Not By Works

[FranC]

Man's heart was corrupted with the mystery of iniquity that entered into man-kind through Adam's transgression and it is passed on through the blood which is one of the reasons why Jesus had to be born from the Holy Spirit to by-pass the blood of man contaminating Him.

In the OT man's heart was desperately wicked because people were still "in Adam". The heart is the old man that was in Adam but now that Christ has came - we believers have a new heart. We have a new inner man of the heart now in Christ.

Get this wrong and we create a doctrine of a "new evolution" instead of a new creation in Christ.

We create an works-based humanistic mindset that actually denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ by trying to achieve through what we do - what Christ has already done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

In the next post I will show that believers in Christ have a new heart now. I believe the understanding of this is vital to growing up in the Lord. We need to get our "identity" correct.

Grace,
There is no "evolution".
Man's nature will never change.
There's nothing new under the sun.
With all our technology, WE are still the same as in Adam's time.

Jesus wanted a new "type" of person.
One with a soft heart and with both feet in the Kingdom.
Not easy to do.

And not every Christian has a soft heart.
It's noticeable right here on these threads.
Some are rather harsh and critical. Both on this thread and elsewhere.

I feel it's important to tell people that THEY must work on becoming more and more like Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is there to help, but will not do all the work.

If He did, why aren't we all the same??

 

[FranC]

All born-again Christians are pure in heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heartto that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forththe Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

There is also the renewing of the mind to the truths that are real in Christ for us that are joined as one spirit with the Lord forever.

I'm never sure your reply is to me.

Also, they're so long it's difficult to concentrate on any one concept.

You say that we are not in the flesh but in the spirit.

So DO YOU NEVER SIN?

If you do, then you're also in the flesh...

 

[Grace777x70]

All of us that are walking by the flesh from time to time are not living from their hearts in Christ - that is a gimmie!

( And no - our loving Father doesn't send us to hell or the lake of fire because we walk by the flesh - we will experience destruction of some form while in this earth whether we are living a homosexual lifestyle or exhibiting malice towards others or being jealous and envious, whether we are being deceitful in mis-representing what others are saying or the slandering of others in the body of Christ. )

Never confuse the flesh with the new creation that is in Christ - the inner man of the heart. We are not the flesh but in the spirit ( if Christ is in us - Rom. 8:9-10 ) but we are responsible with what we do with our bodies now.

This is why it is vital to learn how to walk "by" the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires and experience the inheritance that is ours in Christ because we are His children.

What a blessing when the Lord comes and gives us new bodies that has no more the law of sin still in it. ( Rom. 7:23 )

 

[mailmandan]

JFAITH DOES MEAN OBEDIANCE.

Faith means believing, trusting, relying and obedience which follows and is produced out of faith is works. Accomplishing multiple acts of obedience throughout our lifetime is a manifestation of our faith, but not the origin of it.

If someone died the same day that they genuinely placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (like the thief on the cross) and was unable to accomplish multiple acts of obedience afterwards (the thief was not even able to get water baptized prior to his death on the same day of his conversion) yet he still had faith.

You couldn't say that the thief did not accomplish multiple acts of obedience before he died and faith is in essence, multiple acts of obedience, so the thief did not have faith.

 

[MattforJesus]

I'm never sure your reply is to me.

Also, they're so long it's difficult to concentrate on any one concept.

You say that we are not in the flesh but in the spirit.

So DO YOU NEVER SIN?

If you do, then you're also in the flesh...

But that is the problem with some people is they think they are spiritual,and right with God,when they engage in sin,but to be carnally minded is death,but to be spiritually minded is life,and those led of the Spirit,do not want sin,and can abstain from sin,that is why they are led of the Spirit,and only then are we spiritual,for if we sin then we are being carnal at the time,and operating by the flesh,until we get rid of the sin.

But they think they are spiritual minded,spiritual,led by the Spirit,even when they engage in sin,which is why they say sin does not affect their relationship with God,which I want to be serious,and not dog them out,but that is hysterical laughter time.

That does not make sense for God said,do not err concerning this,blessed is the person that endures temptation,and does not sin,for then they will receive the crown of life,given to all the saints who love Christ,so this is eternal life.Blessed is those who do not sin.

And some have form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning,but never coming to the truth that sin does affect their relationship with God,which is why it mentions sins in their life,but they think they are alright with God.

We are not spiritual when we sin,and we are not spiritual until we give up the sin,and we might sin,but then we are back to carnally minded,and under the law,until we repent of it,not want sin,and allow the Spirit to lead us,and then we are spiritual,and not under the law.

We can be forgiven of all sins,and someone led of the Spirit can sin,but it is because they want to sin,but we cannot say we are spiritual even when we sin,and that sin does not affect our relationship with God,whoops,I spit my milk on the computer.I have to stop bringing that up,because it is so funny,for it does not make sense.

 

[Ariel82]

WHAT are the man-made laws and traditions that you feel are being added on that try to enslave?

And what makes you think anyone is speaking about these?

I think that this is why you feel I read into wording, because maybe YOU do it and so you feel I do also.

I take everything at face value.
Since I didn't bring up any particular laws, let alone man-made laws, WHY WOULD YOU??

Actually I have never accused you of adding man-made traditions and laws into your posts.

However your buddies have on other threads and you ignore the fact that many times what they say is NOT what YOU say.

 

[Ariel82]

Just two comments:

1. Free Will, when discussing the bible, means exactly what you said it does. Freedom to choose good or evil.

2. It's the sentence I highlighted above which could cause much confusion.
I know what you mean, but I'd be careful with words for new Christians and those reading along.

This is my Whole point. You just stated that it is NOT necessary to obey God's Laws.

FAITH DOES MEAN OBEDIANCE.

