Why do we have to suffer?

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Hi, please forgive me if what I say sounds harsh, my posts aren't meant to be harsh.

The gospel is not Jewish, the O.T. is not Jewish, and the 10 commandments are not Jewish. The garden of Eden is not Jewish, the earth is not Jewish, and heaven is not Jewish. Christianity is not Jewish, the shape of the cross is not Jewish. God is not Jewish.

Abraham -> Isaac -> Jacob (who then became known as Israel) -> 12 sons.

Here is the list of tribes:

Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Issachar
Zebulun
Joseph - Double portion inheritance (Ephraim and Manasseh)
Benjamin

Since Abraham and Isaac and Israel were not Jewish, can we all finally agree that Jewishness is irrelevant to God being loving or wanting to save man? Since God loves Adam, and Adam is not Jewish, can we finally put this to rest?

No matter what happened to the descendants of these children, mixing or migrating, they are still children of Israel.

The person who just hurled half a dozen insults at me in as many sentences is called Issachar92, yet is bragging about Jewishness. That's so ironic and silly. Did Issachar brag that he was Judah? The tribe of Asher is just as much Israel as Judah. God's promises are never broken. The people who God's promised are still 'elect' for God's sake but they really need Lord Jesus. They can't live by works or the law of the O.T., they need grace.

I honestly believe that the land known as Israel in the middle east was named that by the adversary to confuse people.

Add to that the fact that someone from 1/12th of the tribes of Israel are constantly whining if you bring up the fact that there are 11 other tribes given promises by God. "Jews are God's chosen people", well tell that to Abraham who is God's friend and received great promises and who wasn't a Jew or Israelite.

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Issachar92 said:

Yup, I go hard on judaizers. You seem to throw out the baby with the bath water.
I am against the works of the law justifying someone in front of God. Only faith in Jesus can do that.

I've never ever boasted about being a Jew, in fact I have told you multiple times that in Christ there is neither jew nor gentile. But the hatred you have for the jews needs to be addressed, if you claim Jesus wasn't a Jew, buddy you got a different Jesus on your hands.
Also you keep talking about the Israeli flag, listen buddy, I didn't design the flag allright, if I could choose i'd use the menorah so there is that. Don't worry Jesus will fix the flag issue once He returns to the Mount of Olives.

I would like you to find even one quote where i've boasted about ethnicity? Never have I done so, ive actually been against that too....
I dunno what else I can say to you, you keep coming up with the same lies and false accusations and I keep telling you my position which is simple: IN CHRIST there is no Jew nor Gentile. Jews are not special. However, God promised that during the time of Jacob's trouble a bunch of them peoples you hate will have the veil removed from their eyes and they will find Jesus the Messiah. Why is that a problem to you? It is simply about GOD and what He has said will happen.

This is what the Bible teaches:

Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

After your stupid accusations and nonsense, I'm not reading any of the rest.

Issachar92 · Jul 4, 2017

I am very well aware that there are 12 tribes....... As is everyone else. You have heard people say "the 144 000 Jews in revelation" even thuogh it mentions many tribes other than Judah, its just the way language works these days, Israel and Jews being similar. Paul called himself a Jew and he was from the tribe of Benjamin(Benjamin being part of the southern Kingdom of Judah), and you keep using the false accusations, i have never boasted why are you saying that over and over again? WHERE HAVE I BRAGGED? put up or shut up.

You said "I honestly believe that the land known as Israel in the middle east was named that by the adversary to confuse people." That tells me all I need to know. Prophecy fulfilled is the work of the adversary? Wow.

You just exposed yourself. I realize you are either just too consumed by hatred, playing dumb on purpose or just another cookie cutter who cannot deal with sound doctrine and basic milk truth of Scripture.

I pray you get released from that bondage of hatred and find the truth one day. God bless you. Guess you'll just have to wait and see what/who Jesus really is when He fulfills Acts 1:6-11.

mcubed · Jul 4, 2017

We suffer because of the fall. It’s really that simple.

