King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?
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The KJV is the only inspired word of God for these reasons:
1. It fell out of Jesus' sleeve as he ascended to heaven.
2. It supports all my favorite doctrines including baptismal regeneration, drinking poison and handling snakes.
3. It verifies the unicorns I see on a regular basis.
4. Steven Anderson, who claims God can't save gay people, believes it is the only word of God, and he can't be wrong.
5. Peter Ruckman, who has been divorced 3 times and says that the CIA placed brain transmitters in the minds of
elderly people, black people, and children, and says that the CIA is operating alien breeding facilities, believes it, and he can't be wrong.
6. Gail Replinger, the great biblical scholars, says God revealed it to her, but has no degrees in original language, only in home economics and
interior design...advance degrees qualify her to speak authoritatively on any subject.
7. Lastly, I am an English speaking person so I don't really care about the rest of the world. They can either learn English
or go to hell.
8. I hate the younger generation so I want them to be unable to understand the message of salvation due to archaic language. Let them sweat or go to hell.
1. It fell out of Jesus' sleeve as he ascended to heaven.
2. It supports all my favorite doctrines including baptismal regeneration, drinking poison and handling snakes.
3. It verifies the unicorns I see on a regular basis.
4. Steven Anderson, who claims God can't save gay people, believes it is the only word of God, and he can't be wrong.
5. Peter Ruckman, who has been divorced 3 times and says that the CIA placed brain transmitters in the minds of
elderly people, black people, and children, and says that the CIA is operating alien breeding facilities, believes it, and he can't be wrong.
6. Gail Replinger, the great biblical scholars, says God revealed it to her, but has no degrees in original language, only in home economics and
interior design...advance degrees qualify her to speak authoritatively on any subject.
7. Lastly, I am an English speaking person so I don't really care about the rest of the world. They can either learn English
or go to hell.
8. I hate the younger generation so I want them to be unable to understand the message of salvation due to archaic language. Let them sweat or go to hell.
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Luke 8:16, for example
Now no man lighting a candle covereth it with a vessel or putteth it under a bed: but setteth it upon a candlestick, that they who come in may see the light.
(KJV)
nemo autem lucernam accendens operit eam vaso aut subtus lectum ponit sed supra candelabrum ponit ut intrantes videant lumen
(Vulgate)
Lucerna means "lamp" or "oil lamp", so I do not think the KJV took it from Vulgate.
Now no man lighting a candle covereth it with a vessel or putteth it under a bed: but setteth it upon a candlestick, that they who come in may see the light.
(KJV)
nemo autem lucernam accendens operit eam vaso aut subtus lectum ponit sed supra candelabrum ponit ut intrantes videant lumen
(Vulgate)
Lucerna means "lamp" or "oil lamp", so I do not think the KJV took it from Vulgate.
In case there's anyone too dull to recognize this, I am speaking facetiously and don't hold any of the above points. Normally I wouldn't say that, but with some crowds, they might take me seriously.
Read the "KJV Only Controversy" by James White. He knocks down the bogus claims of KJV Only people, and it's a great book to learn about textual transmission.
It's amusing to me that KJV Only people can be rabidly anti-Catholic but don't acknowledge that the Latin Vulgate was basically the only source for the wording of the Comma Johanneum. There was a 14th century manuscript but it very well could have been doctored by Roman Catholic sources.
Also they usually don't show you the love letters that Erasmus, a Roman Catholic priest, wrote to some younger man, who rejected his advances. Erasmus was the one who compiled the Textus Receptus that is the Greek New Testament the KJV was translated from.
Read the "KJV Only Controversy" by James White. He knocks down the bogus claims of KJV Only people, and it's a great book to learn about textual transmission.
It's amusing to me that KJV Only people can be rabidly anti-Catholic but don't acknowledge that the Latin Vulgate was basically the only source for the wording of the Comma Johanneum. There was a 14th century manuscript but it very well could have been doctored by Roman Catholic sources.
Also they usually don't show you the love letters that Erasmus, a Roman Catholic priest, wrote to some younger man, who rejected his advances. Erasmus was the one who compiled the Textus Receptus that is the Greek New Testament the KJV was translated from.
I found this. Don’t know how reliable it is though. May help…shed some light on things.
Exodus 25:31-40 VULA - NIV Parallel Bible
Looks like the word in question is “candelabrum”.
Exodus 25:31-40 VULA - NIV Parallel Bible
Looks like the word in question is “candelabrum”.
[TABLE="class: BORDERED, width: 2"]
[TR]
[TD="class: DARK, align: left"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
neque accendunt lucernam et ponunt eam sub modio sed super candelabrum ut luceat omnibus qui in domo sunt
[TR]
[TD="class: DARK, align: left"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
neque accendunt lucernam et ponunt eam sub modio sed super candelabrum ut luceat omnibus qui in domo sunt
In the KJV of the Old Testament the Lord is talking to aspecific group of people. In these verses,He tells the Israelite people to do specific things. I list some of them below:
(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and Iwill be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, andagainst false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in hiswages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me,saith the LORD of hosts.
(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time,saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously betweenevery man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvestin thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again tofetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God maybless thee in all the work of thine hands.
(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thoushalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for thewidow.
(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thyvineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for thewidow.
(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, thefatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neitherwalk after other gods to your hurt:
(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute yejudgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of theoppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow,neither shed innocent blood in this place.
