Sabbath

[JaumeJ]

Moses was instructed to put down in writing what he wrote down for all who believe God.

God informed Moses that a prophet would be raised up like he; like Moes that is. Now this was mention of the coming of Messiah.

God compared Moses to our Messiah.

Whether the comparison was made or not, it was, Moses is a man to be esteeemed by all who believe God.

People, please watch how you talk about this Prophet of God compared to Jesus Christ, Himself.

 

[beta]

paul only Said sabbath is a shadow, to me It mean any sabbath.

if paul mean only sabbath year, he Will say so

We are told that some of Paul's writings are hard to understand....
so I would not say he is clear on everything he says.
However he makes clear that HE FOLLOWS CHRIST and that WE should follow him in doing so 1Cor 11v1.
Now lets look at Jesus...did HE keep the Sabbath in HIS human lifetime ? Did HE keep His Fathers Commandments/law. I think everybody KNOWS the answer !!!
Also Paul was preaching to Jew and Gentile on the Sabbath Acts 13v42,44, in particular and other.

 

[beta]

So you Said the law of moses include sabbath is not for Christian, because Christian not refuse to hear God.

I'm sorry Sir, but christians do refuse to hear God ! The Sabbath is 'holy and special to God and He wants people to remember that...christians KNOW that but REFUSE to obey Him ! it is called REBELLION.
God PERSONALLY gave the 10 Commandments Ex 20; Deut 5 and after hearing them said they did not want to hear GOD again...only Moses. Seems christians only hear Moses NOT God.

 

[beta]

And what EXACTLY are these?

They are the law of LOVE ! love God and neighbour !!!

 

[beta]

I will answer my own question:

23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[e] commandment. 1 John 3:23

(although Bruce beat me to the punchline!)

Friend you have STOPPED at Believing which is only a START ! please inform yourself that you are on shaky ground...for the demons and devils also believe....you would not want to be on the same level with them ??? Jas 2v19...move on...move on

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Who's denying the OT?

Its a shadow of what was to come. The Lord Jesus Christ.

The OT is actually pretty awesome when you know that before-hand.


But if you think that the Lord Jesus Christ came to show people how to live by the OT then you are very sadly mistaken.

Jesus did not came to show how to live by the OT but He did lived by the Torah because He is the living Word (Torah).

I actually started reading Hebrews this morning just because we are focussing on Hebrews the last few days. I am trying to find some common ground here my friend .

I am actually enjoying the Bible study and have been reading the whole morning

Gad bless Grandpa and hope we can continue our discussion some other time.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Moses was instructed to put down in writing what he wrote down for all who believe God.

God informed Moses that a prophet would be raised up like he; like Moes that is. Now this was mention of the coming of Messiah.

God compared Moses to our Messiah.

Whether the comparison was made or not, it was, Moses is a man to be esteeemed by all who believe God.

People, please watch how you talk about this Prophet of God compared to Jesus Christ, Himself.

Amen brother

Mat 12:36 But I sayunto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give accountthereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For bythy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[beta]

LoveGodForever ! I highly respect your kindness and patience toward people who persistently resort to 'derogatory name-calling---knowing we can not retaliate.
I suggest we stop talking to them as long as they continue in that despicable way...let them experience the consequences of their disgusting behaviour.

 

[Harkins]

Phew!

52 pages...and I got to page 2.

Sabbath, no Sabbath, Ceremonial, Saturday/Sunday...another day?

All I would like to say is - God made a huge deal of the Sabbath day in the OT. He didn't list it as some sort of obscure law tucked away in the Torah - oh no - instead He put it smack down in the middle of the big 10. The Sabbath gets it's first mention as a blessed day right in the beginning of the Bible. Jesus honored it by healing people on it and making them whole on the Sabbath day. Christ's disciples honored it by resting on it right after the Crucifixion.