As G-d’s children we suffer less because Messiah intervenes on our behalf. Don’t get me wrong children and adult Christians still suffer rape, physical abuse and other unspeakables… I know…but when we come boldly to His thrown we receive His mercy. We can be healed and filled with Him in His presence, even here on earth by worship. (there is nothing that can compare) But non-the less the world is dyeing and decaying because sin brought death. Soon and very soon when we see the King, there will be no more sorrow, there will be no more death (physical, mental, and emotional). This is what it’s all about! Clear back to the feast of Sukkot to Peter saying we look forward to the Day of G-d….

Those who do not know G-d, Messiah and not written in the Book of life. No earthly suffering is greater than that!!!!

Yeraza_Bats · Jul 4, 2017

DustyRhodes said:

I don't believe there are too many thinks in this thread that are
actually true. Not being critical but I'd like to post these few
verses that substantiate why suffering is not punishment.

2 Corinthians 12:10

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

1 Peter 3:14

But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED

1 Peter 5:10English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
Romans 5:3-5English Standard Version (ESV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Ive seen multiple posts that said this, in fact you for real just took what jb already posted.

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Hi Zen,

I'm not offended. But I believe you are mistaken. God is the one who changed Jacob's name to Israel.

Genesis 32:28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.”

And also, Genesis 35:9-12
Then God appeared to Jacob again when he came from Paddan-aram, and He blessed him. God said to him,“Your name is Jacob;
You shall no longer be called Jacob,
But Israel shall be your name.”
Thus He called him Israel. God also said to him,
“I am God Almighty;
Be fruitful and multiply;
A nation and a company of nations shall come from you,
And kings shall come forth from you.
“The land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac,
I will give it to you,
And I will give the land to your descendants after you.”

And for the nation Israel -
Genesis 33:18-20 Now Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, when he came from Paddan-aram, and camped before the city. He bought the piece of land where he had pitched his tent from the hand of the sons of Hamor, Shechem’s father, for one hundred pieces of money. Then he erected there an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel.

Thereafter the descendants of Jacob (renamed Israel by God) were called the son's of Israel.

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

Look at how many times the land of Israel is referenced.

