The Rapture

[Bladerunner]

You are so confused, you totally amaze me:

Did you even stop to think about WHAT YEAR John wrote the Book of Revelation, while exiled to the Island of Patmos?



So much for the WILD THEORY that the tribulation took place in 70 A.D.

You also apparently do not believe what the Scriptures literally say:

Revelation 3:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Revelation 6:12-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then I saw Him open the sixth seal. A violent earthquake occurred; the sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair; the entire moon became like blood;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] the stars of heaven fell to the earth as a fig tree drops its unripe figs when shaken by a high wind;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] the sky separated like a scroll being rolled up; and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the military commanders, the rich, the powerful, and every slave and free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] because the great day of Their wrath has come! And who is able to stand?”


Revelation 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


NO, JESUS was not talking about 70 A.D. when He said:



Matthew 24:21-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again!
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.



Whoever taught you that the Great Tribulation was the events of 70 A.D., CLEARLY was a False Teacher.


Now, I have to ask, HAS NO ONE EVER TAUGHT YOU TO READ THE CONTEXT, before you decide what the verse means? That is oh so TRUE about Mat. 24:34; and you only have to read the preceding verse to discover that HE was not talking about the Generation to whom HE was talking to, but rather, the GENERATION IN THE FUTURE, that in reality sees these EVENTS that I pointed out, actually happening:


Matthew 24:33-34 (HCSB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near—at the door!
[SUP]34 [/SUP] I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.




Now if you really want to learn how to properly interpret the Prophecies of the End Times, here is a link to the best Tape Series that I have ever heard on the Book of Revelation. They are sermons by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr., and he is very thorough in his teaching verse by verse. Therefore the series is 36 hours long, and to encourage you to listen to ALL of it, I personally have listened to all 36 hours, four times.

https://www.gty.org/library/resources/sermons-library/scripture/1?book=66&chapter=All

VCO,,I think you will find that Jesus was talking about the 70AD event and the End of times event. Check it out,,, there are many many scholars that are in agreement. Matthew being Jewish wrote from the Jewish perspective while Luke (a doctor) wrote from the 'Son of Man' perspective. compare them... I think it enlighten you.

 

[88]

*** 7 seasons=7 years...

***the Lord "seasoned" him for 7 years and he came out tender...

 

[abcdef]

Good evening abcdef,



The seven years will be a literal 7 years. The decree that was given upon Israel and Jerusalem was/is for seventy seven year periods, which are divided up into three parts:

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = The Messiah cut of (Christ crucified)

1 seven year period = The ruler establishes the seven years, then in the middle sets up the abomination

The 7 sevens and 62 sevens were fulfilled literally and therefore, the last seven years will also be fulfilled literally.

Daniel 9:25, says the Messiah will come at the 69th week. Begin His ministry.

V 26, says that the Messiah will be cut off, after that, 69 1/2 weeks, 3 1/2 years into the ministry. Yes?

The last 7 literal years would be from the beginning of Jesus' ministry, until the gentiles are brought in, 37 ad.

The years of Daniel were fulfilled.
--

The 7 times are a different time period.

They span a time from the captivity in Babylon until Israel is restored to Jerusalem, 1,000's of years.

The same time as the metal man of Dan. 2.

The statue is finished, and the 7 times are completed, since Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

The great time of trouble for Israel is over, now that the Roman iron beast nation has lost it's power over Israel.

--

 

[abcdef]

*** 7 seasons=7 years...

Spring, summer, fall, winter, spring, summer, fall.......7 seasons, 1 3/4 years.

 

[PlainWord]

Good evening abcdef,



The seven years will be a literal 7 years. The decree that was given upon Israel and Jerusalem was/is for seventy seven year periods, which are divided up into three parts:

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = The Messiah cut of (Christ crucified)

1 seven year period = The ruler establishes the seven years, then in the middle sets up the abomination

The 7 sevens and 62 sevens were fulfilled literally and therefore, the last seven years will also be fulfilled literally.

