Not By Works

[Zi]

Curiosity makes me ask why Jesus didn't just say paid in full.. if that's really what was meant

See that? "Paid in full" is only in your mind.

How could you possibly twist that post to say that?

 

[Meggido]

This coming from the one who said EG post was amazing and it's wrong??

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of what?
When people think of God as big Daddy who loves us all sooo much and forget He's King too, really go sideways

They view God is a Big Daddy is because they view the savior aspect, but not the fact he also has to be Lord & Savior.

It is easy to sit back in the grace easy chair and confess he died for your sins, but quite another to walk to the cross and put the old man on the cross and crucify him w/Christ. This means you surrender it all. This is when the Savior becomes your Lord.

Easy believing seems to imply that after conversion I do not do anything in regards to spiritual growth...it is him that changes me from everlasting to everlasting, glory to glory, faith to faith, strength to strength.....I sit back in the knowledge that Jesus own faith has saved me, therefore I am eternally secure, because God's gift of saving Faith is the faith of Jesus, not personal saving faith God gave me....I can never walk away from being eternally secure either....I will never fall into apostasy or deception, because when I have no faith, he is faithful, because he cannot deny himself...fruit bearing is irrelevant because an apple tree despite not bearing fruit is still an apple tree. Fruit bearing proves nothing about my walk with Christ...Yet Jesus said in John 15.8 it proves we are making disciples...we cannot know someone's salvation, despite scripture telling us we can....

I asked a poster pages ago what would happen if she stopped praying, reading/studying/meditating on the word, and stopped being led to make disciples for 7 days....then 7 weeks, then 7 months and during the whole time Satan is there getting through the cracks in the armor.....that this is apostasy and when falling away happens...because when you are not abiding, you are not close enough to hear him...

Never got one reply from anyone....

same for when the truth I posted that the first generation died in the wilderness and could not enter in to the literal promised land for disbelief and did not enter in to rest.....Proved that God pardoned them, which means he never left them or forsook them, yet they never entered into the literal promised land....nobody did, except for Caleb & Joshua....Numbers 13 & 14, 26 and 32 were pretty specific, then also posted that the Holy Spirit warns about the same exact thing in Hebrews 3 & 4....

Never got one reply from anyone.....

 

[Stephen63]

Believe what you will pal.....!

It is interesting in this regard that the single word that Jesus spoke (which we translate as 'It is finished') was 'tetelestai'. This certainly has the meaning of completion (which is what it primarily means in the context of John 19:30) but it can also mean 'discharge a debt' or 'paid in full'. It was common to the Jews and Romans of that time because it was the word they wrote on a debt that someone had, once it was paid. So this victory cry of Jesus would have also meant to His hearers "Paid in full!'

Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek 5055
28 Occurrences

ἐτέλεσαν — 2 Occ.
ἐτέλεσεν — 5 Occ.
ἐτελέσθη — 2 Occ.
τελεῖ — 1 Occ.
τελεῖται — 1 Occ.
τελεῖτε — 2 Occ.
τελέσητε — 2 Occ.
τελέσωσιν — 1 Occ.
τελεσθῇ — 4 Occ.
τελεσθῆναι — 1 Occ.
τελεσθήσεται — 1 Occ.
τελεσθήσονται — 1 Occ.
τελεσθῶσιν — 1 Occ.
τελοῦσα — 1 Occ.
τετέλεκα — 1 Occ.
τετέλεσται — 2 Occ.

