Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

because of the scripture i posted so far in many posts between my last and new account

mainly new testement

a little old testiment to back it up

i dont believe if you follow Jesus
he leads you to sin

i believe if you follow Jesus
he leads to righteousness


some people love their sin so much they decieve themselfs

even on here

using 1 verse out of context rather than the word as a whole to show the truth


if you love sin
you dont love God


there isnt 1 sin Jesus isnt strong enough to break you from

i DONT believe anything i can do will produce salvation

but what i do and dont do is how my fruits are to be tested


if im a sinner
but feel "bad" about it

im a sinner...



if im saved
i practice righteousness

what happens when you practice?

you improve


i see the fruits of my life

and i see the fruits of the decieved ive met

who now reject God and their life reflects their beliefs


ive also posted a prime example of this in my uncle

who now says stuff like

"well if God is real i already got saved in the past and he saves not anything we do" as he plans to fornicate with multiple woman

talk about evillusion, whoops evolution
and commit sorcery and do drugs and covet
idolatry



i will not be decieved to think i can be a new creature

but still enjoy the same things of the world and put them above my lord my king my savior


if you have a king and you love your king
if you love your father
if you are a servant

you obey... maybe youre not very good at first
but the more you learn of your master
the more you are capable of doing what he wishes
the more your DESIRES align with his and the less you take joy in rebelling against him

i hear a lot of people say they made a mistake


its not a mistake to get drunk knowing its wrong
lust,after then commit sexual immorality knowing its wrong

this is hatred for God
its love of sin
its rebellion against God


works may not get you into heaven

but they can show you someone hates God

 

[PennEd]

Can't lose something that is ertenal called, eternal life. If a person claims they can, do they make the faith of God without effect.by having it in respect to their own selves? Would that not blaspheme the holy name by which we are called ?

The reward is the same for every person its called etenal life. They will not come into condemnation\. Chrsit took that upon His own self as a work of His faith or labor of His love

Yes the reward of eternal life will be for all who believe the Gospel and accepted Christ.

BUT the Bible is replete with verses about positional rewards in heaven.
Jesus Himself tells us to store treasure in heaven AND there is a LEAST in the Kingdom.

Also, I'm not totally convinced that those who believe Jesus is Lord, by confessing with their mouth, and believe He was raised to life on the 3rd day, are lost because they think they have to do works. I am content to continue to preach eternal security, pray, and let God work that out.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It becomes the matter of "whose" faith as the thing of men or the faith of God?

Yes, we are saved by works just not according to human faith the imaginations of ones own heart(dead). Christ’s works according to His faith alone saves.

Ask yourself what if some do not believe according to His faith, will it make the faith of God without effect?

Scripture informs us God forbid.

For what if some did not believe? “shall their unbelief”(no faith) make the faith of Godwithout effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3

What if our faithful Creator could not work according to His own faith..

Some say God does not have or need faith. If so how would he work to create if he did not believe (exercise or work his faith) something would occur out of nothing. We must apply His faith properly so that others do not think it is of our self but is the fre gift of God according to His work of faith

1Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

no matter how many works you do

YOU cant cover your sins garee
YOU cant earn salvation

that being said

if you love Jesus
he has the power to save you from your past sins
and to change you

and to turn you from sin

this will make you stop sinning
this will produce works in you

but no

none of your works are good enough to cleanse the sins of your past

only to reveal your heart in the present


edit
ahhh only read your first line

thought you were like the pharasies for a second there

 

[PeterJens]

Hey bill,

I wish you were right, I would be so happy. But sadly Peter and many of us have been having this conversation for months. Look at his ops. He wrote one which said the cross was not enough, He teaches that our works are required. thayt if we lose faith and turn to sin we will lose salvation.

I have tried to show him how all true faith will carry works, But he fights me on it.. He declared war on me, I usually ignore him, But decided I wanted to comment on something he said.

Anyway, Your good bro..

"But he fights me on it.. He declared war on me"

This is the strangest idea. I have no war with anyone.
War implies conflict, winning and losing. I share my faith and viewpoint, that is what
forums are for.

Now my observation is if one puts everything on Christ, literally everything, you are a
universalist, all will be saved and all will see who God is.

The problem with this position, is why does God maintain a world with sin and himself
hidden? Because something else is in play. Love.

Now for love to work sinners need to become saints, pure, holy, righteous giving and
receiving in a place and way similar to Christs walk on earth.

