Not By Works

Ariel82 · Jun 20, 2017

What is the law of liberty found in Christ?

I believe if we do anything with the pure motive to love God and others, God will use it for His glory.

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James 1

19Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 21Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

26If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless. 27Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

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How many people are really "quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger"?

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

gb9 said:

You are already putting some constraints on me.
Now for me the whole point about walking with Christ is about being stretched, changed, remade,
yet here you are saying emotions are not involved.

And this is where I stop and ask you, simply, what are you saying? You are not an emotional creature
and the cross, love, sacrifice does not stir you heart and break you?

I thought I was talking to an alive, rejoicing believer who responds to Christ with joy and praise, but
it sounds like I am talking to someone who is closed off and shut down.

Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
Psalm 51:12

Come, let us sing for joy to the Lord; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 95:1

I wrote as I did, so that when I came I would not be distressed by those who should have made me rejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy.
2 cor 2:3

Ariel82 · Jun 20, 2017

Just as I wonder at some folks need to redefine a term instead of using what the Bible calls it: fleshly/carnal/ worldly humans who lusts after the things of this world and not the things of God.

Psychopaths will never admit they are wrong or see their actions as wrong or evil at all (aka no conscience)

Sociopaths know they do wrong but do it anyway. (ignores conscience)

Normal humans choose between right and wrong actions

Children of God seek God's will and follow His light.

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

FranC said:

Slave,
Thanks for asking. It really is kind of difficult to discuss spiritual matters. That's why it's important to ask and clarify and words should never be taken for granted by the other person.

Everyone who is born again from above has the Holy Spirit,
1 Corinthians 2:15-16
1 Corinthians 2:12

There are different types of revelation.
There's general revelation. This is to the Whole Church.
There's personal revelation. This is God's word to a specific person. Sometimes when we're reading the bible some words just jump out at us. This is God speaking to us. (He speaks to us in different ways).

This is personal revelation and cannot be used for teaching. It's for us alone. Something WE NEED to know from God to help us with our daily lives. It can be SHARED, but it cannot be used to pass along for teaching.

General revelation if for everyone. But how do we know what general revelation is? Who do we depend on?

We depend on theologians of mainline churches who have studied the word of God fully. I cannot depend on a person who received some kind of message from God and breaks away from a Church to start his own.

Jesus said we are to be one and instead we have thousands of "denominations" if we count all the independent curches.

When I hear something, I Always check it with the word of God. Like the Bareans.
Acts 17:11

I don't care to hear that a person reads the word and is taught by the Holy Spirit. Different people come up with different ideas.
How are we to know who is right?

How do we know whether or not eternal security is right? Are we not all reading the same bible?

In this case, I use my common sense. This idea is a new one. The Church has lived for 1,500 years and then Calvin comes along and discovers eternal security. Maybe based on something Augustine said, who was the ONLY early theologian to believe this, BTW.

So I go back to the beginning. What did those who knew Jesus believe? What did Jesus say? What did the early believers glean from he teacings of the Apostles?

They DID NOT believe in eternal security --- so how can I?

I hope this helps. I DO BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES US.
But some good theologians will help us too !

What say you?

I say that if this is true then we better join Israel and move there. Throw out Paul.

Ariel82 · Jun 20, 2017

Sometimes I read responses to certain post and wonder if we are even speaking the same language?

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Reminds me of high school when my teacher demanded I copy the dictionary. Couldn't do that either. lol

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

A wolf has the intention on destruction of others and their exploitation.
So in every teaching if they build themselves up and pull everyone else down,
and then have a call for money to carry on the good fight, you know their fruit
is destructive and aimed at only their own ends.

I have found where the Lord is working strongest people are sent out with a
precious gift of love and encouragement to help build others up and make them
stronger in the faith. It is always about the treasure within empowering us to good
works and acts of love. This is the powerhouse of the Kingdom.

Everyone has gifts and things in Christ they can share and do, so let us share these
things and encourage each to more

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds
Heb 10:24

Ariel82 · Jun 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I say she has read biased authors.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

neither would have helped you very much either.

Ariel82 · Jun 20, 2017

Spotting false doctrines that enslave people to a lie is part of setting folks free of the chains that bind them and encourage them to God's truth and love for them.

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

A new law...to love others as He has loved us.

In this? Complete forgiveness extended to us, that breaks our selfishness...our flesh nature...and we extend the same back to others.

The law of forgiveness. As we have been forgiven. All the law is accomplished out of this heart.

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Funnily what made me wonder about this, is in churches we will have people of all dispositions.
It has been suggested that some psychopaths can learn to empathise, so though they naturally
would not understand this interaction, they can learn how to interact and compensate for their
weakness.

And the reason why it made me think about these conditions is we assume we are all alike, and
come to Christ from similar backgrounds and dispositions. So I might find something easy, yet
a struggling brother needs more support and help because some things do not come naturally.

It is also why assuming some people who naturally empathise too much have different weaknesses
to those who are very cut off or overly defensive. This is where getting to know people helps.

Just take an OCD legalist, who is always paranoid of rejection through failure will have a different
theology to a relaxed, easy going, analytical believer who wants real connection rather than rules.
Or someone who has had trauma in their life and creates a split personality, with one side is their
acceptable behaviour and the other side their wild out of control side. They will tend towards a
dualist theology, that removes blame form their spiritual side and puts it all on their flesh side.

So you see theology is not independent of our emotional and psychological dispositions, but
rather reinforces them. And these differences are not bad things, unless they become seats
of judgmentalism, where the speaker is right and the others are just unbelievers doomed to
hell, as some have a tendency to go down.

I try as best I can to understand and construct frameworks that reflect these differences and
try and bring in love and Gods perspective as He expresses it.

Funnily it appears God is saying different things to some, so this is always going to be a rough
ride, lol. God bless you all.

By the way we all have traits of all mental states, it is always a question of degree and do
we realise when we have gone too far.

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

The ten commandments are not difficult to remember and recite.
Not sure how this can be compared to a dictionary.
Love God with no other gods before him
Do not make a graven image
Do not take the Lords name in vain
Keep the sabbath
Honour your parents
Do not murder
Do commit adultery
Do not steal
Do not bear false witness
Do not covet.

Are there any principles here that are not difficult to keep?
Have we not repented of sins involved in these things?

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

Peter

One can try to do things by rote...but life in the Spirit is just that. Living out of what we have received from God- Holy Spirit. If we know we are fully forgiven, secure in Him...we will give that to others. And we will love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

This is such an extreme statement, and simply not in context to what Fran is sharing,
why say it?

My impression is to create the impression of simple dismissing someones contribution because
engagement would lead to failure, so it is easier to just be dismissive.

This is always a sad position for any believer to hold, because it is admitting defeat and wanting
to hold on to their beliefs over looking at scripture and taking their cross and suffering loss, because
to follow Christ is to put our lives on the line and face the truth and the light.

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

Also...looking back to your post...it's not individual sins that we repent of ....it's our very nature of mankind.

PeterJens · Jun 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

The ten commandments are just a beginning of understanding love and righteousness.
You are talking like a legalist and not someone lost in the wonder of the King.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 20, 2017

PeterJens said:

we can keep all these, and still be seen as a sinner.

of course, number 1, (if we are honest) should stop us in our tracks. as if we think about it, we can not even keep this one perfecty

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

I have a question Peter.

Are you a good person?

stonesoffire · Jun 20, 2017

Life in the Spirit which is a supernatural life? is legalism? Full of joy with every revelation received? legalism?

That's the first time that word has ever been applied to me. Makes me laugh. Not in scorn...just wondering how?

Not By Works

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