Almost. Here's the correct way to look at the 70 weeks (490 literal years):

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = Until Messiah appears on the scene and starts ministry

1 seven year period = 3.5 years to crucifixion, 3.5 years to first martyr, Stephen

The Prince to Come, Titus, and his destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are additional information provided as judgment for failing to "make an end of sins," etc, as required as a condition to be restored to their Land.

There is no 2,000 year gap taught as it wouldn't be 70 weeks anymore. Why would God skip over the pending 70 AD judgment that desolated Jerusalem and scattered the people just 40 years later to discuss a future desolation judgment thousands of years into the future? Why would He ignore the immediate judgment which was to dished out for killing His Son which was proximate to the subject matter?

 

[VCO]

Don't know. It was a link at the end of the article. Didn't follow it.

What I was referring to was the fact that the Da Vinci Code was PURE FICTION.

 

[VCO]

VCO,,I think you will find that Jesus was talking about the 70AD event and the End of times event. Check it out,,, there are many many scholars that are in agreement. Matthew being Jewish wrote from the Jewish perspective while Luke (a doctor) wrote from the 'Son of Man' perspective. compare them... I think it enlighten you.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”


And here you are.


https://www.gty.org/library/resources/sermons-library/scripture/1?book=66&chapter=All

Listen to the first sermon at least, if you really want learn what we teach and BELIEVE with our whole heart.

 

[VCO]

VCO,

There are definitely those in Israel who want to build a 3rd temple and have been preparing for it. But I seriously doubt God will allow it as He made clear that His Son, and not a temple is the way for atonement and salvation.

WOW, how little you know about the genuine FAITH of O.T. Saints.


Romans 4:2-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.


Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

 

[PlainWord]

According to Josephus:

1. AND thus was Jerusalem taken, in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, on the eighth day of the month Gorpeius [Elul]. It had been taken five times before, though this was the second time of its desolation; for Shishak, the king of Egypt, and after him Antiochus, and after him Pompey, and after them Sosius and Herod, took the city, but still preserved it; but before all these, the king of Babylon conquered it, and made it desolate, one thousand four hundred and sixty-eight years and six months after it was built. But he who first built it. Was a potent man among the Canaanites, and is in our own tongue called [Melchisedek], the Righteous King, for such he really was; on which account he was [there] the first priest of God, and first built a temple [there], and called the city Jerusalem, which was formerly called Salem. However, David, the king of the Jews, ejected the Canaanites, and set-tied his own people therein. It was demolished entirely by the Babylonians, four hundred and seventy-seven years and six months after him. And from king David, who was the first of the Jews who reigned therein, to this destruction under Titus, were one thousand one hundred and seventy-nine years; but from its first building, till this last destruction, were two thousand one hundred and seventy-seven years; yet hath not its great antiquity, nor its vast riches, nor the diffusion of its nation over all the habitable earth, nor the greatness of the veneration paid to it on a religious account, been sufficient to preserve it from being destroyed. And thus ended the siege of Jerusalem.

 

[PlainWord]

WOW, how little you know about the genuine FAITH of O.T. Saints.


Romans 4:2-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.


Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

What do you mean? Do you not know that when Christ died and was resurrected that a new way to salvation became available thereby obsoleting the old sacrificial system? Do you think God in any way wants to bring back the old way and disregard His Son's sacrifice? Do you think God will give in to those in Israel who want to restore the old priestly system?

There is no prophesy of a third temple to be built. Christ made clear, He would rebuild the temple in three days and it would be a temple not made with hands.

 

[PlainWord]

What I was referring to was the fact that the Da Vinci Code was PURE FICTION.

I don't think the link was to the DaVinci code, right? It was to the "Apocalyptic Code" and who knows what that is?

 

[Bladerunner]

Daniel 9:25, says the Messiah will come at the 69th week. Begin His ministry.