The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.”[Genesis 12:7]
“All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever.”[Genesis 13:15]
“Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”[Genesis 13:17]
He also said to him: “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”[Genesis 15:7]
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ...”[Genesis 15:18]
“The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”[Genesis 17:8]
“The Lord ... spoke to me (Abraham) and promised me on oath, saying, ‘To your offspring I will give this land ...’”[Genesis 24:7]
“... to you (Isaac) and your descendants I will give all these lands and will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham.”[Genesis 26:3]
“May He give you and your descendants the blessing given to Abraham, so that you may take possession of the land where you now live as an alien, the land God gave to Abraham.”[Genesis 28:4]
... “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you (Jacob) and your descendants the land on which you are lying.”[Genesis 28:13]
“The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you (Jacob), and I will give this land to your descendants after you.”[Genesis 35:12]
Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty ... said to me ... ‘I will give this land as an everlasting possession to your descendants after you.’”[Genesis 48:3-4]
... Joseph said ... “God will ... take you up ... to the land He promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”[Genesis 50:24]
“I also established My covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens.”[Exodus 6:4]
“And I will bring you to the land I swore with uplifted hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. I will give it to you as a possession ...”[Exodus 6:8]
“When you enter the land that the Lord will give you as He promised ...”[Exodus 12:25]
“When the Lord brings you into ... the land He swore to your forefathers to give you ...”[Exodus 13:5]
“After the Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as He promised on oath to you and your forefathers ...”[Exodus 13:11]
“Honour your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”[Exodus 20:12]
“Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom You swore by Your own self: ‘... I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”[Exodus 32:13]
... the Lord said to Moses, “Leave this place, you and the people you brought up out of Egypt, and go up to the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’”[Exodus 33:1]
“When you enter the land of Canaan, which I am giving you as your possession ...”[Leviticus 14:34]
“You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the Lord your God ...”[Leviticus 20:24]
“When you enter the land I am going to give you ...”[Leviticus 23:10]
“When you enter the land I am going to give you ...”[Leviticus 25:2]
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.”[Leviticus 25:38]
“... Why do you tell me to carry them ... to the land You promised on oath to their forefathers?”[Numbers 11:12]
“Send some men to explore the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites ...”[Numbers 13:2]
... the nations ... will say ... “The Lord was not able to bring these people into the land He promised them on oath ...”[Numbers 14:15-16]
“... not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers ...”[Numbers 14:23]
“Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home ...”[Numbers 14:30]
“... After you enter the land I am giving you as a home ...”[Numbers 15:2]
But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “... you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”[Numbers 20:12]
“Aaron ... will not enter the land I give the Israelites ...”[Numbers 20:24]
“... see the land I have given the Israelites.”[Numbers 27:12]
“Why do you discourage the Israelites from going over into the land the Lord has given them?”[Numbers 32:7]
... they (the spies) discouraged the Israelites from entering the land the Lord had given them.[Numbers 32:9]
“... not one of the men ... who came up out of Egypt will see the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ...”[Numbers 32:11]
“Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess.”[Numbers 33:53]
“Command the Israelites and say to them: ‘... the land that will be allotted to you as an inheritance ...’”[Numbers 34:2]
“See, I have given you this land. Go in and take possession of the land that the Lord swore He would give to your fathers – to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – and to their descendants after them.”[Deuteronomy 1:8]
“See, the Lord your God has given you the land. Go up and take possession of it as the Lord, the God of your fathers, told you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.”[Deuteronomy 1:21]
... they ... reported, “It is a good land that the Lord our God is giving us.”[Deuteronomy 1:25]
“Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers ...”[Deuteronomy 1:35]
“... your children ... will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.”[Deuteronomy 1:39]
“... the descendants of Esau ... destroyed the Horites ... and settled in their place, just as Israel did in the land the Lord gave them as their possession.”[Deuteronomy 2:12]
“... until we cross the Jordan into the land the Lord our God is giving us.”[Deuteronomy 2:29]
“The Lord your God has given you this land to take possession of it ...”[Deuteronomy 3:18]
“... until the Lord gives rest to your brothers ... and they too have taken over the land that the Lord your God is giving them, across the Jordan ...”[Deuteronomy 3:20]
“... Joshua ... will lead this people across and will cause them to inherit the land that you will see.”[Deuteronomy 3:28]
“... Follow (the decrees and laws) so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 4:1]
“See, I have taught you decrees and laws ... so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it.”[Deuteronomy 4:5]
“The Lord was angry with me (Moses) because of you, and He solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance.”[Deuteronomy 4:21]
“Because He loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, He brought you out of Egypt by His Presence and His great strength, to drive out before you nations greater and stronger than you and to bring you into their land to give it to you for your inheritance, as it is today.”[Deuteronomy 4:37-38]
“Keep His decrees and commands ... so that ... you may live long in the land the Lord your God gives you for all time.”[Deuteronomy 4:40]
“Honour your father and your mother ... so that ... it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 5:16]
“... you are to teach them to follow (all the commands, decrees and laws) in the land I am giving them to possess.”[Deuteronomy 5:31]
“Walk in all the way that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.”[Deuteronomy 5:33]
“When the Lord ... brings you into the land He swore to ... Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you ...”[Deuteronomy 6:10]
“Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land that the Lord promised on oath to your forefathers ...”[Deuteronomy 6:18]
“But He brought us out from there to ... give us the land that He promised on oath to our forefathers.”[Deuteronomy 6:23]
“He will love you and bless you ... in the land that He swore to your forefathers to give you.”[Deuteronomy 7:13]
“Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land that the Lord promised on oathto your forefathers.”[Deuteronomy 8:1]
“... praise the Lord your God for the good land He has given you.”[Deuteronomy 8:10]
“It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the Lord your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”[Deuteronomy 9:5]
“Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.”[Deuteronomy 9:6]
“... the Lord ... said, ‘Go up and take possession of the land I have given you.’ But you rebelled against the command of the Lord your God. You did not trust Him or obey Him.”[Deuteronomy 9:23]
“Otherwise (the Egyptians) ... will say, ‘... the Lord was not able to take them into the land He had promised them ...’”[Deuteronomy 9:28]
“Go,” the Lord said to me, “... enter and possess the land that I swore to their fathers to give them.”[Deuteronomy 10:11]
“... so that you may live long in the land that the Lord swore to your forefathers to give to them and their descendants ...”[Deuteronomy 11:9]
“... the Lord’s anger will burn against you ... and you will soon perish from the good land the Lord is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 11:17]
“... so that your days ... may be many in the land that the Lord swore to give your forefathers ...”[Deuteronomy 11:21]
“You are about to cross the Jordan to enter and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”[Deuteronomy 11:31]
“These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess ...”[Deuteronomy 12:1]
“But you will cross the Jordan and settle in the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, and He will give you rest from all your enemies around you ...”[Deuteronomy 12:10]

