The Rapture
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VCO good response. It does say King of all the earth but when you read the entire chapter it does not sound very futuristic, not to mention there are many verses which say in present tense that "LORD is king over all the earth".
But for argument's sake lets say Zechariah 14 is all future, will there be sacrifices when Jesus comes back because in Zechariah 14:21 it mentions that?
Also earlier on horses and mules are mentioned as getting the plague in camps during warfare against Israel, however we do not use those anymore.
But for argument's sake lets say Zechariah 14 is all future, will there be sacrifices when Jesus comes back because in Zechariah 14:21 it mentions that?
Also earlier on horses and mules are mentioned as getting the plague in camps during warfare against Israel, however we do not use those anymore.
When the disciples brought the attention of the temple buildings to the Lord, He then said that, "not one stone would be left upon another that would not thrown down." This prompted the disciples to ask "When will this happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?"
Since Jesus had already given them the information regarding the destruction of the temple, He added no more information regarding that event, but focused on the signs leading up to His return and the end of the age.
In Matt.24:15, Jesus quotes Dan.9:27 by saying "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
Therefore, we need to go back and read Dan.9:27, for the Lord tells the reader to pay attention to what he is saying regarding what Daniel said about the abomination, which is as follows:
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
In the original it says, "for the overspreading of abominations" but, Dan.12:11 and Matt.24:15 make it clear that the scripture is referring to an image being set up in the holy place, which is that room just outside the holy of holies.
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days."
All of that said and for those who believe that Jesus is the "He" in Dan.9:27, since no one is mentioned as to who the "He" is in Dan.9:27, grammar demands that we refer back to the previous person mentioned, which would be that ruler who comes who destroys the city and the sanctuary in verse 26.
That said, it is that ruler who is identified as the "He" in the verse. Consequently, Jesus could not be the "He" of the verse because it would have Him as the One who makes the covenant, the one who causes the sacrifice and offerings to cease and he would also have to be the one who sets up the abomination. And Jesus did none of these.
Since none of Dan.9:27 had not been fulfilled from the time that Jesus quoted Daniel until the time that the temple was destroyed, then these events are yet to take place and that because all prophecy must be fulfilled. For those who do find fulfillment, it is a forced, spiritualized fulfillment.
The above is exactly what you and others are doing by teaching that end-time events have already taken place and that Jesus has already returned.
You've reduced the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, to the passive events of history not realizing that they will be the most destructive and horrific time the world has ever seen, which mankind never recovering from it. If someone wants to read about the last days, they should read the word of God for themselves and not the writings of men.
On that day when all of the news agencies are reporting on the millions of people who are missing from the earth, then know and understand that the next news event will be the establishment of that seven year covenant with Israel. At that time you will all understand that what we have been proclaiming to you has been the truth.
After the seven year agreement has been made, you can expect to experience the 2nd seal, which is represented by the rider on the red horse who will take peace from the earth so that men kill each other.
After that, you can expect the results of the 3rd seal represented by the rider on the black horse, which will be famine. Because of the shortage a lot of money will buy a little bit of food.
After that, death and Hades will be given power to kill a fourth of the earths population by sword, famine, disease and by the wild beasts of the earth. A fourth would be approx. 1.7 billion people within the first part of that first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
Following that will be the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. So when this all begins to take place, remember what we have told you, because it will happen. And it is coming quickly!
Since Jesus had already given them the information regarding the destruction of the temple, He added no more information regarding that event, but focused on the signs leading up to His return and the end of the age.
In Matt.24:15, Jesus quotes Dan.9:27 by saying "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
Therefore, we need to go back and read Dan.9:27, for the Lord tells the reader to pay attention to what he is saying regarding what Daniel said about the abomination, which is as follows:
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
In the original it says, "for the overspreading of abominations" but, Dan.12:11 and Matt.24:15 make it clear that the scripture is referring to an image being set up in the holy place, which is that room just outside the holy of holies.
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days."
All of that said and for those who believe that Jesus is the "He" in Dan.9:27, since no one is mentioned as to who the "He" is in Dan.9:27, grammar demands that we refer back to the previous person mentioned, which would be that ruler who comes who destroys the city and the sanctuary in verse 26.
That said, it is that ruler who is identified as the "He" in the verse. Consequently, Jesus could not be the "He" of the verse because it would have Him as the One who makes the covenant, the one who causes the sacrifice and offerings to cease and he would also have to be the one who sets up the abomination. And Jesus did none of these.
