Consequences of sinning

[dcontroversal]

1 Corinthians 10New International Version (NIV)

Warnings From Israel’s History

10 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.”[a] 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died.9 We should not test Christ,[b] as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.
11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

God will always be faithful but will man in faith remain? God's gift is never lost but only can be denied by our free will.

Good example of those who were under the law......and the context is rest not salvation.....try again!

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 8:23-25New International Version (NIV)

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Seems you and Jimbo have the same type of hope....like when you buy a lottery ticket and HOPE you win....the bible's version of HOPE is a confident expectaion of something GUARANTEED......

 

[Meggido]

o.k mr. enlightened one, here is some truth for you- I am not osas because I do believe that we have free will before and after accepting Christ, so as I choose him as Savior, I could one day in-choose, which would probably mean I never really accepted Him in the first place.

now, I do 100% believe that we do not save ourselves in any way , other than believing and trusting Christ. works do not save. stumbling does not cancel salvation, because salvation is a gift from God, the N.T. makes this clear over and over. Titus 3 explains it all.

and , most of the N.T. is letters to churches and indaviduals, meant to be read as letters, not chopped apart for your or any agenda. verses were not added to them to the 1300's or so.

now, young fellow, you have some real enlightenment.

Have you ever returned a gift because it did not fit right, was not really what you wanted or any other reason?

 

[dcontroversal]

And.....
e. Our sins are judged in loss of reward (1st Corinthians 3)
f. Our sins can be judged by sickness and disease (Corinthians and DAVID)
g. Our sins can result in physical death or the destruction of the flesh (Corinthians)
h.Hebrews 10:26-27New International Version (NIV)

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Funny out of context use of Hebrews.....the whole context states and proves eternal security HAHAH hilarious you would use it to prove loss of salvation......Your very quote is clear...if YOU SIN ONCE wilfully after salvation you lose it and cannot ever get it back.....the bible does not teach that...good thing for you.....!

 

[tourist]

Seems you and Jimbo have the same type of hope....like when you buy a lottery ticket and HOPE you win....the bible's version of HOPE is a confident expectaion of something GUARANTEED......

Yes indeed, blessed assured hope.

 

[dcontroversal]

But actually 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking of the work of pastors and how not all pastors will be successful and some will even not on purpose teach false beliefs but still having the foundation right in Christ their work will be burnt up while the work of pastors who taught full truth will be rewarded richly. Its all in the context of laying the right foundation of a church and using Apollos and Paul as an example. Its all about what they built on the foundation of Christ. So actually no this doesnt relate to salvation in context at all.

Sure it does and again you miss the mark and twist it to fit your dogma....pay attention to the highlighted words and the fact that the letter was written to a CHURCH

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you asunto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Christ is the foundation
Paul, Apollos and or the Corinthian brothers ALL build on that foundation....EVERY MAN'S work will be tred by fire...my work, your work, Paul's work, Apollos' work EVERY MAN'S WORK........

Nice try.....no ceeeeegar......HOW many scriptures teach our works will be judged by GOD..........blows my mind how many twist to prove a false stance.....!

 

[Meggido]

Again the bible is clear concerning sin in a believer........

a. NO one is sinless
b. Grace out bounds our sin
c. Christ constantly mediates for those saved concerning their sin
d. The blood of Christ is applied unto ALL sin in a believer
e. Our sins are judged in loss of reward (1st Corinthians 3)
f. Our sins can be judged by sickness and disease (Corinthians and DAVID)
g. Our sins can result in physical death or the destruction of the flesh (Corinthians)

Regardless, our salvation and bith as a son or daughter of GOD is secure and sure in Christ.............the SPIRIT of a child of GOD has been born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED!

DC,
You of all people should be honest enough to tell people you believe all this, because you also believe that no personal faith of a person is required for salvation, because you believe it is the Faith of Christ Jesus that saves you, because also according to you, Faith is also a gift along with salvation and personal faith is not in a person to accept the free gift of salvation, because the gift of faith has to be given to the person

You also tout and believe that if we are disobedient in any way past a certain point God will kill us and bring us home as failure to comply with his commandments.

