Not By Works

[FranC]

No i was simply implying that repentance is a Good works that must come from the believer... even if it repenting for not doing enough..

It was you who took offence not me i only said repent.. Now dont get me wrong here but to repent is to be humble too...

So where is your humblesness if ye say you are my brother why do you get mad at being asked to repent...

HI Jimbo

It depends on what you mean by "repent".

If you mean "feel sorry for", then you're absolutely correct.

If you mean what "repent" REALLY means, then you have to watch how you use that word.

A believer only REPENTS ONE TIME in his life.
Repent means to turn from, to change, to go in a different direction.

SO...

You repent ONE TIME when you decide to follow God.
Before you were walking in the direction of satan...
Then you REPENT...

You turn around and go the other way.
NOW you're walking toward God. You're STILL WALKING TOWARD GO even when you sin.

That's just a FALL, not a turning around again and going toward satan again.
See?

So when you're walking toward God, you SIN, you fall, you feel sorry for your sin, you get up and keep going.

Sometimes many use the word repent to mean "feel sorry for" and that could cause some confusion.

When speaking to people who know their faith, I'd suggest not using the word repent unless it's what you really mean.

 

[FranC]

Okay, where's the good works in all this arguing?

Time for a jelly roll gum drop.

We're not arguing...
We're discussing.

 

[Chris1975]

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strong's #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strong's #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.

Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

Merging threads now:

3393. miasma ►Strong's Concordance

miasma: a stain, defilement
​

Original Word: μίασμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: miasma
Phonetic Spelling: (mee'-as-mah)
Short Definition: pollution, defilement
Definition: pollution, defilement; a stain.HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 3393 míasma(from 3392 /miaínō) – pollution (spiritual stain) that results from vice, i.e. spiritually contaminating a person (used only in 2 Pet 2:20). See 3392 (miainō).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
from miainó
Definition
a stain, defilement
NASB Translation
defilements (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3393: μίασμα

μίασμα, μιασματος, τό (μιαίνω), "that which defiles (cf. καύχημα, 2); defilement" (Vulg.coinquinatio): tropically, μιάσματα τοῦ κόσμου, vices the foulness of which contaminates one in his contact with the ungodly mass of mankind, 2 Peter 2:20. (Tragg., Antiphanes, Demosthenes, Polybius, Josephus, Plutarch; the Sept., Leviticus 7:8 (18); Jeremiah 39:34 (); Judith 9:2; 1 Macc. 13:50.)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

pollution, foul deedFrom miaino ("miasma"); (morally) foulness (properly, the effect) -- pollution.

see GREEK miaino

Forms and Transliterations

μίασμά μιασματα μιάσματα μιασμάτων miasmata miásmataLinks

Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts




When something is contaminated, it needs the washing of the Word. How is it that this is possible without first believing on Christ? Or do you thing that a mere mental assertion is sufficient to wash clean the stains of all of your historical sins? Your theology is flawed. A defilement or contamination affects the vessel itself. This milk is sour. This water is poisoned.

Therefore the only way for this person alluded to above to have been cleaned in the first place is through Jesus. In particular the blood of Jesus. Which is only received through faith. Or are you alluding to a partial work of the cross?

Then secondly, if they were not saved in the first place, then why would it say in verse 20 that they would be worse off than the beginning? Because they knew the Lordship, and knew the Savior (verse 20) and then having known Him, rejected the way and were overcome again. This means there WAS deliverance at some point. And THEN they are overcome again. Deliverance is NOT possible without Christ (and nobody on CC would dare to make that statement, in either camp).

So the scriptures are plain for all to see.

 

[Chris1975]

The problem with 2 Peter 2 v20-22 for the Osassers is this. They have to redefine who is a believer to who isnt. But the scriptures here are clear that they escaped. Now how did they escape? By their own effort, or by Christ? THIS THEY CANNOT ANSWER. Because if they say own effort, then HOW is this possible? If they say Christ, the HOW is it possible to say so and then accede that these people fell away again.

So they are left with trying to redefine words and intentions in scripture.

The scriptures are plain for all to see.

 

[BillG]

I agree with Chris.
God will not force you into heaven.
You have to WANT to go there till the very end.

Could you explain 2 Peter 2:20-22 ?

Someone escapes the defilement of the world by the knowledge of the Lord ...... They are saved

THEN they are AGAIN entangled in them and are overcome .............................They are lost again

What do you understand by it?