Two conclusions present themselves to me on this topic - which has been raging for over 2000 years in Christianity:

1) God made a huge mistake by placing Sabbath in the 10 commandments right along with "Do not steal", "Do not murder".

2) God didn't make a mistake but since most of humanity is in a state of rebellion (even many who consider themselves religious), they choose to confuse the issue with a multitude of re-definitions and excuses.


How bout you, Harkins?

I keep a Sabbath, sometimes. My current understanding of it makes it a wee bit more difficult than staunch Sunday or Saturday keepers though. I do not consider myself any better than anyone, am certainly NOT more holy than anyone and I don't use it as "one up" leverage to prove anything. To me it is something solely between me and God - and I do experience blessing when I keep it - but God does not force me and I often do not.

 

[beta]

There is no longer a call to observe it to the letter, and the NT makes abundant allowances to keep it 'in the Spirit....doing Good works !
We are not perfect yet and will get things wrong while we are only 'learners/disciples...yet this does not excuse us to do nothing - worse - trample on God's Word.

 

[LoveGodForever]

LoveGodForever ! I highly respect your kindness and patience toward people who persistently resort to 'derogatory name-calling---knowing we can not retaliate.
I suggest we stop talking to them as long as they continue in that despicable way...let them experience the consequences of their disgusting behaviour.

Hi Sis Beta,

You always have some great words of encouragement. I really appreciate your kind words. I don't mind the name calling so much. God's own people called Jesus much worse after all and crucified him for telling the truth. We must follow in the footsteps of Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood. God's Word is very helpful in encouraging patience. These ones I like....

"For we wrestle not against flesh3 and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual4 wickedness in high5 places." (Eph 6:12)

and...

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." (Matt 5:10-11).

Thanks for your advice as well. I will not waste too much time with them but I believe we should always be ready for a reason for the hope that is in us. Sometimes I cant help it. I love God's Word (Jesus) as I know all of you do as well

God bless you

 

[LoveGodForever]

Phew!

52 pages...and I got to page 2.

Sabbath, no Sabbath, Ceremonial, Saturday/Sunday...another day?

All I would like to say is - God made a huge deal of the Sabbath day in the OT. He didn't list it as some sort of obscure law tucked away in the Torah - oh no - instead He put it smack down in the middle of the big 10. The Sabbath gets it's first mention as a blessed day right in the beginning of the Bible. Jesus honored it by healing people on it and making them whole on the Sabbath day. Christ's disciples honored it by resting on it right after the Crucifixion.

Two conclusions present themselves to me on this topic - which has been raging for over 2000 years in Christianity:

1) God made a huge mistake by placing Sabbath in the 10 commandments right along with "Do not steal", "Do not murder".

2) God didn't make a mistake but since most of humanity is in a state of rebellion (even many who consider themselves religious), they choose to confuse the issue with a multitude of re-definitions and excuses.


How bout you, Harkins?

I keep a Sabbath, sometimes. My current understanding of it makes it a wee bit more difficult than staunch Sunday or Saturday keepers though. I do not consider myself any better than anyone, am certainly NOT more holy than anyone and I don't use it as "one up" leverage to prove anything. To me it is something solely between me and God - and I do experience blessing when I keep it - but God does not force me and I often do not.

Hi Harkins,

So great to meet you here my friend. Yes I think the thread has been going for some time already. When I arrived I ended up reading the whole lot.... Had a bad headache at the end of it but I enjoyed reading it and seeing what people had to say. Gives a good background to the discussion as well. So great to meet a faithful Berean like yourself. There is a lot of nice people on this thread and in the forums that I see really love Jesus which is great.

God bless you my friend

 

[loveme1]

The Messiah was accused of breaking the Sabbath commandment by the Pharisees..... look dillegently at His response and instructions..let each own conscience seek and find. The answer is in His Testimony.... Then you will receive this:One man esteem etc one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. romans 14:5...