This needs ownership, healing, building in ones heart, participation, new birth, the Holy
Spirit. A mature man and woman of God.

How do you describe such a thing? The initial step of faith is simple, trust in the Father
a child to their dad. But walking in this, is complicated. It is easier to declare failure is
the place to be and even starting is impossible, in fact abdicate all responsibility and just
rest in Christ in failure. But love is the power of the universe, the Heart of God, the anointing
from on High, the thing that binds us together.

So I see the abdication of our participation is the denial of Christs promise, to call us as
men and women of God, Holy righteous, loving, Spirit filled people who are overcomers,
victorious, who wish to meet the needy, heal the sick but most of all bring them to the
Father.

I also see as explained above, righteousness without love, is hidden sin and a hard heart
which creates bondage and failure, in the guise of faith. It is what the pharisees had and
any believer can fall into it if love dies, or is never ignited in the first place.

I have no war with anyone, I am just sharing the love God has planted in my heart.
Read my words, and judge, for many will come with their hearts and try and defeat the very
words of God, so it has been from always.

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
John 15:18

As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 13:34

I have loved all, and still do. Now if you are following the Lord you should be loving
me and your words should reflect that. So is the Lord speaking through you, or is it
your flesh and you are reacting to the very challenge God is placing on your heart?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

my apoligies garee i implied you said something you didnt say

 

[JohnTalmid]

Whuttt?

What does any of this gibberish have to do with salvation not being gained by works?

It doesn't and I have never taught that salvation is gained through works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Slander beyond imagination - that must be some slander, except maybe it is also
beyond words and does not actually exist. I am sure I could be deeply offended
by such an onslaught, except like horror movies that go to far, it becomes a farce.

Behaviour matters, or else Jesus would not give us commands and Paul say we
have to put off the old self and put on the new self.

Paul talks about the ways of christian living Eph 4:17-32

Now as much as we think everything is automatic, it obviously is not and we need
teachers, pastors, prophets to help guide us through Gods word.

I would express behaviour, total rebellion is rejecting faith in all its forms, each
has to work out their own discipleship walk, but without a walk there is no faith.
So maybe this rather than being the walk earns faith, a lack of a walk rejects faith.

Yet here you are, unrepentant, of your own lies. Why bother..

if if you can not repent of your sins against other people, how are we going to believe you repented of your sins against God?

i never said behavior does not matter in a persons life, your continued insistence that I and those like me do say this is just further proof of your slanderous ways.

if rebellion is rejecting faith, then what do you think your rebellion of refusing to repent of your continued lies of what those you hate and continue to attack means about your own faith?

Maybe you you need to do some soul searching my friend.

 

[PeterJens]

Sounds like blashphemy having the faith of Christ according to the work of Christ in respect to one's own self.(no grace)

Do I take the rubbish out because I know it needs to be done, a consequence of faith in
the rubbish truck, or because it is rubbish day? Does it matter? Is one behaviour good
or the other evil, or is the discussion absurd?

It matters whose will according to whose faith.

We are saved by the faith of Christ according to the work of Christ, called the work of faith. Not the human kind of faith which is referred to in the scriptures as “no faith” in respect to their own mind like taking out the trash. Taking out the trash will not paid the eternal debt of sin

My friend, I am saying good works are good works.
Displacing morality here is not biblical, it is just wrong.

I was on holiday with a christian group and there was a non-believing couple with us.
They said they had tried loving people and being nice and all they got back was trouble,
so they were not doing that again.

And this is the point. Good works cease unless you have a heart of love, because that
is where they come from.

And in this world we need more people who know how to love, because then they will begin
to know the heart of God at work in the world.

But maybe people know how hard good works are, and how little feedback you get, and want
an excuse to stop. Only works driven by God are needed, the rest can stop. So no more
hospitals, or doctors, or nurses, or health workers, or social workers, or housing provision,
or transport, or food safety, or law and order, or ambulance men and women, or churches,
or anything that is good, unless it passes the spiritual police, because then it is actually
evil and should be stopped.

Now what kind of a world would that be?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re-read the post you responded to, I linked an article. At church learning about "Canine Angels: saving dogs, serving vets"

I went back do not see a link, or does not work on my IPAD​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one has said we are not to do the works.....saved UNTO...not BY.....and Paul was clear....those who say one must have faith and then works to cap the deal peddle a false gospel with no power to save, one that is double cursed...as a matter of fact he calls them fools and bewitched!

