute

Just as it is common to describe Patmos as a barren Alcatraz, misidentify the great prostitute as the Roman Catholic Church, or identify the 144,000 as exclusively Jewish male virgins, so too it is common to contend that Revelation was written long after the destruction of the temple in AD 70. Thus, according to modern-day prophecy pundits, Revelation describes events that will likely take place in the twenty-first century rather than the first century.

First, if the apostle John were indeed writing in AD 95—long after the destruction of the temple— it seems incredible that he would make no mention whatsoever of the most apocalyptic event in Jewish history—the demolition of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple at the hands of Titus. Imagine writing a history of New York today and making no mention of the destruction of the twin towers of the World Trade Center at the hands of terrorists on September 11, 2001. Or, more directly, imagine writing a thesis on the future of terrorism in America and failing to mention the Manhattan Massacre. Consider another parallel. Imagine that you are reading a history concerning Jewish struggles in Nazi Germany and find no mention whatsoever of the Holocaust. Would it not be reasonable to suppose that this history was written prior to the outbreak of World War II? The answer is self-evident. Just as it stretches credulity to suggest that a history of the Jews in Germany would be written in the aftermath of World War II and yet make no mention of the Holocaust, so too it is unreasonable to think that Revelation was written twenty-five years after the destruction of Jerusalem and yet makes no mention of the most apocalyptic event in Jewish history.

Furthermore, those who hold that the book of Revelation was written long after the destruction of the temple in AD 70 face an even more formidable obstacle! Consider one of the most amazing prophecies in all of Scripture. Jesus is leaving the temple when his disciples call his attention to its buildings. As they gaze upon its massive stones and magnificent buildings, Jesus utters the unthinkable: “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down” (Matthew 24:2; Mark 13:2; Luke 21:6). One generation later this prophecy, no doubt still emblazoned on the tablet of their consciousness, became a vivid and horrifying reality. As noted by Josephus, the temple was doomed August 30, AD 70, “the very day on which the former temple had been destroyed by the king of Babylon.” As incredible as Christ’s prophecy and its fulfillment one generation later are, it is equally incredible to suppose that the apostle John would make no mention of it. As the student of Scripture well knows, New Testament writers were quick to highlight fulfilled prophecy. The phrase “This was to fulfill what was spoken of by the prophet” permeates the pages of Scripture. Thus, it is inconceivable that Jesus would make an apocalyptic prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple and that John would fail to mention that the prophecy was fulfilled one generation later just as Jesus had predicted it.

Finally, let me highlight an additional piece of internal evidence that should give pause to those who are overly dogmatic about the late-dating of Revelation. In Revelation 11 John says, “I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, ‘Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months’” (vv. 1–2). In context, Jesus has sent his angel “to show his servants what must soon take place.” Thus, the prophecy concerns a future event, not one that took place twenty-five years earlier.

In summary, among the reasons we can be certain that the book of Revelation was not written twenty-five years after the destruction of Jerusalem, three tower above the rest. First, just as it is unreasonable to suppose that someone writing a history of the World Trade Center in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, would fail to mention the destruction of the twin towers, so too it stretches credulity to suggest that Revelation was written in the aftermath of the devastation of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple and yet makes no mention of this apocalypse. Additionally, if John is writing in AD 95, it is incredible to suppose he would not mention the fulfillment of Christ’s most improbable and apocalyptic vision. Finally, New Testament documents—including the book of Revelation— speak of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple intact at the time they were written. If Revelation was written before AD 70, it is reasonable to assume that the vision given to John was meant to reveal the apocalyptic events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem—events that were still in John’s future but are in our past. This, of course, does not presuppose that all the prophecies in Revelation have already been fulfilled. Just as thoughtful Christians should distance themselves from the fully futurist fallacy, they should disavow a predominantly preterist (i.e., past) perspective.

For further study, see Hank Hanegraaff, The Apocalypse Code: Find Out What the Bible Really Says about the End Times and Why It Matters Today (Nashville:Thomas Nelson,2007).

abcdef · May 9, 2017

PlainWord said:

Now understand, that the 7 trumpets are the time that follows the dest of Jerusalem in 70 ad.