Read the whole chapter first though

 

[BillG]

The problem with 2 Peter 2 v20-22 for the Osassers is this. They have to redefine who is a believer to who isnt. But the scriptures here are clear that they escaped. Now how did they escape? By their own effort, or by Christ? THIS THEY CANNOT ANSWER. Because if they say own effort, then HOW is this possible? If they say Christ, the HOW is it possible to say so and then accede that these people fell away again.

So they are left with trying to redefine words and intentions in scripture.

The scriptures are plain for all to see.

Only if you read the whole chapter.

 

[FranC]

Well someone had to do all this work.

Ah Ha!
so you DO believe in works!!

See, whoever put that table together with all that good food, and was Christian, did a good work!

See. It's easy...

 

[mailmandan]

Merging threads now:

3393. miasma ►Strong's Concordance

miasma: a stain, defilement
​

Original Word: μίασμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: miasma
Phonetic Spelling: (mee'-as-mah)
Short Definition: pollution, defilement
Definition: pollution, defilement; a stain.HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 3393 míasma(from 3392 /miaínō) – pollution (spiritual stain) that results from vice, i.e. spiritually contaminating a person (used only in 2 Pet 2:20). See 3392 (miainō).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
from miainó
Definition
a stain, defilement
NASB Translation
defilements (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3393: μίασμα

μίασμα, μιασματος, τό (μιαίνω), "that which defiles (cf. καύχημα, 2); defilement" (Vulg.coinquinatio): tropically, μιάσματα τοῦ κόσμου, vices the foulness of which contaminates one in his contact with the ungodly mass of mankind, 2 Peter 2:20. (Tragg., Antiphanes, Demosthenes, Polybius, Josephus, Plutarch; the Sept., Leviticus 7:8 (18); Jeremiah 39:34 (); Judith 9:2; 1 Macc. 13:50.)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

pollution, foul deedFrom miaino ("miasma"); (morally) foulness (properly, the effect) -- pollution.

see GREEK miaino

Forms and Transliterations

μίασμά μιασματα μιάσματα μιασμάτων miasmata miásmataLinks

Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts




When something is contaminated, it needs the washing of the Word. How is it that this is possible without first believing on Christ? Or do you thing that a mere mental assertion is sufficient to wash clean the stains of all of your historical sins? Your theology is flawed. A defilement or contamination affects the vessel itself. This milk is sour. This water is poisoned.

Therefore the only way for this person alluded to above to have been cleaned in the first place is through Jesus. In particular the blood of Jesus. Which is only received through faith. Or are you alluding to a partial work of the cross?

Then secondly, if they were not saved in the first place, then why would it say in verse 20 that they would be worse off than the beginning? Because they knew the Lordship, and knew the Savior (verse 20) and then having known Him, rejected the way and were overcome again. This means there WAS deliverance at some point. And THEN they are overcome again. Deliverance is NOT possible without Christ (and nobody on CC would dare to make that statement, in either camp).

So the scriptures are plain for all to see.

I see that you continue to fight against the truth.

Defilements (3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.

These false teachers in 2 Peter 2 need the washing of the Word because they were NEVER saved. They NEVER believed on Christ. It's your theology that is flawed as you continue to IGNORE that "pollutions" (2 Peter 2:20) and "corruption" (2 Peter 1:4) are two different Greek words with two different meanings. The false teachers in 2 Peter 2:20 were not partakers of the divine nature and did not escape the corruption that is in the world through lust, as we see in 2 Peter 1:4.

Verse 20 says they would be worse off because they rejected Christ with full knowledge. This does not mean they were born again. We are held accountable for the light we are given. They were at a crossroad and having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to this knowledge, which in their case, there obviously was not. Moral reformation (cleaned up on the outside) is no substitute for regeneration (cleaned up on the inside).

The scriptures are plain for all to see, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see.

 

[FranC]

John 6:29;

New International Version Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Could you please explain what BELIEVE means?

Thank you.

 

[Chris1975]

I see that you continue to fight against the truth.

Defilements (3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.

These false teachers in 2 Peter 2 need the washing of the Word because they were NEVER saved. They NEVER believed on Christ. It's your theology that is flawed as you continue to IGNORE that "pollutions" (2 Peter 2:20) and "corruption" (2 Peter 1:4) are two different Greek words with two different meanings. The false teachers in 2 Peter 2:20 were not partakers of the divine nature and did not escape the corruption that is in the world through lust, as we see in 2 Peter 1:4.

