Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?
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Now you're reaching.
Please my brother, you need to study this out, you're going ad lib at this point and arriving at errors.
God is perfect in all His ways and actions. You're divorcing His character from His wisdom to make your scenario fit. Perfect God didn't need to examine options. You are placing God in learning mode, and that is Open Theism, and that is not Omniscience and Omnisapience, it's a truncated version of these and a reduction of God.
Please my brother, you need to study this out, you're going ad lib at this point and arriving at errors.
God is perfect in all His ways and actions. You're divorcing His character from His wisdom to make your scenario fit. Perfect God didn't need to examine options. You are placing God in learning mode, and that is Open Theism, and that is not Omniscience and Omnisapience, it's a truncated version of these and a reduction of God.
A
Those folks may have confessed with their mouths but they didn't have a saving faith in their hearts...
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. 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
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. 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
K
Thank you! I kept calling people out on their contradictions and if there are people that God elected there had to be people He damned. You can look through my threads {not for the faint of heart} on the subject where I began to question and certain people went nuclear!! Now I understand why! Your last line makes total sense now.
Isn't that what the verse says?
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
You don't have to be a Universalist to believe this scripture . . . you can't be a Calvinist and believe this scripture . . . you have to be just a regular ole person who believes in the word of God and knows that salvation is derived through belief in Jesus Christ and that is Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the light. No man comes to the Father but through him and no one comes to the Son unless God draws him . . . God draws all men . . . and they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard and has learned of the Father, comes unto me.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
You don't have to be a Universalist to believe this scripture . . . you can't be a Calvinist and believe this scripture . . . you have to be just a regular ole person who believes in the word of God and knows that salvation is derived through belief in Jesus Christ and that is Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the light. No man comes to the Father but through him and no one comes to the Son unless God draws him . . . God draws all men . . . and they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard and has learned of the Father, comes unto me.
Could be a reference to those who think they follow God but are actually deceived by Satan because they have rejected the truth of who God and Christ are. A lot of people think they follow Christ but are in fact following a counterfeit. Jesus calls those who profess his name and do many miracles in his name workers of lawlessness or iniquity. This chapter sheds some light on the mystery of lawlessness:
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Some believe the temple in this passage is a building, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70 as per Jesus' prophecy. Paul also writes in other books that the temple of God is our bodies and that is what I think he is talking about in this chapter as well. Notice Jesus calls those who do miracles in his name lawless and here we see the coming of the lawless one (Satan) is with signs and wonders. Counterfeit Christianity. Look today at all the false miracles people chase after in the name of Jesus.
We also know this:
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Hope this helps shed some light on it for you.
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Some believe the temple in this passage is a building, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70 as per Jesus' prophecy. Paul also writes in other books that the temple of God is our bodies and that is what I think he is talking about in this chapter as well. Notice Jesus calls those who do miracles in his name lawless and here we see the coming of the lawless one (Satan) is with signs and wonders. Counterfeit Christianity. Look today at all the false miracles people chase after in the name of Jesus.
We also know this:
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Hope this helps shed some light on it for you.
Again you said
I focused on this part of your post. You and others in Kaylas thread called some of us liars without showing us where we lied. And here again you accusing others of lying. Reformed does teach that you're elected for heaven and hell.
It doesn't really matter to me what reformed camp you belong to. And if you don't believe that the lost are elected for hell, okay.
My my response was in reference to you calling people liars. Some here throw that word out like there's no tomorrow. You owe people an apology and need to ask for forgiveness. Grace words are seasoned with salt, but I see no grace at all in your words.
May God be exhalted in this thread and may we glorify the name of Jesus with the fruit of our lips. May the sweet water flow instead of bitterness! Come Lord Jesus and convict us all of the sins of our heart that pours forth from our lips.
In Christs love, amen!
It doesn't really matter to me what reformed camp you belong to. And if you don't believe that the lost are elected for hell, okay.