The 7th trumpet completes the story of the little scroll that was opened by Jesus.

The story of Israel is told,

From the rejection of the Kingdom, until the dest of Jeru., is the seals.

From the dest of Jeru., until the 2nd/last resurrection/rapture, the 7th trumpet, last trumpet, is the trumpets, End of this world.

This complete story, seals and trumpets, is the story of Israel until the end of this world.

True

Where is the other 3 1/2?

Dan 12, is the key. Think hard, focus, about what the angel said about the 3 1/2ts and the power of the holy people being scattered.

Is this time period,

1. 3 1/2 literal years only, at the dest of Jerusalem? 70 ad., centuries away?

2. 3 1/2ts, Which is half of the times of the gentiles. Which would be the time from Babylon until 70 ad.? (holy people scattered), half of the statue of Daniel?

Brass to iron - Rome invades Israel,

70 ad

Legs split in 234 ad east/west,

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

Interesting... I will give this serious consideration.

What other 3.5? Where is the 7 year tribulation of Israel taught?

VCO · May 9, 2017

Laish said:

Is this enough different sources to suite you?

VCO · May 9, 2017

PlainWord said:

Is that related to the Da Vinci Code?

MattforJesus · May 9, 2017

2nicee said:

Mid-tribulation does sound good for the Bible says the saints cannot be united with Christ until there is a falling away first(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4),which is when the world will not accept the truth of the Bible,because of the unified religious system,that states that all religions are valid for spiritual evolution,and they will want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts,which they believe they can get through nature(2 Timothy 4:2-4),with an interpretation of the Bible,Islam,and Judaism,based on that format,and Christianity will rapidly decline from impacting the world with the truth,which will set them on course for the coming beast kingdom.

And the man of sin claims to be God.The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East(Daniel 9:26-27),and will work from there in the world,and will push the new age movement,and the harnessing of nature,for spiritual evolution,for three and one half years,and then claim to be God by harnessing the power of nature,and achieving power to evolve spiritually on a level that no other person can attain,for he exalts himself above all people,and regards no god(Daniel 11:36-38).

For the three and one half years repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world,so the saints will remain on earth.

So mid-tribulation sounds good,for the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin claims to be God,which is in the middle of the 7 years period.

But.

When he claims to be God,he has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and has power to rule for three and one half years,in which he makes war against the saints,and prevails against them,and God says do not fight back,for however you fight back it will come back on you,for then you are acting like them(Revelation 13:1-10).

And in these places.

The saints shall be given on to his hands for three and one half years(Daniel 7:23-25).

He shall destroy the mighty and holy people(Daniel 8:23-25).

And when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people,then the resurrection shall happen,all those who remain from the great tribulation(Daniel 12:1-7).

The saints will go through the 7 years period,although some will not make it to the end of the tribulation,for the Beast will persecute all who hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

VCO · May 9, 2017

2nicee said:

Here is the biggest flaw with both the mid-trib, and post-trib theories.

Matthew 25:10-13 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

Mark 13:32-33 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “Now concerning that day or hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven nor the Son—except the Father.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Watch! Be alert! For you don’t know when the time is ⌊coming⌋.

Daniel 9:27 (HCSB) [SUP]
27 [/SUP] He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

A covenant is the term they used in Bible Times to refer to a Peace Treaty, and the term "week" is a week of years. The
"he" in that verse, most Churches agree is the Antichrist, while the "many" is Israel and her enemies. The Antichrist is the first Rider of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse who conquers carrying a bow and no arrows. That is symbolism for the reality that he will be invited to rule, thus he conquers peacefully. For what it is worth, I believe that the Kingdom he will rule over is the Revival of the Roman Empire, which is the feet and toes of iron mixed with clay, on the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. That symbolizes a revival of the Roman Empire that is not strong as the original, because of the many rulers involved (ten toes). Yes I think the European Union is that very multi-nation confederacy; but they have not chosen a single RULER to take charge YET.

Now here is my point. WHEN he takes over the E.U., and when he establishes a Peace Treaty with Israel and her enemies; that signing ceremony will be HEADLINE NEWS on every News Channel on this entire planet. Everyone will KNOW what day is the exact middle of that week of years, and exactly what day that Seven Year Treaty ends. THUS, the mid-trib and post-trib theories contradict the "Now concerning that day or hour no one knows ". THEREFORE, ONLY a pre-trib Calling out of the Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, maintains the FACT that no one knows the day or the hour.