Matthew 7:28 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐγένετο ὅτε ἐτέλεσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
INT: it came to pass when had finished JesusMatthew 10:23 V-ASA-2P
GRK: οὐ μὴ τελέσητε τὰς πόλεις
NAS: I say to you, you will not finish [going through] the cities
KJV: not have gone over the cities
INT: no not will you have completed the cities
Matthew 11:1 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐγένετο ὅτε ἐτέλεσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
NAS: Jesus had finished giving instructions
KJV: Jesus had made an end of commanding
INT: it came to pass when had finished Jesus
Matthew 13:53 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐγένετο ὅτε ἐτέλεσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
NAS: Jesus had finished these
KJV: Jesus had finished these
INT: it came to pass when had finished Jesus
Matthew 17:24 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ὑμῶν οὐ τελεῖ τὰ δίδραχμα
NAS: Does your teacher not pay the two-drachma
KJV: your master pay tribute?
INT: of you not does he pay the didrachmas
Matthew 19:1 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐγένετο ὅτε ἐτέλεσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
NAS: When Jesus had finished these words,
KJV: Jesus had finished these
INT: it came to pass when had finished Jesus
Matthew 26:1 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ΕΓΕΝΕΤΟ ὅτε ἐτέλεσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
NAS: When Jesus had finished all these
KJV: when Jesus had finished all these
INT: it came to pass when had finished Jesus
Luke 2:39 V-AIA-3P
GRK: Καὶ ὡς ἐτέλεσαν πάντα τὰ
NAS: When they had performed everything
KJV: when they had performed all things
INT: And when they had performed everything
Luke 12:50 V-ASP-3S
GRK: ἕως ὅτου τελεσθῇ
NAS: I am until it is accomplished!
KJV: till it be accomplished!
INT: until while it be accomplished
Luke 18:31 V-FIP-3S
GRK: Ἰερουσαλήμ καὶ τελεσθήσεταιπάντα τὰ
NAS: of Man will be accomplished.
KJV: of man shall be accomplished.
INT: Jerusalem and will be accomplished all things which
Luke 22:37 V-ANP
GRK: γεγραμμένον δεῖ τελεσθῆναι ἐν ἐμοί
NAS: must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED
KJV: must yet be accomplished in me,
INT: has been written must be accomplished in me
John 19:28 V-RIM/P-3S
GRK: ἤδη πάντα τετέλεσται ἵνα τελειωθῇ
NAS: had already been accomplished, to fulfill
KJV: now accomplished, that
INT: now all things have been finished that might be fulfilled
John 19:30 V-RIM/P-3S
GRK: Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Τετέλεσται καὶ κλίνας
NAS: He said, It is finished! And He bowed
KJV: he said, It is finished: and
INT: Jesus he said It has been finished and having bowed
Acts 13:29 V-AIA-3P
GRK: ὡς δὲ ἐτέλεσαν πάντα τὰ
NAS: When they had carried out all
KJV: when they had fulfilled all
INT: when moreover they finished all things that
Romans 2:27 V-PPA-NFS
GRK: τὸν νόμον τελοῦσα σὲ τὸν
NAS: uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law,
KJV: nature, if it fulfil the law,
INT: the law fulfilling you who
Romans 13:6 V-PIA-2P
GRK: καὶ φόρους τελεῖτε λειτουργοὶ γὰρ
NAS: you also pay taxes,
KJV: this cause pay ye tribute also:
INT: also taxes pay you servants indeed
2 Corinthians 12:9 V-PIM/P-3S
GRK: ἐν ἀσθενείᾳ τελεῖται Ἥδιστα οὖν
NAS: for you, for power is perfected in weakness.
INT: in weakness is perfected Most gladly therefore
Galatians 5:16 V-ASA-2P
GRK: οὐ μὴ τελέσητε
NAS: by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire
KJV: not fulfil the lust
INT: no not should you fulfill
2 Timothy 4:7 V-RIA-1S
GRK: τὸν δρόμον τετέλεκα τὴν πίστιν
NAS: fight, I have finished the course,
KJV: fight, I have finished [my] course,
INT: the course I have finished the faith
James 2:8 V-PIA-2P
GRK: μέντοι νόμον τελεῖτε βασιλικὸν κατὰ
NAS: however, you are fulfilling the royal
KJV: If ye fulfil the royal law
INT: indeed [the] law you keep royal according to
Revelation 10:7 V-AIP-3S
GRK: σαλπίζειν καὶ ἐτελέσθη τὸ μυστήριον
KJV: of God should be finished, as
INT: to sound [the] trumpet also should be completed the mystery
Revelation 11:7 V-ASA-3P
GRK: καὶ ὅταν τελέσωσιν τὴν μαρτυρίαν
NAS: When they have finished their testimony,
KJV: when they shall have finished their
INT: And when they shall have completed the testimony
Revelation 15:1 V-AIP-3S
GRK: ἐν αὐταῖς ἐτελέσθη ὁ θυμὸς
NAS: in them the wrath of God is finished.
KJV: in them is filled up the wrath of God.
INT: in them was completed the wrath
Revelation 15:8 V-ASP-3P
GRK: ναὸν ἄχρι τελεσθῶσιν αἱ ἑπτὰ
NAS: of the seven angels were finished.
KJV: of the seven angels were fulfilled.
INT: temple until were completed the seven
Revelation 17:17 V-FIP-3P
GRK: θηρίῳ ἄχρι τελεσθήσονται οἱ λόγοι
NAS: the words of God will be fulfilled.
KJV: the words of God shall be fulfilled.
INT: beast until should be fulfilled the words
28 Occurrences

