Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Ariel82]

I did not know you are a Calvinist

Didn't know you were one either.

So far no one but ForthAngel claims the title (though he prefers reformed Baptist) Rereading thread and at this point Marano also holds to TULIP.

Most reformed churches hold to the 5 solas.

Reformed is a titled used by folks who aren't Calvinist too. Most protestant churches consider themselves Reformed or started by reformers.

Do you hold the 5 TULIP petals?

Everyone else who has posted in the thread aren't Calvinist.

At post #67

P4T is probably Calvinist...trying to identify anyone else since Depleted mention it was hard to tell the difference.

 

[trofimus]

Didn't know you were one either.

So far no one but ForthAngel claims the title (though he prefers reformed Baptist) Rereading thread and at this point Marano also holds to TULIP.

Most reformed churches hold to the 5 solas.

Reformed is a titled used by folks who aren't Calvinist too. Most protestant churches consider themselves Reformed or started by reformers.

Do you hold the 5 TULIP petals?

Everyone else who has posted in the thread aren't Calvinist.

At post #67

P4T is probably Calvinist...trying to identify anyone else since Depleted mention it was hard to tell the difference.

I believe in the TULIP, but I am not what would American Calvinists call "a Calvinist", probably. I am more to Czech/German views. I am not sure. I was called a Molinist in this thread

 

[Ariel82]

We never protested to follow a man. We protested to follow the Lord. The Reformation was about bringing back what the Bible says, not what a dominion says. I have no idea how Lutherans work today. I do know the core beliefs Calvin and Luther had are what caused the revolution called "Reformation." They weren't the first, nor the only, to go back to what God said over what the current church-state said, but they came along in time for the printing press, so finally people could read other people's ideas. Finally, people could hear what God says over what the going price for an indulgence was.

People call us Calvinists, because that's a world they think they understand. People call me a Yankee because that's a word they think they understand. In general, I am both. In other ways, I am neither. Don't divide the Reformed into unnecessary groups. The Five Solas meant something besides the words themselves. It was a call for unity, not division.

Exactly the stuff in bold.

The Reformation was bigger than Calvin and the Five TULIP petals. It was about the Five solas.

Kayla's questions got lost in the discussion.

So really folks who hold the 5 TULIP petals are the only ones who qualify as Calvinist.

Do you hold them?

 

[Ariel82]

Quote "How does that not mean he chose others to be not-saved? Granted, they deserve the punishment as much as the ones he set free, but he did not chose them, which, in itself is his choice, right? To not make a choice is a choice."

Yep,right here is what hangs me up.This is where we part ways on belief.

Found a Kayla question...any Calvinist willing to answer it?

 

[Ariel82]

Also what happens to Non elect babies?

Depleted says she doesn't know.

I know a Baptist preacher tell me that babies get a free pass until the age of accountability.

Is there a universal Calvinistic answer?

How do you understand and explain limited atonement?

PS. I thought you were practicing not fighting Lynn? I read your post after making mine, but I will respect your wishes and not post your forbbiden word, since it bugs you so much.

 

[trofimus]

Its simply logical that when God chose some to live, the rest is chosen not to live... I am not sure what to discuss about it.

 

[Ariel82]

Its simply logical that when God chose some to live, the rest is chosen not to live... I am not sure what to discuss about it.

But ForthAngel says he doesn't believe that God choses people to hell.

How does that work?

 

[trofimus]

But ForthAngel says he doesn't believe that God choses people to hell.

How does that work?

I do not know, both Calvin and Augustin believed in double predestination.

 

[Depleted]

I will try and explain it as best as I can:
Partial regeneration or Prevenient grace allows people to do good works and make godly decisions and this is a GIFT from God. Otherwise men would just selfishly do their own thing.

However this just places people under the Law.

Justifying grace is when God grants the person the faith to believe that there is no good works or anything they can do to save themselves. That salvation is by grace alone through faith in Jesus redeeming work on the cross. It also involves turning away from sin and towards God.

The next type of grace is sanctifying grace that allows people to walk holy lives day by day through the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I have never read or seen a sermon of everyone receiving justifying faith or "saving faith" and its given as God wills.

Without justifying grace, you can't have sanctifying grace.

Regeneration is rebirth. It's very much like first-birth. No one gets to chose if they're born, and no one resolves or does anything that qualifies as "birthing myself."

Think about the implications of "partial-birth abortion." The baby is coming, but it's not out yet.

And, if you have any memories of giving birth for your kids, would you really want them to have any say or effort in it? One thing consistent with all humans is we don't like change. I would imagine that if I had a say in being born, I'd stay put. I don't know what's out there. Scary. But where I was was all nice and comfy. Free food. Quiet time. If I wanted to move, I could. Nice and dark in there. Mommy is there 100% of the time. Why in the world would I want to change that?

And, if it was any of my effort to leave, even partially, my head might peeks out, but I'm not sure the rest of me wants to come. BRIGHT! So bright, even with my eyes closed. Cold! I'm used to 98.6 degrees and you're dumping me into 70 degrees, maybe. People are yelling something. Mom's screaming. Very scary. Dry! Unbelievably dry! I was comfortable. Now my head is in something bright, cold, dry, and noisy, while the rest of me is squished, but at least it's not cold and dry.

That's what I don't get about partial regeneration. Whose doing the regenerating? Whose doing the birthing? Because it's not the baby.

