Not By Works

[Ariel82]

We don't know if someone else has the Holy spirit or not but we can know if we do.
.We can look at scripture, look that our life and see how God is changing our heart and mind to mirror Christ love for others and how our relationship with God gets deeper and how the fruit of walking with the Holy spirit manifests in our lives.

God shows us we are His kids by chastening and teaching us.

 

[PeterJens]

Nah Peter, my kids know if mom's not happy they aren't gonna have a good day.

But I also teach them that forgiveness is easily obtained and believe they should understand repentance.., we have to help train their minds to think as God wants us to think: love and concern of others, not selfishness.

Interesting idea. We are teaching our children forgiveness and repentance, when we leave it to
God to teach others the same lessons.

I taught them or enforced saying sorry. Not because they wanted to, but because they needed
to say sorry for the harm they had done. We prayed with them, said grace over every meal,
and invited them to church, as long as they wanted to go.

Repentance has to come from within, so I cannot teach someone this, and I never wanted their
response to God be because of me forcing anything. I will lead by example and say sorry when
I get it wrong, and try and make up for my failings.

But each to their own style, as this is a reflection of who the parent is and their relationship with
their kids. There are no guarantees, but I know there is so much need and lack of love in this
fractured and hurting world even with so much wealth and choice all around.

 

[Stephen63]

But people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,has God begun a good work in them,for many are called,but few are chosen,and no person calls Jesus Lord but by the Holy Ghost,and not everyone that says Lord,Lord,will be able to dwell with Jesus,and they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof.

Everybody that claims Christ as Lord can only do so by the Holy Ghost,and many are called,but has God begun a good work in them for them to be chosen.

Everybody that claims the Bible believes what they believe is the way to salvation,but did God begin a good work in them to start,for many are called,but few are chosen.

Can you explain abstaining from sin?

Are you saying 100%, or "mostly", or what?

 

[Ariel82]

Interesting idea. We are teaching our children forgiveness and repentance, when we leave it to
God to teach others the same lessons.

I taught them or enforced saying sorry. Not because they wanted to, but because they needed
to say sorry for the harm they had done. We prayed with them, said grace over every meal,
and invited them to church, as long as they wanted to go.

Repentance has to come from within, so I cannot teach someone this, and I never wanted their
response to God be because of me forcing anything. I will lead by example and say sorry when
I get it wrong, and try and make up for my failings.

But each to their own style, as this is a reflection of who the parent is and their relationship with
their kids. There are no guarantees, but I know there is so much need and lack of love in this
fractured and hurting world even with so much wealth and choice all around.

I think the most powerful words besides "I love you" we can say to our kids is "I am sorry, please forgive me"

It shows that we can humble ourselves and admit to making mistakes.

I think our kids learn how to pray by hearing us pray and watching what we do in our lives more than what we try to just tell them.

They pick up our good and bad habits.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EkLq1zwWmec

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I just wondering if you had an insight into why some people accept the Gospel and why some people don't?

Some would say Calvin knows the answer.

 

[mailmandan]

we are saved yes but not the done deal untill its over...

We "have been" saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) and we will be saved from the PENALTY of sin (glorification) when it's all over.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[dcontroversal]

We "have been" saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) and we will be saved from the PENALTY of sin (glorification) when it's all over.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

AMEN and I agree brother......!

 

[Meggido]

The belt of truth is part of our spiritual armour.., it is sound doctrine..that's what protects us from getting gutted.

it also holds the rest of the armor together....

 

[Meggido]

I never said anything about licentious or lascivious "grace" - that's your own wording.

I said - I don't believe in living licentiously. I have said over 100x times that the true grace of God in Christ's finished work when preached correctly will "teach" us how to live godly in this present life.

An example of these doctrine of demons was shown in Paul's writing in 1 Tim. 4:1-6 when he said that some would depart from the faith.

All works-based believers as well as those living in out-right rebellion are "departing from the faith" whether they see it or not. People are free to believe what they want about this subject and whatever their church teachings have taught them.

Departing from the faith is living from our own self-effort and that includes outright sinning as well as trying to create and maintain our own righteousness.

It is an anti-Christ belief system that is based on this world's way of thinking. The church is full of this type of believing as can be seen in these threads day after day.

As far as "turning the grace of God" : It is talking about "replacing grace" for something else in it's place.

The word for "turn" in Jude 1:4 means to "replace" or "in place of" or " to transpose"...people are replacing the grace of God for something else.

It does not mean that people are "turning" grace into lewdness or licentiousness as the KJV seems to look like it is saying.

It has nothing to do with so-called easy believism/OSAS believers using grace as a license to sin which is constantly being accused of. Paul was slanderously accused of the very same thing when he taught grace.

Here are some scriptures where the exact same Greek word is used to see how it is used. You can readily see that the word means to transpose or to exchange from one place to another.

Acts 7:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "From there they were removed to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.

Galatians 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


Here is what the Greek word means:

"To transpose, put in another place and hence to transport, transfer"

Complete Word Study Dictionary, The - The Complete Word Study Dictionary – New Testament.

thanks for the clarifications Bruce...

 

[willybob]

5) God’s “divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life” (2 Peter 1:3; cf. Romans 8:32). Salvation, then, is not just a ticket to heaven. It is the means by which we are sanctified (practically) in this life and by which we grow in grace.

6) Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all. Christ demands unconditional surrender to His will (Romans 6:17–18; 10:9–10). Those who live in rebellion to God’s will do not have eternal life, for “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble” (James 4:6).

7) Those who truly believe in Christ will love Him (1 Peter 1:8–9; Romans 8:28–30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). And those we love we long to please (John 14:15, 23).

this is true Stephan.....those who perceive they can be in the wilful rebellion of sin, and still be saved are the prideful.... this was the case with the Pharisees who believed their religion and flesh genetics could save them......be blessed

 

[willybob]

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.

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[TD]Proverbs 28-13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.[/TD]
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[Magenta]

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[TD]Proverbs 28-13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.[/TD]
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Would you say that those who live in unrepentant sin are not saved? People who repeatedly lie and falsely accuse others and refuse to admit their errors when pointed out? Those are fairly egregious sins that need to be repented of.

 

[Zmouth]

Kinda ironic that only those who believe that faith is something man has naturally are the same ones who believe that salvation is the gift of God which comes without works.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom 4:5

Since faith is substance of thing(s) hoped for, the evidence of thing(s) not seen then if that is what they believe then if that is their faith then it seems the ungodly wouldn't even have to believe anything and yet would be justified before God. But of course if works are not necessary, then that reminds me of the passage in Philippians 2:12: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:12

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:13


Of course, it is mute point since we are saved by hope according to Romans 8:24, not by faith for hope that is seen is not hope, for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

 

[Magenta]

Kinda ironic that only those who believe that faith is something man has naturally are the same ones who believe that salvation is the gift of God which comes without works.

Of course, it is mute point since we are saved by hope according to Romans 8:24, not by faith for hope that is seen is not hope, for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

By hope in what? Not our own works, surely. It is hope in Jesus and His promises to those who believe on Him. I doubt anyone really thinks that faith is something anyone has naturally. Naturally we are born enemies to God and are in need of supernatural Spiritual regeneration that is the work of the Holy Spirit of God. PS~ I think you mean "moot," not "mute."

 

[PeterJens]

Love finds a way.

When we want God given to us in this box and not that one, he finds a third one
where His treasure is.

To be like Jesus, oh what glory that will be, when our glasses are full and we know
the fulfillment of promise. This can only be achieved in the Spirit, so do not wonder
at others, but desire to walk by the power of the cross and the Spirit. You will know
where you are as you walk in His ways, God bless you all.

 

[PeterJens]

so, have you resolved and worked thru all your sins?? since you won't speak truth on his matter, i'll answer for you- no you have not, and neither has any human being on earth.

it is perfectly acceptable to speak against sin, as long as one does not think he does not comment any........

This is a faith alien to me. If you say something that is impossible to know, it is a faith
position.

Now the lie within this faith position is God is not interested in us working through our
sins, but this is wrong. He wants us to see everything, to know why this sin or that is
evil and how to minister love to people despite their issues.

Take a for instance. Ptsd in soldiers can lead to total sexual immoral behaviour
where someone will have 3 separate partners in one evening. They have lost touch
with intimacy and care and are spiralling out of control.

So repentance is not the simple answer but recognising a life shattering experience.

So much is connected, it is not a list of wrongs to right, it is about love, graciousness,
value, hurt, understanding, a walk where you begin to feel with the Lord who you are
and answer, the where the needs are. Everything we do, we do with feeling, finding that
often reveals the person within. What you will often discover is a victim, who needs
Jesus's embrace. This my dear friends is the power of the cross.

 

[PeterJens]

Want to comment on this sin Peterjens...does it apply to women too?

Matthew 5:27-28New King James Version (NKJV)
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,[a] ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

My friend, this makes me cry. What pain is driving this none question, as the answer is
obvious. Sex is so personal and intimate, so much value, the source of what brought us
into being and also a deep need to be known, loved and cared for.

So often the adventure of the unknown seems better than the disappointment of what we
have, but like many dreams it is just a feeling. I have seen people go from affair, to marriage,
to affair, divorce, marriage 3 x and still they could not see the dream they chased.

 

[Grace777x70]

thanks for the clarifications Bruce...

All of us only know in part and Paul said "Those that think we know something - they don't know it as they ought to."

None of us manifest all that Christ is in our new creation yet - the inner man in Christ - as we have this treasure in an earthen vessel and we still see darkly in some areas.

If I ever hear someone saying " We can sin all we want because we are under grace." I would tell them - "You are not under grace at all no matter how much you say that "term" because true grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world."

The true grace of God in Christ will never leave us in the same condition it found us in. In saying that - I don't believe in the watering down of the true gospel message of the total forgiveness of sins. Only the gospel has the power of God for salvation.

If we would preach and teach the true gospel like the apostles did - then the true Christians would have the proper nutrients to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and manifest His life to a hurt and dying world that needs to see our loving Father's and Lord's love and grace towards them.

I firmly believe in the warning scriptures and they should be heeded if we want to experience His life while we are on this earth. But without the proper foundation in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - the warning scriptures can be used by others to beat the sheep up and to try to control and "dictate" the life of Christ - instead of allowing the life of Christ to manifest in them.

I know you and I have the same heartbeat for people to walk in the truth of our Lord. Bless you my precious brother.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some would say Calvin knows the answer.

There is only one right answer.

PRIDE!

 

[Ariel82]

There is only one right answer.

PRIDE!

I think that was tongue in cheek....


Plus I thought the only right answer is

JESUS!