SMH,

what will it take ale for these people to stop spreading these lies that people teach works do not matter at all, we can live how we want, it gets old,, really really old.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG,

You understand what J and S is so I don't really know why you don't agree that works are necessary for sanctifiation, whether we feel like doing them out of love or not.

Hi Fran

i never said otherwise, why you think I have is something I do not understand

There's too much to cover here, we're repeating, this thread moves too fast, and I'm going to drop out.
It was nice to meet you. You're a good guy and maybe we'll be meeting up in other places.

All is good as long as we love our Lord and follow in His ways.
See you around...


Fran

be safe, and just be open, that's all anyone can ask. See ya sis

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How we live our lives is how we teach the world about God.

I have a big issue with many people who claim to,be Christian not taking any responsibility within the church because of the false idea of "i am not the preacher"

God calls all people to do good works and to learn to use our spiritual gifts to function as one united body in Christ.

Yes to many skirt responsibility, given to us all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Falling away....

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

****

If your foundation is in Christ Jesus, even if your works burn up...God will save you from the fire.

How can that NOT BE about eternal salvation?

If you reject eternal security in Christ, and refuse to acknowledge there will be baby believers in heaven who never grew, but God kept his promise anyway, then you will never see that mean salvation.

Even if the symbol fits, it is like a person inside a building building which is his house, he gets up, runs through the flame to get outside the on,y thing he has is thenscloths on his back, if he has them, the rest of all he owns or had earned, is burnt in the flame, but he was saved through fire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

my apoligies garee i implied you said something you didnt say

See ths this is how you confess, wish other people would learn ths basic Christian trait. Instead of blameshifting, or excusing their sin.

Thank you

 

[blue_ladybug]

And I never said you did.

It doesn't and I have never taught that salvation is gained through works.

 

[PeterJens]

Yet here you are, unrepentant, of your own lies. Why bother..

if if you can not repent of your sins against other people, how are we going to believe you repented of your sins against God?

i never said behavior does not matter in a persons life, your continued insistence that I and those like me do say this is just further proof of your slanderous ways.

if rebellion is rejecting faith, then what do you think your rebellion of refusing to repent of your continued lies of what those you hate and continue to attack means about your own faith?

Maybe you you need to do some soul searching my friend.

Behaviour. So you hold behaviour matters.

But if I have faith, and I am saved because of my faith, no matter the behaviour that
follows, how can behaviour matter?

If a person comes to faith, gets the magic key of eternal life, no matter what follows,
the magic key means they enter into heaven.

Now you personally and everyone else can care deeply about behaviour and their
morality etc. but ones theology may totally ignore it.

Now those who hold to such a theology and yet live differently are deceiving themselves
that they know what they are following.

Now what people hate, is having a weakness in their position displayed and shown, and
it really, really hurts. I can feel it from here. "slanderous ways"

It is not the slander that hurts but the truth. And the problem is giving up the acceptance
is all, means for them legalism and death of the spiritual soul. But in truth, it actually means
you know God loves you and He will help you through this walk to communion with Him, if
you have the faith to believe.

I am repentant of not seeing the anger and resentment sharing might bring, and not being
humble enough to understand and take it graciously, because it is inevitable.
So I am sorry I have not been loving and kind enough, and pray that in future I might know
the right words to share in Gods grace, Amen.

I am sorry and ask your forgiveness if I did not turn the other cheek, and know you are
driven by things beyond your control or knowledge. God bless you, and may he show you
His peace and love in your heart, Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Falling away....

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

****

If your foundation is in Christ Jesus, even if your works burn up...God will save you from the fire.

How can that NOT BE about eternal salvation?

Those who have faith in Christ are saved.
There works may be minor and confused, hay and stubble but they have hung on
to faith in Christ. There are many in churches who are like this, who for whatever
reasons do not mature or get things right.

There is always hope through Jesus, the living promise.

Paul was always the optimist, and believed in handing people over to satan for
rebuke. For him he always wanted to see people coming back, but he knew some
who preached being a jew was necessary, and this annoyed him to the extent of
saying it denied their faith.

Interestingly similar thoughts appear to be expressed here, where believers can be
anti-christ and the worst evil possible while also being saved. I suggest a very
inconsistent position is being put forward.

In this world one could come to faith and then blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but it would
not matter because you had been a believer in the past.