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

“... there should be no poor among you, for in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, He will richly bless you ...”[Deuteronomy 15:4]
“... in any of the towns of the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.”[Deuteronomy 15:7]
“Follow justice and justice alone, so that you may live and possess the land the Lord your God is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 16:20]
“When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you and have taken possession of it ...”[Deuteronomy 17:14]
“When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”[Deuteronomy 18:9]
“When the Lord your God has destroyed the nations whose land He is giving you, and when you have driven them out and settled in their towns and houses, then set aside for yourselves three cities centrally located in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess ... divide into three parts the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance ...”[Deuteronomy 19:1-3]
“If the Lord your God enlarges your territory, as He promised on oath to your forefathers, and gives you the whole land He promised them ...”[Deuteronomy 19:8]
“Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance ...”[Deuteronomy 19:10]
“Do not move your neighbour’s boundary stone set up by your predecessors in the inheritance you receive in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess.”[Deuteronomy 19:14]
“If a man is found slain, lying in a field in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess ...”[Deuteronomy 21:1]
“... You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.”[Deuteronomy 21:23]
“... Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.”[Deuteronomy 24:4]
“You must have accurate and honest weights and measures, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 25:15]
“When the Lord your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land He is giving you to possess as an inheritance ...”[Deuteronomy 25:19]
“When you have entered the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance and have taken possession of it and settled in it, take some of the firstfruits of all that you produce from the soil of the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”[Deuteronomy 26:1-2]
“... I declare today to the Lord ... that I have come to the land the Lord swore to our forefathers to give us.”[Deuteronomy 26:3]
“He brought us to this place and gave us this land, a land flowing with milk and honey ...”[Deuteronomy 26:9]
“Look down from heaven ... and bless Your people Israel and the land You have given us as You promised on oath to our forefathers ...”[Deuteronomy 26:15]
“When you have crossed the Jordan into the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”[Deuteronomy 27:2]
“... when you have crossed over to enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your fathers, promised you.”[Deuteronomy 27:3]
“... The Lord your God will bless you in the land He is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 28:8]
“The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity ... in the land He swore to your forefathers to give you.”[Deuteronomy 28:11]
“... They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.”[Deuteronomy 28:52]
“... For the Lord is your life, and He will give you many years in the land He sworeto give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”[Deuteronomy 30:20]
“... you must go with this people into the land that the Lord swore to their forefathers to give them, and you must divide it among them as their inheritance.”[Deuteronomy 31:7]
“When I have brought them into the land ... I promised on oath to their forefathers ...”[Deuteronomy 31:20]
“... I know what they are disposed to do, even before I bring them into the land I promised them on oath.”[Deuteronomy 31:21]
The Lord gave this command to Joshua ... “... you will bring the Israelites into the land I promised them on oath ...”[Deuteronomy 31:23]
“Go up ... and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession.”[Deuteronomy 32:49]
“... you (Moses) will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel.”[Deuteronomy 32:52]
Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ...”[Deuteronomy 34:4]
“... get ready to cross the Jordan River into the land I am about to give to them – to the Israelites.”[Joshua 1:2]
“... you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them.”[Joshua 1:6]
“... you will cross the Jordan here to go in and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you for your own.”[Joshua 1:11]
“... until they too have taken possession of the land that the Lord your God is giving them ...”[Joshua 1:15]
“... I know that the Lord has given this land to you ...”[Joshua 2:9]
“... the Lord had sworn to them that they would not see the land that He had solemnly promised their fathers to give us ...”[Joshua 5:6]
“Your servants were clearly told how the Lord your God had commanded His servant Moses to give you the whole land and to wipe out all its inhabitants from before you ...”[Joshua 9:24]
“... Be sure to allocate this land to Israel for an inheritance, as I have instructed you ...”[Joshua 13:6]
So Joshua said to the Israelites: “How long will you wait before you begin to take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, has given you?”[Joshua 18:3]
