Not By Works
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A
He is talking to Willybob (about not understanding the article...a valid concern considering how Willy told me a passage in the Bible was not to Jesus disciples when it is pretty clearly was).,,,
, he responded to you, when you first posted and said it was a great article...just in case you missed it,
, he responded to you, when you first posted and said it was a great article...just in case you missed it,
A
It might be cliche but I believe the phrase "be the change you want to see" applies.
So many people complain about what is wrong with the. Church.., I want to hold up a mirror and ask "what do you see now?" what do you want to see changed?
Now let's read the Bible as see what God sees in you.
Show them God's love for them even while they are sinners and pray with them and see if they can find compassion for other sinners too,
It's wonderful what your aunt does.
I believe that makes a big difference: when people step out in faith and are not afraid to admit they are sinners in need of a savior.
Last Sunday our pastor preached about how we are all walking wounded. We all have hidden hurts that we need to pay at the foot of the cross and let God heal us of.
We may look at others and think they have it all together but it's not true. We are all broken and only made whole by God's love and grace,
So many people complain about what is wrong with the. Church.., I want to hold up a mirror and ask "what do you see now?" what do you want to see changed?
Now let's read the Bible as see what God sees in you.
Show them God's love for them even while they are sinners and pray with them and see if they can find compassion for other sinners too,
It's wonderful what your aunt does.
I believe that makes a big difference: when people step out in faith and are not afraid to admit they are sinners in need of a savior.
Last Sunday our pastor preached about how we are all walking wounded. We all have hidden hurts that we need to pay at the foot of the cross and let God heal us of.
We may look at others and think they have it all together but it's not true. We are all broken and only made whole by God's love and grace,
E
People walking away from the church. Why go to church when it is lifeless, When you have a sin issue you can not defeat, and you can't get help, because legalism can only judge you, not help you. You can only hide your sin so long before satan uses it to tear you down, and take you out.
In my prodigal days, I did not go to church, But if someone asked me about God, I loved hi, I knew I was saved, and I would never deny him, I just was lost in my own struggles.
In my example,
I left home to go into the military when I was 17, I felt free. I did not have to hide things anymore, I Enjoyed (or so I thought) all kinds of sin, all the things I wanted to do but was to afraid to (that's what happens when your under law) and prety much wasted many years of my life, I married a gal I should have never married, I finally did get back into church, But it was the same old stuff, having to hide so much, Then I became involved, thought that would help. But my home life was falling apart due to the military, (people do not understand the stress military puts on any family) WHen I got out, I went back to my old church, Same stuff, Only this time I was not so much worried about sins, I wanted to serve others. I taught sunday school, was involved in helping start a christian school, Ran a food pantry, Tried many things, then due to problems in the church, it crashed and burned, and split up. Again, legaism took its tole on a church.
Eventually my wife left me, And thanks to legalism, I was afraid to go to church because I was a failure, I could not even keep my family together, and we all know what God thinks about divorce, I was a sinner of all sinners..
I then fell away hard, I became a prodigal son, who left the church for 5 years.. I was angry, I was hurt, (I did not stop believing in God. or think he left me, But I was confused, and could not understand why things happened, Was it sin, Was it me, What was it,
It was not until 5 years later, My best friend, Who I helped lead to the lord when we were teens, Called me out of the blue, and my restoration started. and I started to really study and find out all the things i thought were true were legalistic hogwash, That God loved me because he created me, not because of what I did or did not do. and he wanted a real relationship with me. I was healed. I had friends I could confess my sins too, I found healing and victory over those sins, I am still to this day working as God says to be sanctified, and knowing that I have not yet made it I still need to run the race.
But my life story has me passionate about legalism, I want people to find the freedom I did. To be released from the prison that enslaves. Whether a person is saved or not, I do not know, I accepted the Lord around 7 years old, I remember it like it was yesterday, I know it changed my life for a few years, then that pastor left, and I got tore down by legalism by the pastors who followed. But I was saved, Continued to be saved even in the darkest time of my life (the footsteps in the sand picture is a reality, God realy did carry me when I thought he was gone, I just could not see it. But I see it now, My life was hard, but could have been so much worse, I am lucky to be alive)
anyway, Sorry to be so wordy, I hope this makes sense.
In my prodigal days, I did not go to church, But if someone asked me about God, I loved hi, I knew I was saved, and I would never deny him, I just was lost in my own struggles.