V 26, says that the Messiah will be cut off, after that, 69 1/2 weeks, 3 1/2 years into the ministry. Yes?

The last 7 literal years would be from the beginning of Jesus' ministry, until the gentiles are brought in, 37 ad.

The years of Daniel were fulfilled.
--

The 7 times are a different time period.

They span a time from the captivity in Babylon until Israel is restored to Jerusalem, 1,000's of years.

The same time as the metal man of Dan. 2.

The statue is finished, and the 7 times are completed, since Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

The great time of trouble for Israel is over, now that the Roman iron beast nation has lost it's power over Israel.

--

abcdef....Daniel 9:24-27 does NOT say anything about the coming of the LORD Jesus, You are reading it all wrong .

 

[Bladerunner]

Almost. Here's the correct way to look at the 70 weeks (490 literal years):

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = Until Messiah appears on the scene and starts ministry

1 seven year period = 3.5 years to crucifixion, 3.5 years to first martyr, Stephen

The Prince to Come, Titus, and his destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are additional information provided as judgment for failing to "make an end of sins," etc, as required as a condition to be restored to their Land.

There is no 2,000 year gap taught as it wouldn't be 70 weeks anymore. Why would God skip over the pending 70 AD judgment that desolated Jerusalem and scattered the people just 40 years later to discuss a future desolation judgment thousands of years into the future? Why would He ignore the immediate judgment which was to dished out for killing His Son which was proximate to the subject matter?

wrong 70 Years, but then again........?

 

[samuel23]

There are two problems. The first one is that there are places in the bible that are hard to reconcile with some other places in the bible. The second problem is that there are people who love a particular position so intensely so that they reject obvious truth that they do not like. When you mix both of these together in a discussion it becomes one daunting task to produce the actual truth. Take Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, it is obvious from the bible and history that Jesus described TWO events, one that would happen around 70ad, and the other would happen at the end of the age. So one has ALREADY happened, and the other is yet to happen.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello samuel23,

The second problem is that there are people who love a particular position so intensely so that they reject obvious truth that they do not like.

Though I am sure that you are correct, there are also those who are adamant about their position because the other interpretations ignore other scriptures related to end-time events and pose too many obvious problems. For example, Matt.24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are all regarding the signs that would lead up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

As I have proclaimed so many times, the on-going problem is that expositors are not recognizing the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events. As long as one holds to them as being the same event, their interpretation of end-time events will always be in error.

In regards to the destruction of the temple, nothing more was revealed about that event after the disciples asked Jesus the question "when will all this happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” Jesus' focus was on the signs of his coming and the end of the age.

When anyone interprets the gathering of the church as being the same as the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as found in Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21, they are stepping all over the following scriptural truths:

* That the church is not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath - 1 Thes.5:9

* That Jesus suffered God's wrath on our behalf and therefore rescues believers from God's wrath - (1 Thes.1:10)

* That Jesus said that he would keep believers [out of] God's wrath (Rev.3:10)

* Believers have been reconciled to God and have been credited with righteousness

What people do in order to circumvent the above, is that they utilize already existing apologetics or they create some. They pacify God's wrath, relocate it and minimize its severity and magnitude and reduce it to only being 35 or 45 days long, which is just ridiculous because the 5th trumpet alone is 5 months in duration. In fact, the majority of the book of Revelation is given over to the events of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and all related information. The wrath of God are the "things which must soon take place" which is stated right in the first verse of chapter 1.

Until expositors understand that the gathering of the church as being a separate event from when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, they will always err in their interpretation of end-time events. And don't even get me started on amillennialists and preterists!

 

[abcdef]

abcdef....Daniel 9:24-27 does NOT say anything about the coming of the LORD Jesus, You are reading it all wrong .

I'm not sure what you mean.

Jesus began His ministry at the beginning of the 69th week, the Messiah, v 25, Yes?

This is when He came to Israel?