Since none of Dan.9:27 had not been fulfilled from the time that Jesus quoted Daniel until the time that the temple was destroyed, then these events are yet to take place and that because all prophecy must be fulfilled. For those who do find fulfillment, it is a forced, spiritualized fulfillment.
The above is exactly what you and others are doing by teaching that end-time events have already taken place and that Jesus has already returned.
You've reduced the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, to the passive events of history not realizing that they will be the most destructive and horrific time the world has ever seen, which mankind never recovering from it. If someone wants to read about the last days, they should read the word of God for themselves and not the writings of men.
On that day when all of the news agencies are reporting on the millions of people who are missing from the earth, then know and understand that the next news event will be the establishment of that seven year covenant with Israel. At that time you will all understand that what we have been proclaiming to you has been the truth.
After the seven year agreement has been made, you can expect to experience the 2nd seal, which is represented by the rider on the red horse who will take peace from the earth so that men kill each other.
After that, you can expect the results of the 3rd seal represented by the rider on the black horse, which will be famine. Because of the shortage a lot of money will buy a little bit of food.
After that, death and Hades will be given power to kill a fourth of the earths population by sword, famine, disease and by the wild beasts of the earth. A fourth would be approx. 1.7 billion people within the first part of that first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
Following that will be the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. So when this all begins to take place, remember what we have told you, because it will happen. And it is coming quickly!
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I still wonder, who is there to reign over?
1 Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
This is about the resurrection, so now let us assume Revelation 20 is literal two resurrections 1000 years apart. (ahem john 5:28-29, john 6:40)
1 Corinthians 15:23 would be the first resurrection, at the Second Coming when Jesus returns.
But in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
We have here those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord (the unsaved) destroyed at the Second Coming.
So do you see my point that there is no fleshly people in the earthly millennium to reign over. All the saints have glorified bodies in which no one can die not even at 100 years old (Isaiah 65:20) and all the wicked will be destroyed.
So my question is: Who is left to reign over?
1 Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
This is about the resurrection, so now let us assume Revelation 20 is literal two resurrections 1000 years apart. (ahem john 5:28-29, john 6:40)
1 Corinthians 15:23 would be the first resurrection, at the Second Coming when Jesus returns.
But in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
We have here those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord (the unsaved) destroyed at the Second Coming.
So do you see my point that there is no fleshly people in the earthly millennium to reign over. All the saints have glorified bodies in which no one can die not even at 100 years old (Isaiah 65:20) and all the wicked will be destroyed.
So my question is: Who is left to reign over?
I wish I could give you half a like
.
Jesus was not referring to the transfiguration when He said this.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
The transfiguration happened 6 days later and Christ hadn't come in His kingdom yet. He doesn't get His kingdom until He ascends back to Heaven and stands before the Father. The event Jesus referred to in Mat 16 is the same one He mentions here in Mat 24 and 26 and He is still looking at it as a future event.
...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
In Rev 1 we are told this:
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
The verse that you claim Jesus was discussing in Mat 16 here...
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and He was transfigured before them.
...Only three people saw; Peter, James and John. Christ's return was to be a visible event that all were to see, not just three people. You better go back to the drawing board.
The only thing that makes sense is a 1st century parousia return, just as God the Father's presence was felt and seen many times in the OT when He fought on the side of Israel or came to speak to Moses or even at the Transfiguration that we were just discussing. Why is it such a hard thing to consider that Christ's presence could return to help the Roman's wipe out apostate Israel after they killed Him?
"Days of Vengeance" what does that mean to you?
.Jesus was not referring to the transfiguration when He said this.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
The transfiguration happened 6 days later and Christ hadn't come in His kingdom yet. He doesn't get His kingdom until He ascends back to Heaven and stands before the Father. The event Jesus referred to in Mat 16 is the same one He mentions here in Mat 24 and 26 and He is still looking at it as a future event.
...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
In Rev 1 we are told this:
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
The verse that you claim Jesus was discussing in Mat 16 here...
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and He was transfigured before them.
...Only three people saw; Peter, James and John. Christ's return was to be a visible event that all were to see, not just three people. You better go back to the drawing board.
The only thing that makes sense is a 1st century parousia return, just as God the Father's presence was felt and seen many times in the OT when He fought on the side of Israel or came to speak to Moses or even at the Transfiguration that we were just discussing. Why is it such a hard thing to consider that Christ's presence could return to help the Roman's wipe out apostate Israel after they killed Him?
"Days of Vengeance" what does that mean to you?
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This stems from you not understanding that the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. As long as you see them as being the same event, then you are going to continue to misapply the scriptures regarding these two events.