“So the Lord gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their forefathers, and they took possession of it ...”[Joshua 21:43]
“The Lord your God Himself will drive them out of your way ... you will take possession of their land, as the Lord your God promised you.”[Joshua 23:5]
“... then ... the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you ... until you perish from this good land, which the Lord your God has given you.”[Joshua 23:13]
“But just as every good promise of the Lord your God has come true, so the Lord will bring on you all the evil He has threatened, until He has destroyed you from this good land He has given you.”[Joshua 23:15]
“If you violate the covenant of the Lord your God ... you will quickly perish from the good land He has given you.”[Joshua 23:16]
“... I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers. I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you ...”[Judges 2:1]
“I snatched you from the power of Egypt and from the hand of all your oppressors. I drove them from before you and gave you their land.”[Judges 6:9]
“... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your people Israel and bring them back to the land You gave to their fathers.”[1 Kings 8:34]
“... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your servants, Your people Israel. Teach them the right way to live, and send rain on the land You gave Your people for an inheritance.”[1 Kings 8:36]
“... so that they will fear You all the time they live in the land You gave our fathers.”[1 Kings 8:40]
“But if you or your sons turn away from Me ... then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them ... Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples.”[1 Kings 9:6-7]
“And the Lord will strike Israel ... He will uproot Israel from this good land that He gave to their forefathers and scatter them ... because they provoked the Lord to anger ...”[1 Kings 14:15]
“I will not again make the feet of the Israelites wander from the land I gave their forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them and will keep the whole Law ...”[2 Kings 21:8]
“He remembers His covenant forever, the word He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant He made with Abraham, the oath He swore to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: ‘To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion you will inherit.’”[1 Chronicles 16:15-18]
“... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your people Israel and bring them back to the land You gave to them and their fathers.”[2 Chronicles 6:25]
“... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your servants, Your people Israel. Teach them the right way to live, and send rain on the land You gave Your people for an inheritance.”[2 Chronicles 6:27]
“... then hear from heaven ... Forgive ... so that they will fear You and walk in Your ways all the time they live in the land You gave our fathers.”[2 Chronicles 6:30-31]
“But if you turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you ... then I will uproot Israel from My land, which I have given them ...”[2 Chronicles 7:19-20]
“O our God, did You not drive out the inhabitants of this land before Your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham Your friend?”[2 Chronicles 7:19-20]
“I will not again make the feet of the Israelites leave the land I assigned to your forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them ...”[2 Chronicles 33:8]
“You found his heart faithful to You, and You made a covenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girgashites. You have kept Your promise because You are righteous.”[Nehemiah 9:8]
“... You told them to go in and take possession of the land You had sworn with uplifted hand to give them.”[Nehemiah 9:15]
“You brought them into the land that You told their fathers to enter and possess.”[Nehemiah 9:23]
“... we are slaves today, slaves in the land You gave our forefathers ...”[Nehemiah 9:36]
“Thus He brought them to the border of His holy land ... He drove out nations before them and allotted their lands to them as an inheritance; He settled the tribes of Israel in their homes.”[Psalms 78:54-55]
“He remembers His covenant forever, the word He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant He made with Abraham, the oath He swore to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: ‘To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion you will inherit.’”[Psalms 105:8-11]
“... Sihon king of the Amorites, Og king of Bashan and all the kings of Canaan – and He gave their land as an inheritance, an inheritance to His people Israel.”[Psalms 135:11-12]
“... and gave their land as an inheritance ... an inheritance to His servant Israel ...”[Psalms 136:21-22]
“The Lord will have compassion on Jacob; once again He will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land.”[Isaiah 14:1]
“Then will all Your people be righteous and they will possess the land forever ...”[Isaiah 60:21]
“... they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your forefathers as an inheritance.”[Jeremiah 3:18]
“... if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever.”[Jeremiah 7:6-7]
“Then I will fulfill the oath I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey ...”[Jeremiah 11:5]
“I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their fathers.”[Jeremiah 24:10]