Taxes, offerings, and tithes were never "paid in full". They are always owed. Paying any of these in full forever doesn't exist.

Just because someone wrote it did doesn't validate anything!

It was found in only one commentary, & no other commentary agreed with it.

So, NO..... YOU'RE WRONG.

 

[Zi]

When something can't be changed they have nothing to fire back or accuse one of denying something

They view God is a Big Daddy is because they view the savior aspect, but not the fact he also has to be Lord & Savior.

It is easy to sit back in the grace easy chair and confess he died for your sins, but quite another to walk to the cross and put the old man on the cross and crucify him w/Christ. This means you surrender it all. This is when the Savior becomes your Lord.

Easy believing seems to imply that after conversion I do not do anything in regards to spiritual growth...it is him that changes me from everlasting to everlasting, glory to glory, faith to faith, strength to strength.....I sit back in the knowledge that Jesus own faith has saved me, therefore I am eternally secure, because God's gift of saving Faith is the faith of Jesus, not personal saving faith God gave me....I can never walk away from being eternally secure either....I will never fall into apostasy or deception, because when I have no faith, he is faithful, because he cannot deny himself...fruit bearing is irrelevant because an apple tree despite not bearing fruit is still an apple tree. Fruit bearing proves nothing about my walk with Christ...Yet Jesus said in John 15.8 it proves we are making disciples...we cannot know someone's salvation, despite scripture telling us we can....

I asked a poster pages ago what would happen if she stopped praying, reading/studying/meditating on the word, and stopped being led to make disciples for 7 days....then 7 weeks, then 7 months and during the whole time Satan is there getting through the cracks in the armor.....that this is apostasy and when falling away happens...because when you are not abiding, you are not close enough to hear him...

Never got one reply from anyone....

same for when the truth I posted that the first generation died in the wilderness and could not enter in to the literal promised land for disbelief and did not enter in to rest.....Proved that God pardoned them, which means he never left them or forsook them, yet they never entered into the literal promised land....nobody did, except for Caleb & Joshua....Numbers 13 & 14, 26 and 32 were pretty specific, then also posted that the Holy Spirit warns about the same exact thing in Hebrews 3 & 4....

Never got one reply from anyone.....

 

[Grace777x70]

Personally I am a firm believer that Christians can fall from the faith. This doesn't mean that they are going to hell and their loving Father is sending them to the lake of fire.

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT="Gentium" !important]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from"

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.

People also fall away from the faith and trusting in the life of Christ and the promises of God to get life and meaning and go back to the works of the flesh to try to get life.

 

[Stephen63]

They view God is a Big Daddy is because they view the savior aspect, but not the fact he also has to be Lord & Savior.

It is easy to sit back in the grace easy chair and confess he died for your sins, but quite another to walk to the cross and put the old man on the cross and crucify him w/Christ. This means you surrender it all. This is when the Savior becomes your Lord.

Easy believing seems to imply that after conversion I do not do anything in regards to spiritual growth...it is him that changes me from everlasting to everlasting, glory to glory, faith to faith, strength to strength.....I sit back in the knowledge that Jesus own faith has saved me, therefore I am eternally secure, because God's gift of saving Faith is the faith of Jesus, not personal saving faith God gave me....I can never walk away from being eternally secure either....I will never fall into apostasy or deception, because when I have no faith, he is faithful, because he cannot deny himself...fruit bearing is irrelevant because an apple tree despite not bearing fruit is still an apple tree. Fruit bearing proves nothing about my walk with Christ...Yet Jesus said in John 15.8 it proves we are making disciples...we cannot know someone's salvation, despite scripture telling us we can....