Verse 20 says they would be worse off because they rejected Christ with full knowledge. This does not mean they were born again. We are held accountable for the light we are given. They were at a crossroad and having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to this knowledge, which in their case, there obviously was not. Moral reformation (cleaned up on the outside) is no substitute for regeneration (cleaned up on the inside).

The scriptures are plain for all to see, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see.

So how did they escape then mailmandan? By their own effort or by Christ?

 

[Magenta]

Magenta,
We could sin out of ignorance, or we could sin deliberately.

But wouldn't you say that sinning is different from WALKING AWAY FROM GOD.
You know, denying God, turning from Him and at that point we're walking toward satan.

Do you see the difference?

Walking toward? They are walking IN. One is fully immersed in Satan until one turns their will and their life over to the care of God. They are in the flesh which is enmity to God, destined for the second death, unless born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing.

The questions you are asking don't really seem to have any relevance to what I asked JIMBO. I would say a child of God knows when they are sinning, so if they continue in it, they are not sinning accidentally, they deliberately choose sin. Perhaps they are searing their conscience? It is no accident. They choose something they know is wrong. We see it here all the time, people rationalizing and attempting to justify the most outrageous nonsense. It is true that only God knows the heart, but it is hard to believe these people are all saved. They are like the person who thinks they are good to go because they attend church on Sunday and read a passage here and there, for example. A good little Catholic, religious but lost. Please note, I am not saying all RCs are lost

 

[mailmandan]

So how did they escape then mailmandan? By their own effort or by Christ?

I already explained this to you in post #48 in the "Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)" thread.

 

[mailmandan]

Walking toward? They are walking IN. One is fully immersed in Satan until one turns their will and their life over to the care of God. They are in the flesh which is enmity to God, destined for the second death, unless born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing.

Amen! Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

 

[BillG]

Not my words but worth a read.

These verses raise two questions: First, what does Peter mean when he says that their latter state is worse than the first? Second, is Peter saying that believers can lose their salvation?
Peter may mean two things when he says that their latter state is worse than the first. It may be worse because if a person has heard the gospel and had some experience of the Christian life, it will be more difficult to restore him to a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. If you try to talk with him about what it really means to follow Christ, he is likely to say, “Been there, done that. It didn’t work for me.” (See Matthew 12:43-45.)
Peter may also mean that their latter state is worse than the first because everyone will be judged on the amount of light which they rejected (see Matt. 11:21-24; Luke 12:47-48). These people had been exposed to a lot of truth, but they turned their backs on it to pursue their own sinful lusts. They will be judged accordingly.

In response to the second question, the simple answer is, “No, a believer cannot lose his salvation.” Those whom God saves, He keeps (Phil. 1:6). Jesus said that He would not lose any of those that the Father had given to Him (John 6:39-40). No one can snatch His sheep from His hand (John 10:28).
But, to ask if a believer can lose his salvation is really the wrong question. The right question is, “What does it mean to be a true believer in Jesus Christ?” Or, “what is true saving faith?” In a nutshell, when God saves you, He changes your heart. He imparts new life to you so that your desires are changed. You now love God and seek to please Him. You want to grow to know Him. You love His Word. You hate your sin and strive against it. In other words, genuine saving faith always results in a life of growing godliness and obedience to Christ (see James 2 & 1 John). If that is not your experience, you may need to go back and make sure that God has truly changed your heart through faith in Christ.

But, how then do we explain Peter’s words here? He says that these people had escaped the defilements of the world. They knew Jesus as Savior and Lord. They knew the way of righteousness. For a while, at least, they had received the holy commandment of God’s Word. Some would say that they were truly saved, but they would lose their rewards. But Peter’s language doesn’t allow for that. That view flies in the face of chapter 2 and the entire letter (Schreiner, p. 364).