This is not an invitation for you to try to convince me of your false Gospel that only Christs faith saves a person. This is an invitation for you to be intellectually and spiritually honest in your conversations.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes indeed, blessed assured hope.

AMEN to that.............Faith and Hope....describe accurately in Hebrews.....Faith...the evidence of something not seen and the confident expecation of something guaranteed (HOPE)

 

[dcontroversal]

DC,
You of all people should be honest enough to tell people you believe all this, because you also believe that no personal faith of a person is required for salvation, because you believe it is the Faith of Christ Jesus that saves you, because also according to you, Faith is also a gift along with salvation and personal faith is not in a person to accept the free gift of salvation, because the gift of faith has to be given to the person

You also tout and believe that if we are disobedient in any way past a certain point God will kill us and bring us home as failure to comply with his commandments.

This is not an invitation for you to try to convince me of your false Gospel that only Christs faith saves a person. This is an invitation for you to be intellectually and spiritually honest in your conversations.

A. You should make sense when you post.
b. Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and if you knew me and actually knew what I believe you would make valid statments....FAITH unto FAITH<---it is written
c. Tout? No actually lay the truth bare<---The bible has numerous examples...The Corinthian brother cut loose for the destruction of the flesh and the Corinthian borthers who fell ASLEEP for corrupting the Lord's supper
d. Your last point is ignorant......and pointless.....refer to point a!

 

[samuel23]

I have noticed that false teachings are an attempt to get around a rough reality. Pre-trib gets us out of the tribulation, OSAS gets us out of making the effort to overcome, pre-destination gets us out of overcoming or even witnessing, NO HELL, get us out of the worry for lost souls, The ceasing of gifts, get us out of the need to be used of the Spirit, Baptism in the Spirit after salvation, allows Christians to exalt the flesh without guilt. It is like that fellow who was looking for a fountain of youth...everyone is trying to find an easy way that is not really there.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have noticed that false teachings are an attempt to get around a rough reality. Pre-trib gets us out of the tribulation, OSAS gets us out of making the effort to overcome, pre-destination gets us out of overcoming or even witnessing, NO HELL, get us out of the worry for lost souls, The ceasing of gifts, get us out of the need to be used of the Spirit, Baptism in the Spirit after salvation, allows Christians to exalt the flesh without guilt. It is like that fellow who was looking for a fountain of youth...everyone is trying to find an easy way that is not really there.

I need you to paint a few cabins with the broad wide brush you use to label your views with.......

 

[Meggido]

Your quite good at out of context or misunderstanding of scripture. Jesus does speak on abide in me and Paul has constant warnings and mentions 2 believers who had shipwrecked their Faith. Which means they fell away because we learn later in his writing Paul welcomes them back into the church. Then once we get past Pauls writings and when the church really started to see persecution and false teachers. The letters after paul speak a good bit of warning against falling away and against false teachers.
What does earnest agreement mean? And what is a seal? Has seals been broken in scripture?

All your scriptures are true for those who abide in the vine. So your point was what? Oh yah your pushing the last doctrine of Calvinism. OSAS but you also downgrade free will as I have seen you support unconditional election in other threads. Which makes your belief im osas more understandable.

RS,
DC can get away with this because he does not believe personal faith is even required for salvation, he believes that only Jesus own faith has saved him

 

[dcontroversal]

RS,
DC can get away with this because he does not believe personal faith is even required for salvation, he believes that only Jesus own faith has saved him

Proverbs 6.....You just made one of the seven listed......or maybe two!

 

[Meggido]

A. You should make sense when you post.
b. Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and if you knew me and actually knew what I believe you would make valid statments....FAITH unto FAITH<---it is written
c. Tout? No actually lay the truth bare<---The bible has numerous examples...The Corinthian brother cut loose for the destruction of the flesh and the Corinthian borthers who fell ASLEEP for corrupting the Lord's supper
d. Your last point is ignorant......and pointless.....refer to point a!

Thanks DC!

You made my point and now people can release from debating with you now, since you adhere and cling to a counterfeit cross and a false doctrine that no personal faith is required for salvation or actually ever, because it is all Jesus' faith in us all the time that gets us to heaven, well according to you and sadly many others here.