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

They said, “Turn now, each of you, from your evil ways ... and you can stay in the land the Lord gave to you and your fathers for ever and ever.”[Jeremiah 25:5]
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will bring My people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,” says the Lord.[Jeremiah 30:3]
“You gave them this land You had sworn to give their forefathers, a land flowing with milk and honey.”[Jeremiah 32:22]
“... Each of you must turn from your wicked ways ... Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your fathers ...”[Jeremiah 35:15]
“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.”[Ezekiel 11:17]
“On that day I swore to them that I would bring them out of Egypt into a land I had searched out for them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands.”[Ezekiel 20:6]
“... I swore to them (the rebellious generation) in the desert that I would not bring them into the land I had given them – a land flowing with milk and honey, most beautiful of all lands ...”[Ezekiel 20:15]
“When I brought them into the land I had sworn to give them and they saw any high hill or any leafy tree, there they offered their sacrifices ...”[Ezekiel 20:28]
“Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I bring you into the land of Israel, the land I had sworn with uplifted hand to give to your fathers.”[Ezekiel 20:42]
“... the Sovereign Lord says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show Myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to My servant Jacob.”[Ezekiel 28:25]
“I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land ...”[Ezekiel 34:13]
“I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.”[Ezekiel 34:29]
“You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God.”[Ezekiel 36:28]
“... the Sovereign Lord says: O My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, My people, will know that I am the Lord ... I will put My Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.”[Ezekiel 37:12-14]
“... the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.”[Ezekiel 37:21]
“They will live in the land I gave to My servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever ...”[Ezekiel 37:25]
“This land will be his possession in Israel. And My princes will no longer oppress My people but will allow the house of Israel to possess the land ...”[Ezekiel 45:8]
“... Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your forefathers, this land will become your inheritance.”[Ezekiel 47:14]
“I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.[Amos 9:15]
“He gave him no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promisedhim that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child.”[Acts 7:5]
“... He overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to His people as their inheritance.”[Acts 13:19]

http://www.differentspirit.org/resources/land.php

reneweddaybyday · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

Scripture makes clear that God is a God of mercy and grace. God does not inflict "punishment for sins committed in our youth". Many verses of Scripture tell us that God has removed our transgressions from us as far as the east is from the west (Ps 103:12, Ps 32:2, Is 38:17, Is 43:25).

Crustyone said:

God does not "work things out" with satan.

God does "work things out" with His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Does God have an enemy?
Yes (Matt 13:24-30).

Does the enemy of God try to attack God's children?
Yes (1 Peter 5:8).

Has God given His children everything they need in order to withstand the attack of the enemy?
Yes (Eph 6:10-18).

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"House of Jews"? No.

All Jews are Israelites.
Not all Israelites are Jews.

Have a great day.

wwjd_kilden · Jul 4, 2017

[h=3][/h][h=3]“Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.[/h]

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Desertsrose said:

Are you sure I'm mistaken? Because you just agreed with me. Unless you think that I implied he changed his own name or it was because he had kids.

And for the 3 long posts you just made, they are referencing the area of land given to the children of Israel, right?

So, there are 3 names that seem to confuse the whole world; "Israel" (the person), "Israel" the 'country' that is occupied by God's enemies and demonic forces which is less than 100 years old, and "Israel" the umbrella term that misunderstanding people think means "Jews".

Like I said, I think the COUNTRY was named Israel to confuse people.

The land is just referred to as "the land" in the bible. It wasn't called "The land called Israel".

And why is the land of "greater Israel" or "promised land" occupied by other countries since it extends in to areas of Iraq, Syria, etc. Why aren't these places called "Israel" or "The land of Israel"? Why are there so-called Jews living in a tiny fraction of land out of all the land that was promised?

Depleted · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

I am very sure Jesus died on that cross for all my sins. HE took my punishment for me.

Where is there a "another possibility" in that?