In my example,
I left home to go into the military when I was 17, I felt free. I did not have to hide things anymore, I Enjoyed (or so I thought) all kinds of sin, all the things I wanted to do but was to afraid to (that's what happens when your under law) and prety much wasted many years of my life, I married a gal I should have never married, I finally did get back into church, But it was the same old stuff, having to hide so much, Then I became involved, thought that would help. But my home life was falling apart due to the military, (people do not understand the stress military puts on any family) WHen I got out, I went back to my old church, Same stuff, Only this time I was not so much worried about sins, I wanted to serve others. I taught sunday school, was involved in helping start a christian school, Ran a food pantry, Tried many things, then due to problems in the church, it crashed and burned, and split up. Again, legaism took its tole on a church.
Eventually my wife left me, And thanks to legalism, I was afraid to go to church because I was a failure, I could not even keep my family together, and we all know what God thinks about divorce, I was a sinner of all sinners..
I then fell away hard, I became a prodigal son, who left the church for 5 years.. I was angry, I was hurt, (I did not stop believing in God. or think he left me, But I was confused, and could not understand why things happened, Was it sin, Was it me, What was it,
It was not until 5 years later, My best friend, Who I helped lead to the lord when we were teens, Called me out of the blue, and my restoration started. and I started to really study and find out all the things i thought were true were legalistic hogwash, That God loved me because he created me, not because of what I did or did not do. and he wanted a real relationship with me. I was healed. I had friends I could confess my sins too, I found healing and victory over those sins, I am still to this day working as God says to be sanctified, and knowing that I have not yet made it I still need to run the race.
But my life story has me passionate about legalism, I want people to find the freedom I did. To be released from the prison that enslaves. Whether a person is saved or not, I do not know, I accepted the Lord around 7 years old, I remember it like it was yesterday, I know it changed my life for a few years, then that pastor left, and I got tore down by legalism by the pastors who followed. But I was saved, Continued to be saved even in the darkest time of my life (the footsteps in the sand picture is a reality, God realy did carry me when I thought he was gone, I just could not see it. But I see it now, My life was hard, but could have been so much worse, I am lucky to be alive)
anyway, Sorry to be so wordy, I hope this makes sense.
E
If we do not admit how broken we are. I do not hink God can help us. Thats why he is so patient, He knows so many of us would never give him a second look unless we hit rock bottom, So he allows us to do just that, So we can repent, and come to him, Either as a savior (if we are not saved) or as a father (if we were saved and became prodigal children)
Hello Ariel,
Sorry for the slow reply as I can’t get to the forums as much as I would like due to work and family commitments. Your post above to me however was little bit puzzling to say the least as I was not trying to give you an outline of the Gospel. I would have hoped you already know the Gospel. I hope I was not mistaken? Actually if you look at the context, I was replying to an earlier post from you asking why all the posts from people that were talking about the need for obedience to God’s Word.
I don’t see any of these same people saying to anyone here that we believe that was are saved by our works but everyone that presents a bible verse saying that faith if it does not have works is a dead faith seems to be accused as people that believe they are saved by their works and not faith in Christ. Why is this? Do these people secretly know what is in the heart of others and their relationship with Jesus?
What is sad for me however is that there is so many people here in this thread who like to share their own opinions on what the Word of God means without even backing up what they are saying with scripture. These same people then slander others that try to share the Word of God as it seems for no other reason they attack the messenger instead of the message. This is very sad to me. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us that we should be like the faithful Bereans who received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so? (Acts 17:11).
Yes it sounds like you have your own interpretation of the parable of the sower and I believe also it was the fourth that was sown on good ground that had saving faith. This is the whole point of the parable. The discussion between the two groups I see here is about saving faith and dead faith or a faith that does not save.
In the parable of the Sower the Word of God clearly tells is what the seed is. Did you read it? We do not need to put our own interpretation on God’s Word when He clearly tells us….
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.” (Luke 8:11). Looking at the following verse it is very clear that there is a class that according to Jesus received the word of God with Joy and for a while believed but when temptation came they fall away into sin…..
“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13)
This is all that I see people have been saying to others here in this thread. Do you believe you can fall away from the Word of God by continuing in sin and not giving it up?