Anytime now you will barrage me with insults and call me names and other kinds of childish things and seek to keep your straw man standing with 2 Tim 2.13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

All the while ignoring the 2 verses above it which completely not only knock your straw man down, but lights him on fire and burns him into nothing.

2 Tim 2.11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a trustworthy statement:For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

 

[Meggido]

Proverbs 6.....You just made one of the seven listed......or maybe two!

This is rich, considering you do not deny what I have said, your just getting upset because someone called you out on something you like to keep guarded about your theology.

I have not violated Proverbs 6, I actually am in order with Matthew 18 with you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No one said we could with out God. Its a relationship of surrender to his will. His yoke is easy compared to hell. Being killed and persecuted for Jesus doesn't seem very light but compared to hell yes its verrry light.

You quoted from Barnes commentary. At the end of his commentary, Barnes references 1 John 5:2,3.

I pointed to those verses and expounded more fully on them.

Again, if we find God's commandments are "grievous" (burdensome, hard), that is a clear indication we are "doing it on our own".


In your post #108, you made the statement:

OSAS just trys to remove obedience out of the equation making obedience Gods action in the believer which would be loss of free will. Taking all responsibility and any relationship out of the equation because God teachs you to ride the bike but also peddles it for you too.

I happen to believe in the promise made by Jesus that the life I have been given by Him and by Father is eternal life (John 6:54, Act 13:48, Titus 1:2, 1 John 5:11,13).

In your example of riding a bike, we do not peddle alone.

And as far as obedience, God starts working on our hearts the moment we are born again. Writing His laws in our hearts and minds so that we learn those things which please Him. Do we falter every now and again? Yes. Does that mean we are not God's children? No! He is our Father and He will stick with us and chasten us, teach us, guide us, help us, comfort us, assure us, perfect us, establish us, strengthen us, settle us.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I know in my knower that I have eternal life.

 

[Meggido]

The bible tells us that the flesh and the spirit are always at war, there is no such thing as reconciliation in this life. The flesh will never concede defeat, we put to death the DEEDS of the flesh by following the spirit, we never put to death the flesh and the battle will only end when out body dies.

No the Bible tell's you the old man died with Christ and the new man was risen into newness of life. If you suggest there is a war of 2 natures going on inside of you, you need to examine yourself and read and properly understand what Paul was saying in Romans 6, 7 and 8.

The flesh only obeys who is in control. Either the mind and it's will, emotions and passions or the spirit. If the spirit of a man is following and walking with Holy Spirit and his mind has been renewed to the Word of God in all areas, the flesh is then crucified.

Paul expounds on this in Romans 6, shows us his pre-conversion state in Romans 7 and then how it is accomplished in Romans 8

This may sound harsh and I am not sure I totally agree with it, but I have heard it said by many more spiritually mature men of God than me.

If you have 2 natures fighting in you and one is trying to take control, then it is really simple.....you need to get saved.

This is no way is an endorsement of sinless perfection after conversion, which is absolute rubbish, just as fighting 2 natures all day long is.

 

[BeyondET]

A. You should make sense when you post.
b. Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and if you knew me and actually knew what I believe you would make valid statments....FAITH unto FAITH<---it is written
c. Tout? No actually lay the truth bare<---The bible has numerous examples...The Corinthian brother cut loose for the destruction of the flesh and the Corinthian borthers who fell ASLEEP for corrupting the Lord's supper
d. Your last point is ignorant......and pointless.....refer to point a!

What verse your speaking of in 1 Cor 13 that speaks of faith as a gift, it appears the whole chapter of 1 Cor 13 is of love.

 

[Ariel82]

But actually 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking of the work of pastors and how not all pastors will be successful and some will even not on purpose teach false beliefs but still having the foundation right in Christ their work will be burnt up while the work of pastors who taught full truth will be rewarded richly. Its all in the context of laying the right foundation of a church and using Apollos and Paul as an example. Its all about what they built on the foundation of Christ. So actually no this doesnt relate to salvation in context at all.

Wow...seriously? That passage doesn't apply to all Christians?

 

[Ariel82]

He isn't even talking to mature Christians much less teachers...

◄ 1 Corinthians 3 ►
English Standard Versionm

1But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?