Not By Works
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The desires of the flesh have more power than Jesus??? That is a works based religious Reformation doctrine. Nay, may God forbid such foolishness!
To those who perceive that they must sin is only because they put their faith in the power of the flesh over the power of Christ, of whom has been given ALL POWER over flesh in heaven and earth. Jesus has already bound the strongman and his goods/sin. . HE dispenses this power through the Spirit of grace, the Comforter, to those that keep His commandments, John 14-15 …… by SUBMITTING to the Spirit of grace and His influencing power working in you does one overcome the willful vile sins of the flesh. (it's He that worketh in you for His good pleasure while at the same time we strive to work out our own salvation, Phill. 2:13,12)...when Jesus speaks something (a command for an example) it becomes a reality, lest He is just fooling around when He commands us to repent and forsake our former ways, and says the servant of sin abides not in the house forever..
To those who perceive that they must sin is only because they put their faith in the power of the flesh over the power of Christ, of whom has been given ALL POWER over flesh in heaven and earth. Jesus has already bound the strongman and his goods/sin. . HE dispenses this power through the Spirit of grace, the Comforter, to those that keep His commandments, John 14-15 …… by SUBMITTING to the Spirit of grace and His influencing power working in you does one overcome the willful vile sins of the flesh. (it's He that worketh in you for His good pleasure while at the same time we strive to work out our own salvation, Phill. 2:13,12)...when Jesus speaks something (a command for an example) it becomes a reality, lest He is just fooling around when He commands us to repent and forsake our former ways, and says the servant of sin abides not in the house forever..
Context. Read the preceding verses...
V15-19: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
And even before these verses we see the narrow & broad road mentioned.
Two sets of people are spoken of throughout the scriptures...
Sheep & Goats (Matthew 25:31-46)
"....Then He will also say to those (goats) on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Wheat & Tares (Matthew 13:24-30)
"......First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them"
Narrow & Broad road (Matthew 7:13-14)
".....broad is the way that leads to destruction (hell)"
V15-19: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
And even before these verses we see the narrow & broad road mentioned.
Two sets of people are spoken of throughout the scriptures...
Sheep & Goats (Matthew 25:31-46)
"....Then He will also say to those (goats) on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Wheat & Tares (Matthew 13:24-30)
"......First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them"
Narrow & Broad road (Matthew 7:13-14)
".....broad is the way that leads to destruction (hell)"
Obviously you are not understanding what is really being said. That's ok...just let it go.
If you can't see what is being said - I guess you just cant see it now. I can understand that. It happened with me in some things the Lord was showing me too - including this "good works" thing and relying on the life of Christ instead of my own self.
Another one was the understanding of the circumcision of the flesh from the heart - the new man in Christ . That one changed my life dramatically
Ask the Lord about it and carry on. He is faithful to all of us. Have a great night...
You don't really know me do you?
You don't know what I've done, what I do, or anything.
I'll just say this.
I UNDERSTAND VERY WELL all the concepts that are put forth here.
Because I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM does not mean I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM.
Do you see the difference?
You can't tell someone that doesn't agree with you that they don't understand.
I've just come to the conclusion that we're repeating now and it's not time well spent.
There's no use in repeating the same things over and over again. I even noticed that you copy and paste. I don't do this.
Every reply is on the spot and directed at one particular post.
That's all I wanted to say.
You're saved and that's all that counts.
However you want to understand it is fine. I'm really posting for new Christians who might be reading along.
Hi Dan,
I almost always agree with what you say, but I'm not sure about this one.
I'll post the scriptures so we can look at them. My comments in blue.
John 15:1-6 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
Here Jesus sats every branch in Me. Isn't that believers? The branch is in Him. I don't know how to understand that except that those in Christ are believers. What are you thoughts there?
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. It seems here He's of course speaking to believers, but warning them that they can't do a thing without Him so they need to abide in the vine. So those who don't remain and abide in Christ, they dry up and are gathered to be burned. How else can we read this? It seems pretty clear that He's talking to Christians.
And thanks to all who want to respond ahead of time for discussing this calmly and respectfully. I truly want to see it as it should be interpreted.
MMD will give you a different response but think about this well.
People who believe in doctrine that is not scriptual will change the meaning of words, will confuse you with what the Greek means, and will twist and turn everything that seems very clear to YOU.
Jesus is saying that IF you remain IN HIM, you will produce good fruit and you will continue to be saved.
IF you do not remain in HIM and produce GOOD fruit, you will be cut off and "burned".
You are correctly questioning these verses because you've thought on your own and have already come to the conclusion that Jesus is speaking to believers and WARNING them.