 

[beta]

The Messiah was accused of breaking the Sabbath commandment by the Pharisees..... look dillegently at His response and instructions..let each own conscience seek and find. The answer is in His Testimony.... Then you will receive this:One man esteem etc one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. romans 14:5...

Now I have a bit of a problem with Rom 14....it gives the impression that people can choose their own holy day/Sabbath. But listen what Paul is ACTUALLY saying...Some are picking and choosing their own day to keep holy....is that how we are to obey and follow Christ ? is that what HE did ? certainly not !
Paul was simply stating what some people did, he never hinted for us to do the same...but to follow him AS HE FOLLOWED CHRIST....and Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath holy...not sunday or any other day.

 

[LoveGodForever]

The Messiah was accused of breaking the Sabbath commandment by the Pharisees..... look dillegently at His response and instructions..let each own conscience seek and find. The answer is in His Testimony.... Then you will receive this:One man esteem etc one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. romans 14:5

Hi loveme1,

So great to meet you. How are you today? Yes the Pharisees had places so many restrictions on the Sabbath that it was a burden to people. Jesus kept the 7th Day Sabbath holy and came to let people know that he is the Lord of the Sabbath (maker) and that the Sabbath was made for man (not man for the Sabbath) (Mark 2:27-28).

Romans 14:5-6 does not say that we no longer are required to keep the 7th Day Sabbath in God's 10 commandments as a Holy day. The whole of Romans 14 does not even refer to the 7th Day Sabbath at all for that matter. This is only an assumption provided by those that would like to avoid God's 7th Day Sabbath as written in God's Law (Ex 20:8-11).

Another point is that the work "alike" is not used in the Greek text so the literal translation should read v5 "One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." The Chapter context refers to the Jewish institutions and festivals such as the Passover, Day of Atonement, New Moon and food sacrificed to idols. The Word of God never refers to God's Sabbath as just another day. Its always called either 7th Day Sabbath, Sabbath or Sabbath day.

The Jews at that time who did not understand the Gospel did not know that the ceremonial laws, new moons, annual Sabbaths and meat offerings were fulfilled in the death, resurrection and new ministration and work of Jesus. As a result of this there was disputes between the Jews and the Gentiles over if these feasts needed to be kept or not. So Paul is instructing them to consider those whose faith enables them to immediately leave behind all the ceremonial holidays and not to despise others whose faith is not as strong and for the latter to not criticize those who seem more relaxed about disregarding the ceremonial feast days as these were fulfilled in Jesus.

This is what caused the enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles before the cross that Paul spoke of in Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace." Hope this is helpful

God bless you

 

[beta]

Hi Sis Beta,

You always have some great words of encouragement. I really appreciate your kind words. I don't mind the name calling so much. God's own people called Jesus much worse after all and crucified him for telling the truth. We must follow in the footsteps of Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood. God's Word is very helpful in encouraging patience. These ones I like....

"For we wrestle not against flesh3 and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual4 wickedness in high5 places." (Eph 6:12)

and...

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." (Matt 5:10-11).

Thanks for your advice as well. I will not waste too much time with them but I believe we should always be ready for a reason for the hope that is in us. Sometimes I cant help it. I love God's Word (Jesus) as I know all of you do as well

God bless you

Thank you for your reply..and you are of course right... and love the scriptures you quoted.
I must acquire an armour like yours...am too vulnerable as a Butterfly ...not equipped to fight a war !

 

[LoveGodForever]

Thank you for your reply..and you are of course right... and love the scriptures you quoted.
I must acquire an armour like yours...am too vulnerable as a Butterfly ...not equipped to fight a war !

Sis Beta, you already have your own wonderful armor that God has made just for you

Gods blessing

 

[JaumeJ]

Paul teahes that whether a person observes a particular day or does not, as long as he does itwith a clear conscience in the sight of God, he wi without any guilt or blame. Either way he is justified.