The reference to "Christ returning immediately after the tribulation" is in referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. and not the gathering of the church, which will have taken place several years prior to the Lord's return to the earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is not the same event as Matt.24:29-31
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 = The gathering of the church
Matt.24:29-31 = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and the church with him
Matt.24:29-31 is the same event as Rev.19:11-21, with added details.
Though Christ is ruling from heaven, the reference to him ruling during the millennial period is upon this earth. Christ is very much alive and is at the Father's right hand making intercession for all believers.
The fleeing out into the desert will take place as result of the setting up of the abomination in the temple in Jerusalem and is directed at those of Israel dwelling in Jerusalem at that time and is not referring to the entire planet. However, the setting up of the abomination will also be a sign to the great tribulation saints that the last 3 1/2 years have begun and that from that time foreword the antichrist will be proclaiming himself to be God. It is also the same time that the antichrist will be given power to make war and to conquer the great tribulation saints.
The promise of the "blessed hope" was/is not only for Timothy and the Thessalonians, but for all believers throughout the entire church period, which is the gathering of the church.
The reference to "the time is near" and "soon to take place, etc." is a statement of imminency i.e. on the horizon, about to take place, in the workings, looming, etc. That phrase is not something that you can set a date to. For example, the OT saints referred to the "day of the Lord" as being near or coming quickly and the apostles over a thousand years later made the same statement regarding the day of the Lord. And we today are saying the same thing, that the day of the Lord is near. Except for us the imminency is upon us and is about to be fulfilled. The fact is that, we have no fulfillment of Christ's return, unless you spiritualize it by making Jesus return as a flash of light, instead of what scripture says, which is that every eye will see him arriving on the clouds of heaven, physically and visually.
I can find nothing more repulsive than those who are not believing in the Lord's promise, but instead are teaching that believers, who have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God, must go through God's coming wrath. In doing so, you ignore the following:
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.
Since the day of the Lord, this hour of trial, that time of God's wrath that is coming, must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, then the church cannot go through that time period. But, because you do not recognize that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events, with two different purposes, you interpret the gathering of the church as taking place at the same time as the Lord's return to the earth and thereby sending the church through God's wrath.
Since Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that believers deserve, it is nonsense to believe that believers will go through the time of God's wrath. And God's wrath certainly has not yet taken place, but is coming very quickly!
Bogadile,
You are asking the same questions I used to ask. The 1,000 years represents a long period of time, not a literal 1,000 earth years. Indeed there are two resurrections, one of the just at His parousia, the other for the unjust at the end of the long period of time (the "1,000 years").
We see from Rev 20 that "the rest of the dead" (the wicked) do not live again until the 1,000 years are finished. Only the wicked are raised to face the Great White Throne. Then Death and Hades, where the unsaved souls reside, are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Okay, now this is not a resurrection. This is judgment wrath upon the wicked Jews who rejected Christ and swore allegiance to Caesar elevating Caesar above God:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, “If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar’s friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus out and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!”
Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?”
The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”
No, just the unsaved Jews destroyed in 70 AD. Every last one of that faithless and perverse generation were destroyed in the city by the very Romans they swore alliance to.
that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”
You are asking the same questions I used to ask. The 1,000 years represents a long period of time, not a literal 1,000 earth years. Indeed there are two resurrections, one of the just at His parousia, the other for the unjust at the end of the long period of time (the "1,000 years").
We see from Rev 20 that "the rest of the dead" (the wicked) do not live again until the 1,000 years are finished. Only the wicked are raised to face the Great White Throne. Then Death and Hades, where the unsaved souls reside, are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Okay, now this is not a resurrection. This is judgment wrath upon the wicked Jews who rejected Christ and swore allegiance to Caesar elevating Caesar above God:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, “If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar’s friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus out and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!”
Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?”
The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”
No, just the unsaved Jews destroyed in 70 AD. Every last one of that faithless and perverse generation were destroyed in the city by the very Romans they swore alliance to.
that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”
AHW,
No, they are not the same event but they happen in close proximity.
Exactly, and the age ended in 70 AD.
I see a gathering in Mat 24 also. "and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
What passage do you have Christ literally ruling "upon this earth" for 1,000 years? Rev 20 doesn't say they are on earth reigning. They "live" means they are saved and alive spiritually.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses. And many other places.
Already happened. They fled over the mountains to Pella and were nourished there for 3.5 years.
My bad, meant Titus, not Timothy. Thought about correcting it but wanted to see if anyone else would see my mistake. No, actually, the "blessed hope" of seeing Christ return applied only to those alive in the first century. Paul was speaking of the "present age," their age. They had the blessed hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ...