I asked a poster pages ago what would happen if she stopped praying, reading/studying/meditating on the word, and stopped being led to make disciples for 7 days....then 7 weeks, then 7 months and during the whole time Satan is there getting through the cracks in the armor.....that this is apostasy and when falling away happens...because when you are not abiding, you are not close enough to hear him...

Never got one reply from anyone....

same for when the truth I posted that the first generation died in the wilderness and could not enter in to the literal promised land for disbelief and did not enter in to rest.....Proved that God pardoned them, which means he never left them or forsook them, yet they never entered into the literal promised land....nobody did, except for Caleb & Joshua....Numbers 13 & 14, 26 and 32 were pretty specific, then also posted that the Holy Spirit warns about the same exact thing in Hebrews 3 & 4....

Never got one reply from anyone.....

Happens to me all the time. They will all leave for a while, then come back in with a vengeance.

 

[UnderGrace]

But no amount of fear will stop sin.

Let me tell you something.... this is what scripture teaches ....

A person accepts the work of Jesus for a debt that the person cannot pay. All have sinned and our righteousness is as dirty rags...
The person is declared innocent of all charges past present and future because the debt is paid in full.

No one can be perfect like Jesus we accept His payment on our behalf.

Because of our belief in the finished work God ( who pronounces judgement) declares us innocent.
A person cannot undo the declaration of the Judge.

Therefore there is nothing to give up.

We cannot undo the judgement of God.... and that is where fear of the Lord starts and ends.

Ive yet to be corrected by Him for saying it.. relationship..

Salvation is given up by many.. totally possible.. has absolutely nothing to do with a failure on Jesus part.. Rather some just choose to not fear Him.. They keep the sin nature alive and well and go to hell because sin doesn't get into heaven.. All through the NT

 

[dcontroversal]

Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek 5055
28 Occurrences

ἐτέλεσαν — 2 Occ.
ἐτέλεσεν — 5 Occ.
ἐτελέσθη — 2 Occ.
τελεῖ — 1 Occ.
τελεῖται — 1 Occ.
τελεῖτε — 2 Occ.
τελέσητε — 2 Occ.
τελέσωσιν — 1 Occ.
τελεσθῇ — 4 Occ.
τελεσθῆναι — 1 Occ.
τελεσθήσεται — 1 Occ.
τελεσθήσονται — 1 Occ.
τελεσθῶσιν — 1 Occ.
τελοῦσα — 1 Occ.
τετέλεκα — 1 Occ.
τετέλεσται — 2 Occ.

Taxes, an offerings, and tithes were never "paid in full". They are always owed. Paying any of these in full forever doesn't exist.

Just because someone wrote it did doesn't validate anything!

It was found in only one commentary, & no other commentary agreed with it.

So, NO..... YOU'RE WRONG.

Not hardly........and all the references you give have different verb tenses, applied in different ways and are not even the same word pal....YOU cannot even be honest with the WORD USED......

“tetelestai”<----Τετέλεσται<----USED ONLY TWICE (John 19:28 and 30) and BOTH TIMES INDICATE WHAT HAS BEEN SAID and IMPLIED PAID IN FULL

You cannot even be honest with the usage of the word and post the above words to prove your stance and they are NOT EVEN the word used....WOW

 

[Zi]

No..Not at all..

But no amount of fear will stop sin.

Let me tell you something.... this is what scripture teaches ....

A person accepts the work of Jesus for a debt that the person cannot pay. All have sinned and our righteousness is as dirty rags...
The person is declared innocent of all charges past present and future because the debt is paid in full.

No one can be perfect like Jesus we accept His payment on our behalf.

Because of our belief in the finished work God ( who pronounces judgement) declares us innocent.
A person cannot undo the declaration of the Judge.

Therefore there is nothing to give up.

We cannot undo the judgement of God.... and that is where fear of the Lord starts and ends.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have said this many times about resting in Christ's work, so I will once again post my beliefs on this subject.