If you have faith in a person, and he tells you what to do, you do obey him. You obey your boss at work. You obey your husband. You obey your kids many times! You obey your parents.

Why make statements that make it sound like it's not necessary to obey GOD???

Keep reading.

Folks are only confused when they read half the message.

"I believe faith means to trust fully in God and His ability to save us. This trust will lead us to obey Him because he will add to our faith"

Do you disagree with the above statement?

I say you add to my words that I tell people to be disobedient to God's laws and it's not necessary.
.I have said no such thing.

.I have told people if they have faith and trust fully in God He will lead them to obey His commandments to love God and love one another.

Why are you tearing into me for the fact you only read half of my statement?

 

[Ariel82]

**faith (complete trust in God) is the beginning...self control & perservance unto godliness (through chastenment and teaching by the Holy spirit) the middle....brotherly kindness and agape love is maturity in Christ.

.May we all become mature in Him.

 

[mailmandan]

Biblical definition of faith - Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith "is" the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Notice the writer of Hebrews did not say that faith "is" multiple acts of obedience or faith "is" works. The writer of Hebrews goes on to list multiple acts of obedience that were accomplished "by" or "out of" faith, yet these acts of obedience/works are the fruit of faith and not the essence of faith.

Faith involves belief, trust, reliance which results in obedience/good works, yet even though all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful.

 

[Ariel82]

**faith (complete trust in God) is the beginning...self control & perservance unto godliness (through chastenment and teaching by the Holy spirit) the middle....brotherly kindness and agape love is maturity in Christ.

.May we all become mature in Him.

If people have a hard time trusting God, why would you force them to walk past where God has them at 5his point in their life.

They need milk. They need to know how much God loves them.

When they are teenagers they need meat and the ability to discern good and evil. Encouragement to walk righteously with God.

When they are full age, they are given a ministry and joined with the body of Christ to encourage others and shine a light into a dark world.

.even babes and teenagers are wiser in spiritual matters than anyone in the world without the Holy spirit, but mature Christians....that's something special because you can see how they have walked with GOd in their humbleness and love for others.

You won't find them tell everyone they are appointed prophets and all should worship them or give them money...those are wolves out to fleece the sheep.

.they will be the ones in the kitchen,washing the dishes after feeding the homeless. They are the ones cleaning the toilet or mopping the throw up, because some one has to do it.

Servant leadership..,, I wonder how many people knows what it means and live it in their own lives?

 

[blue_ladybug]

.........................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Biblical definition of faith - Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith "is" the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Notice the writer of Hebrews did not say that faith "is" multiple acts of obedience or faith "is" works. The writer of Hebrews goes on to list multiple acts of obedience that were accomplished "by" or "out of" faith, yet these acts of obedience/works are the fruit of faith and not the essence of faith.

Faith involves belief, trust, reliance which results in obedience/good works, yet even though all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful.

this should be important for all to see,

faith is assurance, not an idea that maybe something will happen, but an assurance

faith is conviction of things not seen, that is significant, especially since a work is something you can see, you can measure,

 

[blue_ladybug]

..............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.........................

View attachment 171611

which is why it is so hard, people do not like to give control to others, that's why faith salvation is so fought against, and attacked,

we we are fools if we give complete control of our destination to someone we can not see, or fools if we think a mighty God will just take us on faith alone, we have to work to earn it!

 

[blue_ladybug]

But God isn't "others". God is GOD. Others don't matter..

which is why it is so hard, people do not like to give control to others, that's why faith salvation is so fought against, and attacked,

we we are fools if we give complete control of our destination to someone we can not see, or fools if we think a mighty God will just take us on faith alone, we have to work to earn it!

 

[Ariel82]

FranC, if you want an example of people adding man-made laws and traditions to God's two commanments, you can talk to the folks in this thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154485-truth-behind-law.html


Most are Hebrew roots and Saturday Sabbath keepers.

Not that I am saying they aren't followers of Jesus and some may actually be born again. Just that they have alot of man-made tradition and laws that they REQUIRE folks DO. Many support people keeping the Jewish feasts as well.

 

[Ariel82]

This one is a little more obvious about folks who want to recreate Sabbath keeping laws..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149862-sabbath.html

 

[Ariel82]

This one is a little more obvious about folks who want to recreate Sabbath keeping laws..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149862-sabbath.html

This Fran is why I make a distinction because I know you don't advocate Sabbath keeping on Saturday.., but you asked about man made laws...

And how do you know you live for GOD the way He wants you to if you will not be instructed by Him on the day HE has chosen ?
Scripture tells us that His ways and thoughts are much higher than ours....when, where and how will you learn ? You may well have the right ideas but they are just YOURS, they are not the way GOD wants you to do. If we want to be Sons of God we must learn OBEDIENCE as Jesus did Heb 5v8,9.

 

[mailmandan]

This one is a little more obvious about folks who want to recreate Sabbath keeping laws..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149862-sabbath.html

There is an elderly man on my mail route who has given me literature from his church regarding the Sabbath day and he once tried to persuade me to tell my employer that I cannot work on Saturday because it's the Sabbath day and he told me that if I continue to work on Saturday then my salvation will absolutely be in jeopardy.

 

[dcontroversal]

The only way to have a pure heart is for God to create it in us. Otherwise, it ain't happening. David said create in me a clean heart oh God and renew a right spirit within me. Only God can do that. With all due respect, you seem to imply we must do what only God can. If that is the case, you are leading people away from Christ sorry to say... Does anyone else see it this way?

You would have to be blind to not see it.....he pushes "Cainology" while compartmentalizing sins into boxes...one box causes the loss of salvation and the other box equates to messing up or making a mistake.....oblivious to the fact sin is sin and a little white lie is as bad as murder because BOTH equal SIN........