My my response was in reference to you calling people liars. Some here throw that word out like there's no tomorrow. You owe people an apology and need to ask for forgiveness. Grace words are seasoned with salt, but I see no grace at all in your words.
May God be exhalted in this thread and may we glorify the name of Jesus with the fruit of our lips. May the sweet water flow instead of bitterness! Come Lord Jesus and convict us all of the sins of our heart that pours forth from our lips.
In Christs love, amen!
No, it doesn't. It teaches some are elected to to salvation by grace through faith in Christ. Nothing about being elected to hell whatsoever. Maybe Calvin taught that. I'm not a disciple of Calvin. To say I, and most others here, believe that God elects people to hell is a flat out lie that we have cleared up over and over and over and over and over again. It's getting old.
I don't owe anyone an apology. Most of our positions have been made clear countless times and Grace777x77 knows exactly what we believe. This isn't his first time around with us. He flat out lied.
I don't owe anyone an apology. Most of our positions have been made clear countless times and Grace777x77 knows exactly what we believe. This isn't his first time around with us. He flat out lied.
A
Okay....let's try with using free will vocabulary.....
1. Free willers believe that people have a choice to follow God or end up in hell, yes?
2. Why do some people chose to follow God and others don't?
I know reformed folks say that God grants them (his elect) grace and draws them towards him.
Free will folks say God draws all people.
So free willers, why do some get saved and others don't?
Those who don't chose God,..did God destine them to hell?
1. Free willers believe that people have a choice to follow God or end up in hell, yes?
2. Why do some people chose to follow God and others don't?
I know reformed folks say that God grants them (his elect) grace and draws them towards him.
Free will folks say God draws all people.
So free willers, why do some get saved and others don't?
Those who don't chose God,..did God destine them to hell?
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Agreed. No matter how many times we say it we sill still be lied about. Isn't it interesting bro that g7 defends all heretics abroad, calls them of the body of Christ, defends them as having only a differing opinion, begs for a false unity, wants all to embrace WoF & the Prosperity Gospel, among other false gospels, while all the time never doing this for the Reformed brothers and instead slanders and attacks them?
Yeah. We get it.
To shed some more light on lawlessness/iniquity:
Matthew 24:
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Agreed. No matter how many times we say it we sill still be lied about. Isn't it interesting bro that g7 defends all heretics abroad, calls them of the body of Christ, defends them as having only a differing opinion, begs for a false unity, wants all to embrace WoF & the Prosperity Gospel, among other false gospels, while all the time never doing this for the Reformed brothers and instead slanders and attacks them?
Yeah. We get it.
Yeah. We get it.
Yes, but wouldn't the church already reach repentance in order to even belong to the church, the body of Christ?
This is written to those who believe and Peter is teaching them concerning scoffers: 4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. v5) But this they are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord is a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I just love that picture - well, humpf, where is this Jesus Christ you say is coming? Everything is just going on as it always has and I see no evidence of him coming . . . Peter's response is that the word of God created the heavens of old and by God's word, he is now keeping the heavens and earth, reserving the same against the day of judgment. It doesn't matter how long the Lord takes - he is not slack concerning his promise; he is just holding and reserving in his intent to be longsuffering giving everyone the time and chance to come to repentance because he doesn't will for any to perish.
The grace, the love, the mercy, the compassion, the longsuffering of our Lord and God toward sinners, is awe inspiring!
This is written to those who believe and Peter is teaching them concerning scoffers: 4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. v5) But this they are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord is a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I just love that picture - well, humpf, where is this Jesus Christ you say is coming? Everything is just going on as it always has and I see no evidence of him coming . . . Peter's response is that the word of God created the heavens of old and by God's word, he is now keeping the heavens and earth, reserving the same against the day of judgment. It doesn't matter how long the Lord takes - he is not slack concerning his promise; he is just holding and reserving in his intent to be longsuffering giving everyone the time and chance to come to repentance because he doesn't will for any to perish.
The grace, the love, the mercy, the compassion, the longsuffering of our Lord and God toward sinners, is awe inspiring!