They were expecting to see Christ's presence (parousia) return and some of them did.
Nope. Their age was coming to an end. The writer of Hebrews definitely tells us this.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Notice it says ONCE AT THE END OF THE AGES He (Jesus) sacrificed Himself???. The ages ended 40 years later in 70 AD when Israel was utterly destroyed in the great tribulation, the worst ever recorded in history to any nation.
God's wrath is over. It was poured out against apostate Israel. God isn't angry anymore. He's not pleased with everyone, but the "days of vengeance" are way in the rear view mirror. The passages you quoted dealt with those alive back then. They were protected.
I just showed you in Heb 9 when the "end of the ages" was. Indeed, the church did not go through it. The church fled as they were told to do and went to Pella, all 144,000 of them in Jerusalem. Google, "Christian flight to Pella." Here, I'll save you the trouble.
No, they are not the same event but they happen in close proximity.
Exactly, and the age ended in 70 AD.
I see a gathering in Mat 24 also. "and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
What passage do you have Christ literally ruling "upon this earth" for 1,000 years? Rev 20 doesn't say they are on earth reigning. They "live" means they are saved and alive spiritually.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses. And many other places.
Already happened. They fled over the mountains to Pella and were nourished there for 3.5 years.
My bad, meant Titus, not Timothy. Thought about correcting it but wanted to see if anyone else would see my mistake. No, actually, the "blessed hope" of seeing Christ return applied only to those alive in the first century. Paul was speaking of the "present age," their age. They had the blessed hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ...
They were expecting to see Christ's presence (parousia) return and some of them did.
Nope. Their age was coming to an end. The writer of Hebrews definitely tells us this.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Notice it says ONCE AT THE END OF THE AGES He (Jesus) sacrificed Himself???. The ages ended 40 years later in 70 AD when Israel was utterly destroyed in the great tribulation, the worst ever recorded in history to any nation.
God's wrath is over. It was poured out against apostate Israel. God isn't angry anymore. He's not pleased with everyone, but the "days of vengeance" are way in the rear view mirror. The passages you quoted dealt with those alive back then. They were protected.
I just showed you in Heb 9 when the "end of the ages" was. Indeed, the church did not go through it. The church fled as they were told to do and went to Pella, all 144,000 of them in Jerusalem. Google, "Christian flight to Pella." Here, I'll save you the trouble.
The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…"
— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3
— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3
This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba (Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said."
— Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8
— Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8
For after all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel that it is situated in the neighbourhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there."
— Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 2, 7
— Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 2, 7
So Aquila, while he was in Jerusalem, also saw the disciples of the disciples of the apostles flourishing in the faith and working great signs, healings, and other miracles. For they were such as had come back from the city of Pella to Jerusalem and were living there and teaching. For when the city was about to be taken and destroyed by the Romans, it was revealed in advance to all the disciples by an angel of God that they should remove from the city, as it was going to be completely destroyed. They sojourned as emigrants in Pella, the city above mentioned in Transjordania. And this city is said to be of the Decapolis."
— Epiphanius, On Weights and Measures 15
— Epiphanius, On Weights and Measures 15
H
Generally Jesus said "One would be taken, one left"; not destroyed, just left.
Here is a vivid depiction of the rapture. half are taken:
Matthew 25King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
The rapture is obviously before the GT. That is the only position where vs 13 fits.
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One is taken to be at Christ's side.
31 [FONT="]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
[/FONT][FONT="]The days of Noah describe a general state of unrighteousness out side the Church (the ark).
But the destruction element is limited to Jerusalem.
[/FONT]Luke 17 37 [FONT="]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
31 [FONT="]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
[/FONT][FONT="]The days of Noah describe a general state of unrighteousness out side the Church (the ark).
But the destruction element is limited to Jerusalem.
[/FONT]Luke 17 37 [FONT="]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.[/FONT][FONT="]
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The verse I pointed out is not talking about his Heavenly Kingdom, but rather the DAY He takes back the EARTH (SECOND COMING), and takes His rightful place as KING of Earth sitting on the THRONE OF DAVID, in Earth's JERUSALEM. THUS IT IS TALKING ABOUT HIS LITERAL 1000 year Earthly Kingdom.
Zechariah 14:8-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
I ALSO QUESTION YOUR SECOND STATEMENT:
John 8:44 (HCSB)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.
Matthew 13:38-39 (NCV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] The field is the world, and the good seed are all of God’s children who belong to the kingdom. The weeds are those people who belong to the Evil One.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And the enemy who planted the bad seed is the devil. The harvest time is the end of the world, and the workers who gather are God’s angels.
Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