Probably we should understand Peter as using Christian terms to describe these false Christians because for a while, they gave every appearance of being Christians (Schreiner, p. 364). Like the seed sown on the rocky ground and that sown on the thorny ground, for a while they gave the appearance of new life. But they did not persevere and bear fruit unto eternal life. Genuine saving faith perseveres on the path of righteousness. This is not to say that Christians never sin. Sometimes they sin big time. But when they do, they genuinely repent and get back on the path. False believers, like these false teachers, are like dogs that go back to their vomit or pigs that return to the mire. They cleaned up the outside, but their basic nature never changed. Eventually, they act according to their true nature. They do not love God or the way of righteousness described in His Word because they have not been born again.
Conclusion

So, is Peter too harsh and judgmental of these false teachers? Should he join us more enlightened 21st century evangelicals in joining hands with them and singing, “We are One in the Spirit”? Or, did the Holy Spirit inspire Peter to give us this long, sad portrait to study so that we will be able to spot such false teachers and avoid following their sins?
Michael Green observes (The Second Epistle of Peter and the Epistle of Jude [Eerdmans], p. 122), “Why has Peter expended so much powder and shot on the false teachers in this chapter? Because he is primarily a pastor. He is concerned to feed his Master’s sheep (cf. John 21:15-17; 1 Pet. 5:1ff.), and he is furious to find them being poisoned by lust masquerading as religion.” Study this portrait carefully! Your eternal destiny may well depend on it!

 

[FranC]

Walking toward? They are walking IN. One is fully immersed in Satan until one turns their will and their life over to the care of God. They are in the flesh which is enmity to God, destined for the second death, unless born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing.

The questions you are asking don't really seem to have any relevance to what I asked JIMBO. I would say a child of God knows when they are sinning, so if they continue in it, they are not sinning accidentally, they deliberately choose sin. Perhaps they are searing their conscience? It is no accident. They choose something they know is wrong. We see it here all the time, people rationalizing and attempting to justify the most outrageous nonsense. It is true that only God knows the heart, but it is hard to believe these people are all saved. They are like the person who thinks they are good to go because they attend church on Sunday and read a passage here and there, for example. A good little Catholic, religious but lost. Please note, I am not saying all RCs are lost

Forget about Jimbo.
My question is VERY relevant.
Why aren't you anwering it?

Here it is again:

Is SINNING different from denying God and walking away from Him?


Simple question.
Requires a simple response...

 

[Magenta]

Forget about Jimbo.
My question is VERY relevant.
Why aren't you anwering it?

Here it is again:

Is SINNING different from denying God and walking away from Him?


Simple question.
Requires a simple response...

Why forget about JIMBO? My question was to him and HE has failed to answer. I am sorry, I do not like your attitude, bossing me around and demanding I answer your question and pretending I have not. That you don't like or don't understand my answer does not mean I have not answered. I don't know why you are being so antagonistic.

 

[PeterJens]

They do not love God or the way of righteousness described in His Word because they have not been born again.

What I find ironic is many will agree with this sentiment, and interpret opposite things from
the same words.

Most positions life kicks sense into people in the end.
The sad thing is if darkness takes away their faith, because rather than the Lord openning
them up to love and grace, they have ended up picking enemies rather than walking in
the victory the cross brings us.

What I love about God most is you reap what you have sown.
Anyone can only share the light they have and hopefully encourage others to walk
more with Jesus. And on balance the sharing here does do this, even when we
wonder at some of the things shared, in the Lord there is always a good response.

 

[Chris1975]

Not my words but worth a read.

These verses raise two questions: First, what does Peter mean when he says that their latter state is worse than the first? Second, is Peter saying that believers can lose their salvation?
Peter may mean two things when he says that their latter state is worse than the first. It may be worse because if a person has heard the gospel and had some experience of the Christian life, it will be more difficult to restore him to a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. If you try to talk with him about what it really means to follow Christ, he is likely to say, “Been there, done that. It didn’t work for me.” (See Matthew 12:43-45.)
Peter may also mean that their latter state is worse than the first because everyone will be judged on the amount of light which they rejected (see Matt. 11:21-24; Luke 12:47-48). These people had been exposed to a lot of truth, but they turned their backs on it to pursue their own sinful lusts. They will be judged accordingly.

In response to the second question, the simple answer is, “No, a believer cannot lose his salvation.” Those whom God saves, He keeps (Phil. 1:6). Jesus said that He would not lose any of those that the Father had given to Him (John 6:39-40). No one can snatch His sheep from His hand (John 10:28).
But, to ask if a believer can lose his salvation is really the wrong question. The right question is, “What does it mean to be a true believer in Jesus Christ?” Or, “what is true saving faith?” In a nutshell, when God saves you, He changes your heart. He imparts new life to you so that your desires are changed. You now love God and seek to please Him. You want to grow to know Him. You love His Word. You hate your sin and strive against it. In other words, genuine saving faith always results in a life of growing godliness and obedience to Christ (see James 2 & 1 John). If that is not your experience, you may need to go back and make sure that God has truly changed your heart through faith in Christ.