(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by fatherand mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed thefatherless and the widow.
(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor thefatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against hisbrother in your heart.
(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye werestrangers in the land of Egypt.
(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of astranger, seeing ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be untoyou as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye werestrangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallenin decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may livewith thee.
(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time,saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously betweenevery man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of thefatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love yetherefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and Iwill be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, andagainst false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in hiswages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me,saith the LORD of hosts.
(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time,saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously betweenevery man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvestin thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again tofetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God maybless thee in all the work of thine hands.
(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thoushalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for thewidow.
(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thyvineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for thewidow.
(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, thefatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neitherwalk after other gods to your hurt:
(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute yejudgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of theoppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow,neither shed innocent blood in this place.
(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by fatherand mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed thefatherless and the widow.
(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor thefatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against hisbrother in your heart.
(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye werestrangers in the land of Egypt.
(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of astranger, seeing ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be untoyou as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye werestrangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallenin decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may livewith thee.
(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time,saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously betweenevery man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of thefatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love yetherefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the landof Egypt.
Sorry for the long list but what is, is; take it or leave it
~~~~The question I ask now is~~~
Are theIsraelites obeying His Command or not?
~~~~The question I ask now is~~~
Are theIsraelites obeying His Command or not?
I don't like playing word games, I have no problem undertanding the candlestick in the KJV.
You say that the "candlestick" represents Christ. If it is truly a candlestick, and not a lampstand, you are saying that the oil (which represents the Holy Spirit) that flows from the source to the flame is irrelevant, and that a better analogy is a wax candle. If I were to take the same approach which you took with "a son of the gods" vs. "a son of God" in Daniel, I'd say you're preaching a different Jesus.
Now, I don't take that approach, because I also understand that slight changes in wording can be understood adequately. You have argued previously that the exact words of the KJV are critical, and that minor variations in wording "can't be used by the Holy Spirit" (I disagree with your assessment, by the way). With regard to being able to speak through the text using words which are "not quite accurate", either the Holy Spirit can or He can't. You're arguing both sides of the same issue, and I call you to be consistent. Your dogmatic approach with other passages now undermines your position here.
But that's not the case here. People see candlestick and assume a wax candle holder which COULD be what is meant, but from the context of Exodus 25 it is not a wax candle, it's light holder. Candlestick in its true base meaning, especially in latin which is where I beleive the KJV translators got the word is a structure that holds something that gives off light.
The KJV translators KNEW this, and I think the more important question is why did they use candlestick... something caused them to against the normal convention of terms. In my experience, this is where the coolest things of God are found. I don't know the answer to the question YET but I have asked God about it and I truly believe that he will show me one day. God waited several years to show me why the KJV translated pascha as Easter in the book of Acts, but I asked and he did eventually show me.
The KJV translators KNEW this, and I think the more important question is why did they use candlestick... something caused them to against the normal convention of terms. In my experience, this is where the coolest things of God are found. I don't know the answer to the question YET but I have asked God about it and I truly believe that he will show me one day. God waited several years to show me why the KJV translated pascha as Easter in the book of Acts, but I asked and he did eventually show me.
While I understand your point here, I would also suggest that you are being surprisingly inconsistent. Let me demonstrate...
You say that the "candlestick" represents Christ. If it is truly a candlestick, and not a lampstand, you are saying that the oil (which represents the Holy Spirit) that flows from the source to the flame is irrelevant, and that a better analogy is a wax candle. If I were to take the same approach which you took with "a son of the gods" vs. "a son of God" in Daniel, I'd say you're preaching a different Jesus.
Now, I don't take that approach, because I also understand that slight changes in wording can be understood adequately. You have argued previously that the exact words of the KJV are critical, and that minor variations in wording "can't be used by the Holy Spirit" (I disagree with your assessment, by the way). With regard to being able to speak through the text using words which are "not quite accurate", either the Holy Spirit can or He can't. You're arguing both sides of the same issue, and I call you to be consistent. Your dogmatic approach with other passages now undermines your position here.
You say that the "candlestick" represents Christ. If it is truly a candlestick, and not a lampstand, you are saying that the oil (which represents the Holy Spirit) that flows from the source to the flame is irrelevant, and that a better analogy is a wax candle. If I were to take the same approach which you took with "a son of the gods" vs. "a son of God" in Daniel, I'd say you're preaching a different Jesus.
Now, I don't take that approach, because I also understand that slight changes in wording can be understood adequately. You have argued previously that the exact words of the KJV are critical, and that minor variations in wording "can't be used by the Holy Spirit" (I disagree with your assessment, by the way). With regard to being able to speak through the text using words which are "not quite accurate", either the Holy Spirit can or He can't. You're arguing both sides of the same issue, and I call you to be consistent. Your dogmatic approach with other passages now undermines your position here.
I'll be back later to comment on the rest of your post.
I think they are two words for the same thing a holder that holds a light source. I'm trying to understand why God had the KJV translators use both lamp and candle.
Thus, I am trying to see what the spirit has to say about the premise that all Scripture is God-breathed, so how does this work - Lord? Then, I will search the meanings of things therein in study of the facts as well led by the spirit. But I have not done that fully, because that is not what the thread is about. Nor, is it a priority in things that are important with my limited time, not that His Word being set right is not important.