Let’s share the Word of God together with the Love of Jesus and put away our own opinions. Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. (Rom 3:4)
God bless you
Sorry for the slow reply as I can’t get to the forums as much as I would like due to work and family commitments. Your post above to me however was little bit puzzling to say the least as I was not trying to give you an outline of the Gospel. I would have hoped you already know the Gospel. I hope I was not mistaken? Actually if you look at the context, I was replying to an earlier post from you asking why all the posts from people that were talking about the need for obedience to God’s Word.
I don’t see any of these same people saying to anyone here that we believe that was are saved by our works but everyone that presents a bible verse saying that faith if it does not have works is a dead faith seems to be accused as people that believe they are saved by their works and not faith in Christ. Why is this? Do these people secretly know what is in the heart of others and their relationship with Jesus?
What is sad for me however is that there is so many people here in this thread who like to share their own opinions on what the Word of God means without even backing up what they are saying with scripture. These same people then slander others that try to share the Word of God as it seems for no other reason they attack the messenger instead of the message. This is very sad to me. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us that we should be like the faithful Bereans who received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so? (Acts 17:11).
Yes it sounds like you have your own interpretation of the parable of the sower and I believe also it was the fourth that was sown on good ground that had saving faith. This is the whole point of the parable. The discussion between the two groups I see here is about saving faith and dead faith or a faith that does not save.
In the parable of the Sower the Word of God clearly tells is what the seed is. Did you read it? We do not need to put our own interpretation on God’s Word when He clearly tells us….
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.” (Luke 8:11). Looking at the following verse it is very clear that there is a class that according to Jesus received the word of God with Joy and for a while believed but when temptation came they fall away into sin…..
“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13)
This is all that I see people have been saying to others here in this thread. Do you believe you can fall away from the Word of God by continuing in sin and not giving it up?
Let’s share the Word of God together with the Love of Jesus and put away our own opinions. Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. (Rom 3:4)
God bless you
A
Perhaps you and others miss the point of the thread....it is based upon the fact we are not saved by works but by faith.
It's not about folks who are Rocky ground even though you and others would make it the main topic and focus.
.it I a about what is good soil and what is the Gospel aka Word that people accept.
Too many people preach only half the Gospel and that is false,
Legalism is false and so is licentiousness.
What do you believe the Gospel to be?
How exactly is your understanding of the parable different from mine?
I know some replace the word gospel with Jesus and believe some people can lose salvation because of this misunderstanding of the parable. Does Satan steal Jesus from people? No he steals the Gospel message.
.three of those soils were never saved and did not have the Holy spirit indwelling.
It's not about folks who are Rocky ground even though you and others would make it the main topic and focus.
.it I a about what is good soil and what is the Gospel aka Word that people accept.
Too many people preach only half the Gospel and that is false,
Legalism is false and so is licentiousness.
What do you believe the Gospel to be?
How exactly is your understanding of the parable different from mine?
I know some replace the word gospel with Jesus and believe some people can lose salvation because of this misunderstanding of the parable. Does Satan steal Jesus from people? No he steals the Gospel message.
.three of those soils were never saved and did not have the Holy spirit indwelling.
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A
Fyi..,i typically ask folks the Gospel message they preach when I encounter them on CC.
Figured everyone can use the practice and most folks don't mind.
I don't assume we believe in the same gospel,though at one time we used to.
Hey we are watching undercover boss and they just said a prayer together and admitted that they were both Christian...isnt that awesome!?!
"Baja fresh"
I think this is the first time I have seen a CEO go to church in this show.
Figured everyone can use the practice and most folks don't mind.
I don't assume we believe in the same gospel,though at one time we used to.
Hey we are watching undercover boss and they just said a prayer together and admitted that they were both Christian...isnt that awesome!?!
"Baja fresh"
I think this is the first time I have seen a CEO go to church in this show.
Great testimony of the true grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and how that church teachings and false belief systems can really affect us.
I agree that it comes from having a distorted view of the gospel and from bad teaching such as IMO - such as this whole lose your salvation doctrine which to me is a complete denial of the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.
I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious "sinless perfection in the flesh" Christian life that was being preached to them by some people. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.
Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!
The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.
The Lord is bringing His beloved back to Him. Let's not have the judgmental works-based older brother who doesn't know the heart and true nature of the Father to meet them at the door of our churches instead of having the Father meet them.
I believe in preaching the love and grace of God in Christ so that believers will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ.