Personally, I cannot speak against the Word on days, so for me what God has establihed is what counts for me.

My Sabbath of the Lord must be the one He has established, the Seventh Day. I cnnot justify changing the orer of days as given by our Maker, no manner.

People who are false will always pick and choose, but all who believe will do their best to please what God has taught them...

I am not given to fault any for observing what they "think" is the Sabbath on any day, because they do it in innocence, but no flesh will ever change what a person in Christ believes is right. and that person, even if it is on a Wednesay they observe is just fine with me, after all if he has a clear conscience in the sight of god, he is just fine with our Father.

This entire thread is quite weird after a while...... If it has been posted again and again that any are orrect why the contention..

All who love Jesus Christ in spirit and truth are family, and they should not nit pick for reasons to fault others. Are these people the real deal? I cannot sy, but they can be quite annoying.

Now I have a bit of a problem with Rom 14....it gives the impression that people can choose their own holy day/Sabbath. But listen what Paul is ACTUALLY saying...Some are picking and choosing their own day to keep holy....is that how we are to obey and follow Christ ? is that what HE did ? certainly not !
Paul was simply stating what some people did, he never hinted for us to do the same...but to follow him AS HE FOLLOWED CHRIST....and Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath holy...not sunday or any other day.
[/I]

 

[loveme1]

Now I have a bit of a problem with Rom 14....it gives the impression that people can choose their own holy day/Sabbath. But listen what Paul is ACTUALLY saying...Some are picking and choosing their own day to keep holy....is that how we are to obey and follow Christ ? is that what HE did ? certainly not !
Paul was simply stating what some people did, he never hinted for us to do the same...but to follow him AS HE FOLLOWED CHRIST....and Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath holy...not sunday or any other day.
[/I]

Please read my my post again. The Messiah teaches us well. GOD help anyone who believes they keep Sabbath without the Testimony of The Messiah. Paul knew well not to be a Pharisee and that each conscience must be in front of GOD. I'm quite sure I said we should adhere to the Testimony of our Lord and Saviour...

 

[loveme1]

Hi loveme1,

So great to meet you. How are you today? Yes the Pharisees had places so many restrictions on the Sabbath that it was a burden to people. Jesus kept the 7th Day Sabbath holy and came to let people know that he is the Lord of the Sabbath (maker) and that the Sabbath was made for man (not man for the Sabbath) (Mark 2:27-28).

Romans 14:5-6 does not say that we no longer are required to keep the 7th Day Sabbath in God's 10 commandments as a Holy day. The whole of Romans 14 does not even refer to the 7th Day Sabbath at all for that matter. This is only an assumption provided by those that would like to avoid God's 7th Day Sabbath as written in God's Law (Ex 20:8-11).

Another point is that the work "alike" is not used in the Greek text so the literal translation should read v5 "One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." The Chapter context refers to the Jewish institutions and festivals such as the Passover, Day of Atonement, New Moon and food sacrificed to idols. The Word of God never refers to God's Sabbath as just another day. Its always called either 7th Day Sabbath, Sabbath or Sabbath day.

The Jews at that time who did not understand the Gospel did not know that the ceremonial laws, new moons, annual Sabbaths and meat offerings were fulfilled in the death, resurrection and new ministration and work of Jesus. As a result of this there was disputes between the Jews and the Gentiles over if these feasts needed to be kept or not. So Paul is instructing them to consider those whose faith enables them to immediately leave behind all the ceremonial holidays and not to despise others whose faith is not as strong and for the latter to not criticize those who seem more relaxed about disregarding the ceremonial feast days as these were fulfilled in Jesus.

This is what caused the enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles before the cross that Paul spoke of in Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace." Hope this is helpful

God bless you

Good day, also please read what I wrote. Romans 14:5 was not me teaching any not to keep Sabbath... it is a reminder to us not to judge others... each will give account of themselves. If we adhere to the Testimony of the Messiah we can't go wrong.