But, how then do we explain Peter’s words here? He says that these people had escaped the defilements of the world. They knew Jesus as Savior and Lord. They knew the way of righteousness. For a while, at least, they had received the holy commandment of God’s Word. Some would say that they were truly saved, but they would lose their rewards. But Peter’s language doesn’t allow for that. That view flies in the face of chapter 2 and the entire letter (Schreiner, p. 364).

Probably we should understand Peter as using Christian terms to describe these false Christians because for a while, they gave every appearance of being Christians (Schreiner, p. 364). Like the seed sown on the rocky ground and that sown on the thorny ground, for a while they gave the appearance of new life. But they did not persevere and bear fruit unto eternal life. Genuine saving faith perseveres on the path of righteousness. This is not to say that Christians never sin. Sometimes they sin big time. But when they do, they genuinely repent and get back on the path. False believers, like these false teachers, are like dogs that go back to their vomit or pigs that return to the mire. They cleaned up the outside, but their basic nature never changed. Eventually, they act according to their true nature. They do not love God or the way of righteousness described in His Word because they have not been born again.
Conclusion

So, is Peter too harsh and judgmental of these false teachers? Should he join us more enlightened 21st century evangelicals in joining hands with them and singing, “We are One in the Spirit”? Or, did the Holy Spirit inspire Peter to give us this long, sad portrait to study so that we will be able to spot such false teachers and avoid following their sins?
Michael Green observes (The Second Epistle of Peter and the Epistle of Jude [Eerdmans], p. 122), “Why has Peter expended so much powder and shot on the false teachers in this chapter? Because he is primarily a pastor. He is concerned to feed his Master’s sheep (cf. John 21:15-17; 1 Pet. 5:1ff.), and he is furious to find them being poisoned by lust masquerading as religion.” Study this portrait carefully! Your eternal destiny may well depend on it!

You should read the bible. More interesting than website interpretations.

And by the way, the false teachers and prophets mentioned in verse 1 are the ones leading astray believers from the faith (in verses 18 - 22). Do you see where the change happens?

Here's a clue: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they <false teachers> speak great swelling words of emptiness, they <false teachers> allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones <the believers> who have actually escaped[SUP][d][/SUP] from those who live in error. [SUP]19 [/SUP]While they <false teachers> promise them <the believers> liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

 

[BillG]

You should read the bible. More interesting than website interpretations.

And by the way, the false teachers and prophets mentioned in verse 1 are the ones leading astray believers from the faith (in verses 18 - 22). Do you see where the change happens?

Here's a clue: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they <false teachers> speak great swelling words of emptiness, they <false teachers> allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones <the believers> who have actually escaped[SUP][d][/SUP] from those who live in error. [SUP]19 [/SUP]While they <false teachers> promise them <the believers> liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

Nope I don't.

Maybe you should read the bible more with an open heart.

Rather than fitting verses into your distorted work based doctrinal positions and trying to rough ride shot over everyone and make snarky, snide comments and accusations when people disagree with you.

Maybe you should stop saying things like "You should read the bible"

I read the bible but you assume I don't. You are doing a good job endearing yourself to people NOT.

Thought I would respond to you like you do to others, maybe it will make you realise exactly how you come across.

its not nice is it?

 

[Grace777x70]

It is very clear that 2 Peter chapter 2 "in context" is talking about false teachers that creep in amongst us - NOT Christians. 2 Peter 2:1

These are those that deny the Lord and His righteousness and try to establish their own righteousness.

2 Peter 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Even "if" they are Christians - it doesn't say that they go to hell and the Holy Spirit leaves them - which is what the people that believe in losing salvation believe. They are "reading " that into the text.

( despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. He is not a liar )

Take up eating at McDonalds every day for all your meals and you will most likely die within that year. Does that change the fact that you were born into this world? Does that stop you from being a son or daughter?

We do not become "un-born" in our spirits where Christ is one spirit with us forever.

Nor can we in our warped mind and sick thinking make ourselves not a son or a daughter no matter how much "we want" to. Some things are permanent and being born and a son/daughter is one as well as being born - not of the will of man nor of the flesh but of God.

Why do we have so much unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection? Why are we constantly denying the very Lord that saved us in the first place?

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.