We need to build the firm foundation in Him first before we bring on the warning scriptures because we can speak of them in the wrong light and if we are not built on the foundation of Christ Himself and His finished work on the cross - it can cause us to become ship-wrecked and having a conflicted and tortured mind.
Speaking the warning scriptures to those with that firm foundation in Christ is needed and they should be heeded and then they become a blessing to us and keep us centered on Christ and His life and not on the flesh with it's deceitfulness.
Walk by the flesh in this life and we will bring destruction of some sort in all our lives - from living a homosexual lifestyle to outbursts of anger, to malice, to envy, to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are all in the same lists together.
Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God so that we can grow up in Christ.
EG - You are right. Some people believe by being good people, more than the bad they do
they will earn salvation. These people believe works gives them merits.
Another group want to be righteous for justification reasons,
What you are calling legalism, I would call works justification.
So I like to use legalism to be around the area of focusing on 110% fulfilling a precept.
You like to use this argument to say how we are continually trapped in sin. I have not
found unfortunately a sin which cannot be resisted or in the Spirit we cannot have victory
over. So it appears for some, just looking at the law and understanding its intention, is to
bring condemnation on oneself.
But Paul makes clear when we walk according to the Spirit we put to death the things
of the flesh. But it is rather through loving others that we find we fulfill the law rather than
trying to obey the law we find we love others.
It strikes me based on the basic responses, loving others from the heart is so alien, it is like
another world to some, and seeing how the law helps identify problems is seen rather as something
to be avoided because it shines a light on some serious issues.
Now if a believer hates coming to the light and would rather walk in darkness, how much light is
actually in the heart?
E
Yes, Works justification or justification by works would fit..
smh No peter. You still do not get it..That is not why I use that argument, I have told you so many times why I do and how I use it, But for some reason, you still fail to grasp what I, (and others who have told you the same thing) are saying.
Do you ever ask a person why they believe things, Why do you always have to think you know?
If you never even try to understand what a person is saying, You will never have a normal conversation.
Since this part is already based on error. I can only assume the rest of your post is based off this same eronious idea, so forgive me if I have no desire to read it.
lets get this part of why I talk about legalism and what I think it is first, Ok?
Amen.
"God loved me because he created me"
"not because of what I did or did not do."
"he wanted a real relationship with me"
These are so true and real. Halleluyah.
The problem comes when so many years spent in church being "good" but not really having
faith in God, does not mean everyone you meet is a works justifier like you were, or you need
to bash people around until they confess their sin.
Some people operate like this, and they are so confident in their judgements of others, based
on tell-tale signs, nothing can persuade them they might actually know the Lord.
Paul says something very simple. Walk in the Spirit, walk in love, put to death the passions of
the flesh and the old man. What is apparent even through various struggles those who stay
close to Jesus do this or they fall away. So the key issue is to not let sin get a foothold in
ones life but to walk in love and righteousness, resisting temptation.
The problem with fellowships, is taking that step beyond talking ideals and hopes, to being
real and open one with another. That is when you know faith is real or just for show.
"God loved me because he created me"
"not because of what I did or did not do."
"he wanted a real relationship with me"
These are so true and real. Halleluyah.
The problem comes when so many years spent in church being "good" but not really having
faith in God, does not mean everyone you meet is a works justifier like you were, or you need
to bash people around until they confess their sin.
Some people operate like this, and they are so confident in their judgements of others, based
on tell-tale signs, nothing can persuade them they might actually know the Lord.
Paul says something very simple. Walk in the Spirit, walk in love, put to death the passions of
the flesh and the old man. What is apparent even through various struggles those who stay
close to Jesus do this or they fall away. So the key issue is to not let sin get a foothold in
ones life but to walk in love and righteousness, resisting temptation.
The problem with fellowships, is taking that step beyond talking ideals and hopes, to being
real and open one with another. That is when you know faith is real or just for show.
EG - I understand what you are saying. Today you have said I am lying, and making up
understanding of words. This is not a normal response to a reasonable post.
I am glad you have a good witness to God in your heart, and feel loved and appreciated in
His grace. Amen. I would hope and pray you find victory in all aspects of your life and grow
more in the walk of the Spirit. Amen, God bless you.
understanding of words. This is not a normal response to a reasonable post.
I am glad you have a good witness to God in your heart, and feel loved and appreciated in
His grace. Amen. I would hope and pray you find victory in all aspects of your life and grow
more in the walk of the Spirit. Amen, God bless you.