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Depleted · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Luke 21:17
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

1 Peter 2:19
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

1 Peter 5:
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

We can see that even though it feels horrible to suffer, we have the ability to see above and beyond it, for the reason why. God wants us to share in Lord Jesus' suffering so we can also be part of His glory. God's enemy hates God and everyone in God's image, the world is against us, and we suffer for it. But it's for good reason. It's an honor to suffer for God, even though it feels so grievous sometimes. If we willingly suffer here, I am sure God will appreciate it. When we forgive people who hate us, we can conform to God's will, instead of praying to God that He will come and destroy wicked people, we can instead choose to forgive them, and tell God that we will suffer for the sake righteousness, so that the people who God wants to repent can do so. The more people come to God, the more God will be glorified and the more people will know Him. It helps to build character and patience too.

We can't magnify God if we conform to the world and refuse to suffer for His sake and the cause of Christ.

I don't consider anyone hating me as me suffering. So what? They hate me?

And, as for the suffering I have done? Well, kind of keep thinking Solomon had a pretty good life. It doesn't seem like suffering is a requirement. AND, if I could refuse it? (Um, no thanks, Lord. I like being middle-class just fine, so naaah, don't want to be poor.") I would have. He just never gave me that option.

mcubed · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Hi, please forgive me if what I say sounds harsh, my posts aren't meant to be harsh.

The gospel is not Jewish, the O.T. is not Jewish, and the 10 commandments are not Jewish. The garden of Eden is not Jewish, the earth is not Jewish, and heaven is not Jewish. Christianity is not Jewish, the shape of the cross is not Jewish. God is not Jewish.

Abraham -> Isaac -> Jacob (who then became known as Israel) -> 12 sons.

Here is the list of tribes:

Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Issachar
Zebulun
Joseph - Double portion inheritance (Ephraim and Manasseh)
Benjamin

Since Abraham and Isaac and Israel were not Jewish, can we all finally agree that Jewishness is irrelevant to God being loving or wanting to save man? Since God loves Adam, and Adam is not Jewish, can we finally put this to rest?

No matter what happened to the descendants of these children, mixing or migrating, they are still children of Israel.

The person who just hurled half a dozen insults at me in as many sentences is called Issachar92, yet is bragging about Jewishness. That's so ironic and silly. Did Issachar brag that he was Judah? The tribe of Asher is just as much Israel as Judah. God's promises are never broken. The people who God's promised are still 'elect' for God's sake but they really need Lord Jesus. They can't live by works or the law of the O.T., they need grace.

I honestly believe that the land known as Israel in the middle east was named that by the adversary to confuse people.

Add to that the fact that someone from 1/12th of the tribes of Israel are constantly whining if you bring up the fact that there are 11 other tribes given promises by God. "Jews are God's chosen people", well tell that to Abraham who is God's friend and received great promises and who wasn't a Jew or Israelite.

Are they Hebrew? Is a Jew a Hebrew? Is Y-shua from the tribe of Juda? Wait wasn't it during a time in the Old Testament Hebrews were first called Jews? Before Messiah and that is where "the title" came from? Could Y-shua possibly be a Jew? Could your Messiah possibly be a Jew... or are you just STUPID!?!

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

mcubed said:

Why don't you tell me if I'm stupid? Make sure you actually mean it.

mcubed · Jul 4, 2017

I'm asking? I man the the question literally. Is your Messiah a Jew, born of Abraham, King David, the Tribe of Judah?

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

An angel tells Joseph, Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child’s life are dead. Matthew 2:20

remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:12

So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6

Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel. Matthew 8:10

“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23

I think that's enough to show that even God called the land Israel. There are many more if you need more references.

So are you saying that God is trying to confuse us by calling the land Israel. Who are you listening to? It can't be God's word.

At first, the word Jew referred to the tribe of Judah who lived in the land of Judah. And then it became a generalized term to refer to a Hebrew or an Israelite.

The Jews that live in the land of Israel are still God's chosen people. They are hardened for a period of time until the fullness of the gentiles come to faith.

Please read all of Romans 11, but here's the part I want to highlight.

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
HE will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
“This is MY covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

At the moment Israel as a nation is God's enemy. But they are still God's chosen nation/people and they will, as a nation, return to God. Their hardening is partial. Read Ezekiel and some of the other prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah.

Here's the future promised boundaries in Ezekiel.

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