 

[Depleted]

Reformed Justification by Philip Graham Rykan, he took over the 10th Presbyterian Church when James M. Boice died.

Whoot-whoot! Shout out to our church!!!

(Well, it was our church before we couldn't go to church. Right up the street from us, if you don't mind a two mile walk. lol)

 

[Ariel82]

I don't believe regeneration is the same as rebirth or to be born again by the Holy Spirit.

To me it's the same as when God in the Old testament sent prophets to warn people. Totally different then when He sent His Holy Spirit to live in the hearts of His people.

Again we are back to defining terms.

Does anyone else have a different definition for "regeneration"?

I define it as when God grace moves into the world to bring about good. However "good" does not equal salvation but more God's providence for all people.

 

[Marano]

But ForthAngel says he doesn't believe that God choses people to hell.

How does that work?

God is just and holy when He doesn't extend grace to someone, He doesn't do anyone wrong by not extending grace to them. Those people still go to hell because of their own sin, it's their responsibility.

God in His mercy saves some of those sinners going to hell, it's by grace that we are saved, we didn't deserve salvation, it wasn't for anything good that God saw in us, for before we were even born, He had elected us, before we had done anything good or bad.

I think that's a good explanation as to how God saves. And that's what our focus should be on, God's salvation.

 

[Depleted]

We follow this one too..

Exactly! The Nicene Creed IS the Christian's Creed. Everything else is debatable.

 

[Depleted]

The Wesley's opposed predestination and sent off some snarky letters to George Whitefield pertaining to this (one or the other or both, cannot recall at this time). They are the first of the "angry arminians" and we see this same attitude from those of this theological camp today.

The Wesley's hated the teachings, hence their following, and note my signature. I believe iirc this would include hatred toward Sovereign election.

They may have claimed to be Reformed, but that just isn't true. They also had some strange goings on at their meetings. Weird manifestations that are unbiblical. Whitefield also saw these at his and at some point denounced them as not of God. He was correct but these manifestations have carried over into today's false gospel camps.

Well, then we caught up, because you do snarky and angry very well.

And I am very good at snarky too. (Can hit angry. But not as much as people think. lol)

 

[Ariel82]

I wonder if he will answer Kayla question about these "strange going on" he mentions?

if he has any proof or just repeating heresy?

Or if people may believe that these "strange manifestations" include miracles of healing or speaking in tongues?

But that might just be a can of worms...which by the way, I did not open, Lynn.

 

[kaylagrl]

So Im going to ask you all to check out the link. Its about Wesley and its pretty much what I believe. But I wanted to know what differences we have as you read the few points made.Dont you think we are all closer to the same belief than we think?


https://jamespedlar.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/john-wesley-on-predestination/

 

[kaylagrl]

Hey! Dont leave yet,I still have questions.

 

[ForthAngel]

Oh, come on now! Prove "right to defend self" biblically.

Let's face it. You were scolded, didn't like it, so attacked. Get over self, and get back to the subject matter. I don't even see "right to defend self" in The Constitutions, once more the Bible.

If someone misrepresents what Reformed Theology is, show how that is wrong. If someone misrepresents you? Grow up and move on! Or, feel free to start a thread on "Representing Myself."

Don't make me pull this car over.

Scolded? Not even lol. Yeah I do have that right. By defending my position, I am showing them how their misrepresentation and lies are wrong. Do you not realize that this misrepresentation and lying about us has been constant on every thread we get on for a while now? What's your problem? I didn't start that crap and am getting pretty sick of the morons who dunno how to read simple sentences and turn around and lie about what I clearly said I didn't believe. I'm sick of this white-knighting by people who know it's wrong as well and won't take a stand but rather cower down behind those perpetuating it.

 

[Johnny_B]

Beware of Calvinism - Pentecostal Apologetics

Side By Side Comparison Lens - Patheos

The first article has already been shown here as misrepresenting the Reformed/Calvinistism on evangelism, it's a straw man that has been set a flame in this thread. You really need to follow the thread if you are going to post anti-Refomed/Calvinist articles.

The second article makes Pentecostals/Charismatics (Charismatics not listed) look bad, here's a quote "Pentecostals elevate the Book of Acts and parts of Paul's first Letter to the Corinthians; they interpret the Old Testament as part of a continuum of supernatural activity that occurs today." They have given the word of faith movements view of the Bible as how Pentecostals. view the Bible. Which is not true, if they would of read "The Foundations of Pentecostal Theology" they would of known that, Van Cleave and Duffy were both part of the Azusa Street Revival. And if they would of done there homework, there are more and more believers that hold to the Biblical view of election/salvation, that also believe in the gifts for today. With two books on Systematic Theology being written, by those that have the Reformed/Calvinist view of election/salvation that believe in the gifts, who are Grudem and Rodman.

 

[lonestar26]

Scolded? Not even lol. Yeah I do have that right. By defending my position, I am showing them how their misrepresentation and lies are wrong. Do you not realize that this misrepresentation and lying about us has been constant on every thread we get on for a while now? What's your problem? I didn't start that crap and am getting pretty sick of the morons who dunno how to read simple sentences and turn around and lie about what I clearly said I didn't believe. I'm sick of this white-knighting by people who know it's wrong as well and won't take a stand but rather cower down behind those perpetuating it.

Morons, crap, cower, defend, I, my, sick, us,

You cannot make this stuff up. Squeeze da fruit a little bit and you see what juice comes out.

When you can come to full age and not play the victim, I might have an interest in hearing you out.