This is practically all He did.
Keep questioning!
Could you explain what FLUFF is?
Mattforjesus has a page long of scripture to support his belief.
How do you reply to it?
By calling it fluff.
That's really nice of you. How about replying with some scripture that supports what YOU believe?
You see what you wrote above?
THAT IS FLUFF.
I'm not sure mattforjesus is saying that one can't sin.
He's saying not to give the victory to satan.
He's saying that we could choose not to sin.
I see no problem with this.
This does not man we Always make the right choice.
For instance, you don't Always make the right choice when you choose to demean people instead of engaging them in discussion.
Mattforjesus has a page long of scripture to support his belief.
How do you reply to it?
By calling it fluff.
That's really nice of you. How about replying with some scripture that supports what YOU believe?
You see what you wrote above?
THAT IS FLUFF.
I'm not sure mattforjesus is saying that one can't sin.
He's saying not to give the victory to satan.
He's saying that we could choose not to sin.
I see no problem with this.
This does not man we Always make the right choice.
For instance, you don't Always make the right choice when you choose to demean people instead of engaging them in discussion.
I've posted the history of OSAS.
Could you please do the same?
Could you instruct us all (instead of just saying how wrong I am) as to the HISTORY of eternal salvation?
Was it Always a belief of the Church?
When did it start?
Who started it?
Why wasn't it Always believed by the Church?
Any other comments would be appreciated.
thanks.
(you never do actually answer me)
Could you please do the same?
Could you instruct us all (instead of just saying how wrong I am) as to the HISTORY of eternal salvation?
Was it Always a belief of the Church?
When did it start?
Who started it?
Why wasn't it Always believed by the Church?
Any other comments would be appreciated.
thanks.
(you never do actually answer me)
Katy,
It's NOT UP TO US to decide WHO IS SAVED AND WHO ISN'T.
That's a task relegated to God. Wouldn't you say?
Can YOU see into a man's heart?
One may seem saved, and not be.
One may no seem saved and instead be saved.
HOW can YOU know for sure?
I see some here that want to be God and have even told ME that I'M going to the pit with the plentious.
Lucky for me, my salvation does not depend on anyone here making the confirmation.
Think on this.
WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE THE SOUL'S OF PERSONS.
Only their ACTS.
It's NOT UP TO US to decide WHO IS SAVED AND WHO ISN'T.
That's a task relegated to God. Wouldn't you say?
Can YOU see into a man's heart?
One may seem saved, and not be.
One may no seem saved and instead be saved.
HOW can YOU know for sure?
I see some here that want to be God and have even told ME that I'M going to the pit with the plentious.
Lucky for me, my salvation does not depend on anyone here making the confirmation.
Think on this.
WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE THE SOUL'S OF PERSONS.
Only their ACTS.
What?
Of course "spongebobs" post is relevant to what we're speaking about...
Here it is again, please read it and tell us WHY it is not relevant...:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
HE dispenses this power through the Spirit of grace, the Comforter, to those that keep His commandments, John 14-15 ……
by SUBMITTING to the Spirit of grace and His influencing power working in you does one overcome the willful vile sins of the flesh. (it's He that worketh in you for His good pleasure
while at the same time we strive to work out our own salvation, Phill. 2:13,12)...
when Jesus speaks something (a command for an example) it becomes a reality, lest He is just fooling around when He commands us to repent and forsake our former ways, and says the servant of sin abides not in the house forever..
Of course "spongebobs" post is relevant to what we're speaking about...
Here it is again, please read it and tell us WHY it is not relevant...:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
HE dispenses this power through the Spirit of grace, the Comforter, to those that keep His commandments, John 14-15 ……
by SUBMITTING to the Spirit of grace and His influencing power working in you does one overcome the willful vile sins of the flesh. (it's He that worketh in you for His good pleasure
while at the same time we strive to work out our own salvation, Phill. 2:13,12)...
when Jesus speaks something (a command for an example) it becomes a reality, lest He is just fooling around when He commands us to repent and forsake our former ways, and says the servant of sin abides not in the house forever..
Yes Katy. Context. So what's wrong with what I posted??
Look again at what Jesus said:
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,
nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
What do you think Jesus meant when He said that EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE?
THEREFORE BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM.
Please explain.
( BTW, Jesus didn't say: You know ME, so don't worry about trees or fruit bearing)
Look again at what Jesus said:
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,
nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
What do you think Jesus meant when He said that EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE?
THEREFORE BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM.
Please explain.
( BTW, Jesus didn't say: You know ME, so don't worry about trees or fruit bearing)