In case you doubt if Israel is going to build a Third Temple in the near future, these videos should convince you that Israel most certainly is preparing to rebuild the Temple and will at the earliest possible time:

[video=youtube;7Hng2mVVjJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hng2mVVjJs[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsEMjpZZoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6prYdPPPaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICu2C02sKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXaIBuRO3I

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

VCO said:

Don't know. It was a link at the end of the article. Didn't follow it.

Gabriel2020 · May 9, 2017

One thing is for sure, when the anti-christ announce that he is God, if we are here,a bell should go off in your head.,and you will know that the time has come.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

VCO,

There are definitely those in Israel who want to build a 3rd temple and have been preparing for it. But I seriously doubt God will allow it as He made clear that His Son, and not a temple is the way for atonement and salvation.

PlainWord · May 9, 2017

Gabriel2020 said:

What antichrist?

abcdef · May 9, 2017

PlainWord said:

The 7 times are not 7 literal years, as far as I can tell.

---

The 7 times are first shown in Daniel 4:16, 23,

Exactly how long is the 7 times of king Neb.?

7 years? 7 months? 5 years? 4 months? Can we tell? I don't know.

1. It is a time with a beginning, and a time with an end.

2. It is a time set by God.

3. It may be a time that is not understood by men.

4. It may be a time that does not "match" the time of men.

It says 7 times, but it may be only, say, 3 months or 9 mos., or a year in the time of men. (in this case of Daniel 4)

--

The angel in Dan. 12, says 3 1/2 times till the power is scattered.

There should be another 3 1/2 ts somewhere.

----

This brings us to the dest of Jerusalem.

Is the 3 1/2 years, that it took for Rome to destroy Jerusalem, one of the 3 1/2 times? If so, which one?

If it is one of the 3 1/2 times, where is the other 3 1/2ts, to make the 7 times complete?

---

Daniel 7:25,

The horn has power over Israel for 3 1/2ts.

But note V 12, the other kingdoms are prolonged for a season and a time, after the fall of of the Roman Empire.

So the Roman Empire fell in 476 ad (west), but the other beast nations have continued for 1400 years to this day.

This shows that the 3 1/2ts are not years.

88 · May 9, 2017

abcdef said:

The 7 times are not 7 literal years, as far as I can tell.

---

The 7 times are first shown in Daniel 4:16, 23,

Exactly how long is the 7 times of king Neb.?

7 years? 7 months? 5 years? 4 months? Can we tell? I don't know.

1. It is a time with a beginning, and a time with an end.

2. It is a time set by God.

3. It may be a time that is not understood by men.

4. It may be a time that does not "match" the time of men.

It says 7 times, but it may be only, say, 3 months or 9 mos., or a year in the time of men. (in this case of Daniel 4)

--

The angel in Dan. 12, says 3 1/2 times till the power is scattered.

There should be another 3 1/2 ts somewhere.

----

This brings us to the dest of Jerusalem.

Is the 3 1/2 years, that it took for Rome to destroy Jerusalem, one of the 3 1/2 times? If so, which one?

If it is one of the 3 1/2 times, where is the other 3 1/2ts, to make the 7 times complete?

---

Daniel 7:25,

The horn has power over Israel for 3 1/2ts.

But note V 12, the other kingdoms are prolonged for a season and a time, after the fall of of the Roman Empire.

So the Roman Empire fell in 476 ad (west), but the other beast nations have continued for 1400 years to this day.

This shows that the 3 1/2ts are not years.

*** 7 seasons=7 years...

Ahwatukee · May 9, 2017

Good evening abcdef,

The seven years will be a literal 7 years. The decree that was given upon Israel and Jerusalem was/is for seventy seven year periods, which are divided up into three parts:

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = The Messiah cut of (Christ crucified)

1 seven year period = The ruler establishes the seven years, then in the middle sets up the abomination

The 7 sevens and 62 sevens were fulfilled literally and therefore, the last seven years will also be fulfilled literally.

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