Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)
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Amen we respond in faith to the message. We know we respond, we do not know
if we could not have responded, or this faith was given or rose from hearing the word.
We know we responded. We also know others respond and then go astray.
It appears looking a 2 John they can veer off from the path and end up in
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God
2 John 1:9
We can find ourselves without God. It can get so bad we are
"Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist"
2 John 1:7
So the teaching we are under matters because if we sit under heresy
we become:
Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work
2 John 1:11
These are dire warnings, so we should be careful to
this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands
2 John 1:6
Now these commands are not burdensome if we walk in love
and the Holy Spirit, but some think they are not just burdensome
but impossible. But you have to ask do they then know Christ and
the Holy Spirit at all.
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world.
1 John 5:3-4
This verse implies if you cannot overcome the world in your heart seek God and His
righteousness, come before the cross and repent and confess your sins and you will
be born again from on high and find you can fulfill and walk in the ways of God, Amen.
if we could not have responded, or this faith was given or rose from hearing the word.
We know we responded. We also know others respond and then go astray.
It appears looking a 2 John they can veer off from the path and end up in
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God
2 John 1:9
We can find ourselves without God. It can get so bad we are
"Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist"
2 John 1:7
So the teaching we are under matters because if we sit under heresy
we become:
Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work
2 John 1:11
These are dire warnings, so we should be careful to
this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands
2 John 1:6
Now these commands are not burdensome if we walk in love
and the Holy Spirit, but some think they are not just burdensome
but impossible. But you have to ask do they then know Christ and
the Holy Spirit at all.
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world.
1 John 5:3-4
This verse implies if you cannot overcome the world in your heart seek God and His
righteousness, come before the cross and repent and confess your sins and you will
be born again from on high and find you can fulfill and walk in the ways of God, Amen.
I don't believe this was valiant's point when he said
The point was not that we need to show men in order to be justified. The point in James 2:18 is that men need to see the outward manifestation of the inward reality of faith in order to comprehend that a person has faith.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
We cannot see faith with our eyes. We can only see the effects of faith through the behavior of those who are faithful.
Just like we cannot see intellect with our eyes. We can only see the effects of intellect. we know when someone is really, really smart (like one of my sons). and we know when someone has a lower IQ (me compared to my son).
And here is a verse which states that God looks on the heart:
1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
The point was not that we need to show men in order to be justified. The point in James 2:18 is that men need to see the outward manifestation of the inward reality of faith in order to comprehend that a person has faith.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
We cannot see faith with our eyes. We can only see the effects of faith through the behavior of those who are faithful.
Just like we cannot see intellect with our eyes. We can only see the effects of intellect. we know when someone is really, really smart (like one of my sons). and we know when someone has a lower IQ (me compared to my son).
And here is a verse which states that God looks on the heart:
1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Then why is faith dead if we do not do the works of the Spirit,if it is only to be seen as justified by men.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
I think we better do works by the Spirit,which quench not the Spirit,and they better be right works.
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Then why is faith dead if we do not do the works of the Spirit,if it is only to be seen as justified by men.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
I think we better do works by the Spirit,which quench not the Spirit,and they better be right works.
The verses you quote are what we will be judged with when Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats.
Maybe James is saying "Hey wait a minute, you say you have faith but is it evident in you, can those around you see it?
I don't think James is saying here, "if we can't see works it doesn't mean you are not saved as such"
We all know that as believers it's a walk and a walk where we grow and manifest fruit of the Holy Spirit.
To me it's not be justified by men because we have been justified by God.
That being the case having placed our faith in Jesus our works will be seen by men as proof that we have placed our faith in Jesus.
I don't think Paul and James contradict each other.
It is by faith you are saved. Paul says faith saves and James says is there evidence of it?
Paul talks about works, works of love, loving your neighbour
Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Here Paul is saying the same.
James 2
[SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
- the body without a born again spirit is spiritually dead. It may look alive, walk around, go to a restaurant, party --- but it is spiritually dead.
- James compares this "lifeless" body to "Faith without works". It goes to church, sings hymn, praise songs, etc - but it is dead works. Unless you love, your faith is dead.
[h=1] 1 Corinthians 13New King James Version (NKJV)
[/h] 13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.<dead faith> [SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. <dead faith> [SUP]3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[SUP][a][/SUP] but have not love, it profits me nothing. <dead faith>
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind <true faith>; love does not envy <true faith>; love does not parade itself <true faith>, is not puffed up <true faith>; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely <true faith>, does not seek its own <true faith>, is not provoked <true faith>, thinks no evil <true faith>; [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity <true faith>, but rejoices in the truth <true faith>; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things <true faith>, believes all things <true faith>, hopes all things <true faith>, endures all things <true faith>.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails <true faith>. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abide faith, hope, love, these three <true faith>; but the greatest of these is love.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
- the body without a born again spirit is spiritually dead. It may look alive, walk around, go to a restaurant, party --- but it is spiritually dead.
- James compares this "lifeless" body to "Faith without works". It goes to church, sings hymn, praise songs, etc - but it is dead works. Unless you love, your faith is dead.
[h=1] 1 Corinthians 13New King James Version (NKJV)
[/h] 13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.<dead faith> [SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. <dead faith> [SUP]3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[SUP][a][/SUP] but have not love, it profits me nothing. <dead faith>
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind <true faith>; love does not envy <true faith>; love does not parade itself <true faith>, is not puffed up <true faith>; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely <true faith>, does not seek its own <true faith>, is not provoked <true faith>, thinks no evil <true faith>; [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity <true faith>, but rejoices in the truth <true faith>; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things <true faith>, believes all things <true faith>, hopes all things <true faith>, endures all things <true faith>.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails <true faith>. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abide faith, hope, love, these three <true faith>; but the greatest of these is love.
All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.
They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. Good works are an example of this.
We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.
The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being - like love.
In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved or Christ will kick them out of Himself which is sheer religious nonsense.
The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.
All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.
The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.
We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ. Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.
They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. Good works are an example of this.
We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.
The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being - like love.
In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved or Christ will kick them out of Himself which is sheer religious nonsense.
The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.
All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.
The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.
We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ. Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.
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