The problem with these belief systems is they are made because of emotional compromise
and not theology, so inconsistencies do not matter, they can just be ignored.

 

[gb9]

Behaviour. So you hold behaviour matters.

But if I have faith, and I am saved because of my faith, no matter the behaviour that
follows, how can behaviour matter?

If a person comes to faith, gets the magic key of eternal life, no matter what follows,
the magic key means they enter into heaven.

Now you personally and everyone else can care deeply about behaviour and their
morality etc. but ones theology may totally ignore it.

Now those who hold to such a theology and yet live differently are deceiving themselves
that they know what they are following.

Now what people hate, is having a weakness in their position displayed and shown, and
it really, really hurts. I can feel it from here. "slanderous ways"

It is not the slander that hurts but the truth. And the problem is giving up the acceptance
is all, means for them legalism and death of the spiritual soul. But in truth, it actually means
you know God loves you and He will help you through this walk to communion with Him, if
you have the faith to believe.

I am repentant of not seeing the anger and resentment sharing might bring, and not being
humble enough to understand and take it graciously, because it is inevitable.
So I am sorry I have not been loving and kind enough, and pray that in future I might know
the right words to share in Gods grace, Amen.

I am sorry and ask your forgiveness if I did not turn the other cheek, and know you are
driven by things beyond your control or knowledge. God bless you, and may he show you
His peace and love in your heart, Amen.

o.k., so you talk about love , then you backdoor a " know you are driven by things beyond your control or knowledge". what a joke.

you sir need to take a serious dose of humility.

and, by the way, e.g. is right and you are wrong. as usual.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Behaviour. So you hold behaviour matters.

But if I have faith, and I am saved because of my faith, no matter the behaviour that
follows, how can behaviour matter?

as we have said before. A person of true faith works. You can not claim to have faith, yet do no work, Because living faith acts, it does not sit still,

That is why in the sense of SALVATION it does not matter, (works) because true faith produces true salvation, which causes a person do do true works. It is not a question of if they will work, the question is how much will they grow which produces more and more works.

Works matter because our work is what draws others to Christ, our works is what serves others, our works is what love does.. and we are blessed if we love and give.. so it matters quite a lot. In fact it matter very very much. Just NOT for determining nes salvation, like you insist.

If a person comes to faith, gets the magic key of eternal life, no matter what follows,
the magic key means they enter into heaven.

Now you personally and everyone else can care deeply about behaviour and their
morality etc. but ones theology may totally ignore it.

Now those who hold to such a theology and yet live differently are deceiving themselves
that they know what they are following.

Now what people hate, is having a weakness in their position displayed and shown, and
it really, really hurts. I can feel it from here. "slanderous ways"

It is not the slander that hurts but the truth. And the problem is giving up the acceptance
is all, means for them legalism and death of the spiritual soul. But in truth, it actually means
you know God loves you and He will help you through this walk to communion with Him, if
you have the faith to believe.

I am repentant of not seeing the anger and resentment sharing might bring, and not being
humble enough to understand and take it graciously, because it is inevitable.
So I am sorry I have not been loving and kind enough, and pray that in future I might know
the right words to share in Gods grace, Amen.

I am sorry and ask your forgiveness if I did not turn the other cheek, and know you are
driven by things beyond your control or knowledge. God bless you, and may he show you
His peace and love in your heart, Amen.

I want to see true repentance Peter, but again, you seem like you are more worried about defending yourself then true repentance.. I mean, you need to realize I am driven by things beyond my control or knowledge? That's not repentance that's blame shifting again, your again excusing your own actions by slamming and blaming it all on me.

You have been told over 100 times what will help Peter, stop telling people what they believe, if you do not tell people what they believe, you will never slander them ,and not get into trouble,

you speak of love, and amen. That's how you do it when your tempted to tell a person what they beleve, love them instead, and tell them why you disagree with them, or at the least, ask them if what you think they are saying is right, and if they say no, do not get mad, ask for clarification.

non of us are perfects we all make mistakes, that's why we all need God, and grace,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

o.k., so you talk about love , then you backdoor a " know you are driven by things beyond your control or knowledge". what a joke.

you sir need to take a serious dose of humility.

and, by the way, e.g. is right and you are wrong. as usual.

I was hoping I read that wrong, thanks, I see I was not mistaken, he did try to repent by blamshifting again.

so sad.