The next time will be "at His coming", 1 Cor 15:23-24

yes/no?

 

[abcdef]

Almost. Here's the correct way to look at the 70 weeks (490 literal years):

7 seven year periods = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = Until Messiah appears on the scene and starts ministry

1 seven year period = 3.5 years to crucifixion, 3.5 years to first martyr, Stephen

The Prince to Come, Titus, and his destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are additional information provided as judgment for failing to "make an end of sins," etc, as required as a condition to be restored to their Land.

There is no 2,000 year gap taught as it wouldn't be 70 weeks anymore. Why would God skip over the pending 70 AD judgment that desolated Jerusalem and scattered the people just 40 years later to discuss a future desolation judgment thousands of years into the future? Why would He ignore the immediate judgment which was to dished out for killing His Son which was proximate to the subject matter?

I totally agree with you.

But think.....What are the prophecies about the time After the dest of Jerusalem?

There MUST be SOME, somewhere.

Could it be that Jesus indicated, that there would be a time AFTER the dest of Jeru? After the scattering of the power of the holy people (Dan. 12:6-7)?

What would the time After the dest of Jerusalem be called?

The times of the gentiles? Lk 21:20-24, 24. When the Israel is trampled (controlled) by the Roman iron legs, in the statue of Dan 2?

What about, the time of the 4th beast nation, that has power over the saints of Israel in Dan 7:25?

What about the time that the 2 witnesses spend outside of Jerusalem until they are restored to Jerusalem, the temple is tread under foot. ToGs.

The woman in the wilderness, Rev 12? She is in the wilderness of the gentiles until her times are up, and then she returns home to Jerusalem?

They are all describing (roughly) the time period from the dest of Jeru in 70 ad until 1967, when Israel was restored to control of Jerusalem. The 2nd, 3 1/2ts.

 

[VCO]

I don't think the link was to the DaVinci code, right? It was to the "Apocalyptic Code" and who knows what that is?

In my opinion it is pure fiction, just like the Da Vinci Code.

 

[Rockrz]

True Christians will not see God's wrath poured out since we are not appointed unto wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

Those scoffers that say Christians will go thru God's wrath to somehow 'purify' the Church are speaking for themselves... The Blood of Jesus makes me clean... but maybe some are not trusting in His Blood so they need to be slapped around awhile

 

[VCO]

What antichrist?

1 John 2:18 (NIV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

HE IS NOT THE ROMAN RULER THAT DESTROYED THE TEMPLE IN 70 A.D.

Date

The letter is difficult to date with precision, but factors such as (1) evidence from early Christian writers (Irenaeus and Clement of Alexandria), (2) the early form of Gnosticism reflected in the denunciations of the letter and (3) indications of the advanced age of John suggest the end of the first century. Since the author of 1 John seems to build on concepts and themes found in the fourth Gospel (see 1Jn 2:7–11), it is reasonable to date the letter somewhere between a.d. 85 and 95, after the writing of the Gospel, which may have been written c. 85 (see Introduction to John: Date).

The International Bible Society.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

This is reflected in 2 Thessalonians, which has Paul claiming to work for his keep - in contrast to the earlier Pauline Epistle, 2 Corinthians 11:8-9, where Paul said that he received wages from other churches and sustenance from the Macedonians even while he was in Corinth, but asked no support from the Corinthians. Other references in 2 Thessalonians confirm a late century date, suggesting that the epistle was written later than 75 CE.
When was 2 Thessalonians written

THUS THIS ANTICHRIST is one that will take over the a FUTURE THIRD TEMPLE, because the 2nd Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and 2 Thessalonians was written some time AFTER the year 75.

Thus He is the Beast with 10 horns symbolizing a Ruler over a Confederacy of Nations, same as the feet with 10 toes on the Statue, made of Iron mixed with clay, in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. ANTICHRIST IS A FUTURE RULER THAT WILL COME TO POWER ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS THE THIRD TEMPLE IS BUILT.