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[Zi]

I mean reverence not scared fear.. You completely miss what I'm saying because you need to understand the difference

But no amount of fear will stop sin.

Let me tell you something.... this is what scripture teaches ....

A person accepts the work of Jesus for a debt that the person cannot pay. All have sinned and our righteousness is as dirty rags...
The person is declared innocent of all charges past present and future because the debt is paid in full.

No one can be perfect like Jesus we accept His payment on our behalf.

Because of our belief in the finished work God ( who pronounces judgement) declares us innocent.
A person cannot undo the declaration of the Judge.

Therefore there is nothing to give up.

We cannot undo the judgement of God.... and that is where fear of the Lord starts and ends.

 

[UnderGrace]

Some do fall away but that is why God's plan is so perfect because Jesus did not fall away.

It is about His Victory ..we boast in Him and then we will have our life and breath in Him and His Grace will flow.

People who fall away are the ones who are trying to carry the cross, not really understanding what Jesus meant when He said these things, then they miss the Victory that is there for the taking.

God is so pleased when we come to Him and draw from Him as our Living Waters.

Personally I am a firm believer that Christians can fall from the faith. This doesn't mean that they are going to hell and their loving Father is sending them to the lake of fire.

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT=&quot]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from"

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.

People also fall away from the faith and trusting in the life of Christ and the promises of God to get life and meaning and go back to the works of the flesh to try to get life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This coming from the one who said EG post was amazing and it's wrong??

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of what?
When people think of God as big Daddy who loves us all sooo much and forget He's King too, really go sideways

hmm I honk God says differently, while he is our king, he is a fatherly king and wants us to come to him as children

2 Timothy 1:7 [Full Chapter]
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[dcontroversal]

Curiosity makes me ask why Jesus didn't just say paid in full.. if that's really what was meant

Post 16040, 16048 and the Greek verb tense of the word combined with ALL the other scriptures that speak to his payment for our sin.....

 

[Burninglight]

Works are the result of faith not proof of having it!

 

[Burninglight]

You can have works without faith, but you cannot have faith without eventually having works.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:22
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 5:18
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

2 Timothy 1:9
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My group? and this is all according to your perception....and the same can be said of you and 'your group" as well.....Who lied...what EG said is correct and combined with ALL the other scriptures about our sins being covered, removed, Christ as the propitiation, died for the sins of the whole world etc. proves the point......even the definition you posted states I PAY.....this is a basic 7 year old 1st grade tenant of biblical Christianity.......

I added Peter and Stephen to my ignore list, got sick of heir nonsense, so I can not see them, and it's been very peaceful

 

[Grace777x70]

Some do fall away but that is why God's plan is so perfect because Jesus did not fall away.

It is about His Victory ..we boast in Him and then we will have our life and breath in Him and His Grace will flow.

People who fall away are the ones who are trying to carry the cross, not really understanding what Jesus meant when He said these things, then they miss the Victory that is there for the taking.

God is so pleased when we come to Him and draw from Him as our Living Waters.

Yes, our Lord will be faithful and reveal His true self to all of us. I was a works-based salvationists before the Lord showed me His grace and what the gospel really was. I was taught well the works-based doctrine in the Pentecostal denomination by some well-meaning people that loved the Lord.

Religious mindsets and strongholds in our minds are deeply entrenched. We think we are "defending the truth" but we could in reality just be "defending our church teachings and traditions " handed down to us whiuch become strongholds in our un-rewned minds.

But the Holy Spirit can break through all that. He has done it to me and to thousands of others. I often hear testimonies of people, that say "It's like getting born-again - again". And I know exactly what they are saying and it is true.

I could never go back to that religion of self-performance again. The religion of self-effort and trying to achieve what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection is an extremely poor substitute for knowing Christ and the Father for who they truly are and what they have done in Christ for us.

In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins. He is our wisdom, our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption - our life - for we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3

 

[dcontroversal]

I added Peter and Stephen to my ignore list, got sick of heir nonsense, so I can not see them, and it's been very peaceful

I hear that.........probably sound, solid advice.......for sure...!