Sabbath

[sparkman]

Well said...and all this whether it is Saturday or Sunday is all a smoke screen of the enemy as it is neither day. It's all days for all eternity that we worship God. Christ alone is our true life for we have died and our life in hidden with Him in God our Father.

Whenever we can get together - that is the day we assemble. To some it's a Saturday, others - it's a Sunday - for some it's a Wednesday night.

Sometimes it is a complete waste of time dealing with them directly as they can't see Christ through the veil of Moses and the reading of the Old Testament - just like Paul said in 2 C0r. 3:14-15.

But at least the viewers of the thread can be warned about those Judaziers coming in to distort the gospel.

Exactly...Judaizers are all about days and diet. I suppose some of them toss in physical circumcision. But that's the main focus.

There wouldn't be a problem with that if they didn't fixate on judging non-observers as being in sin, and often claiming they are following a Satanic system (Babylon the Great, Revelation 17, Mark of the Beast stuff).

Been there, done that, though. I played the same game as them.

 

[JohnTalmid]

For others to call the first day their Sabbath is not bothersome to me because there are many sabbaths, but the Seventh day given by our Father is a gift to us all, and cannot be changed. Therefore it is the only sabbath that can be called the Sabath of the Lord, my Sabbath also.

The order of creation is also the order ofall to come when we meditate but a little on it in relation to this age and the coming. If you read my posts you will see, what you have posted is raining on wet soil with me. God bless you always in Yeshua, amen.

Glad the Father is used to grow us up in maturity. Shalom

 

[Zen]

Exactly...Judaizers are all about days and diet

Can I eat blood?

 

[JohnTalmid]

Well said...and all this whether it is Saturday or Sunday is all a smoke screen of the enemy as it is neither day. It's all days for all eternity that we worship God. Christ alone is our true life for we have died and our life in hidden with Him in God our Father.

Whenever we can get together - that is the day we assemble. To some it's a Saturday, others - it's a Sunday - for some it's a Wednesday night.

Sometimes it is a complete waste of time dealing with them directly as they can't see Christ through the veil of Moses and the reading of the Old Testament - just like Paul said in 2 C0r. 3:14-15.

But at least the viewers of the thread can be warned about those Judaziers coming in to distort the gospel.

What the what? If anyone is trying to hide the day it is the Antichrist spirit hiding it. A Jewdeizer is who converts to Jewdaisum. I don't want to condemn you so listen. Christianity or the Jewish faith doesn't save. It is only Faith in the one who has been sent by the Father who we should have faith in.

Just because I say it is a sin to not enter into the Sabbath day you say I'm working at the law and trying to convert you all to the Jewish religion? This is not a Jewdeizer because I have debated them and Messiah has overcome them. Still Sabbath is important today for the believer as well as honoring father and mother, or not coveting. The error not mentioned is that we would teach what is insufficient to be greater than the Messiah. I don't teach that Sabbath is more important than Messiah. I teach to guard the Sabbath day because if you are saved it is your day to find rest and meet the creator. Keep ignoring the Word and you will find yourselves on the wrong mountain.

 

[graceNpeace]

What the what? If anyone is trying to hide the day it is the Antichrist spirit hiding it. A Jewdeizer is who converts to Jewdaisum. I don't want to condemn you so listen. Christianity or the Jewish faith doesn't save. It is only Faith in the one who has been sent by the Father who we should have faith in.

Just because I say it is a sin to not enter into the Sabbath day you say I'm working at the law and trying to convert you all to the Jewish religion? This is not a Jewdeizer because I have debated them and Messiah has overcome them. Still Sabbath is important today for the believer as well as honoring father and mother, or not coveting. The error not mentioned is that we would teach what is insufficient to be greater than the Messiah. I don't teach that Sabbath is more important than Messiah. I teach to guard the Sabbath day because if you are saved it is your day to find rest and meet the creator. Keep ignoring the Word and you will find yourselves on the wrong mountain.

Salvation is either by grace through faith or it is not!
Clearly you believe NOT!

Teaching that one is obliged to keep the Sabbath because the alternative is eternal damnation is foreign to a new covenant believer - and a false interpretation of the word of God!

You are a false teacher...

 

[JohnTalmid]

Salvation is either by grace through faith or it is not!
Clearly you believe NOT!

Teaching that one is obliged to keep the Sabbath because the alternative is eternal damnation is foreign to a new covenant believer - and a false interpretation of the word of God!

You are a false teacher...

That's nothing to do with what I have said. You are beeing very harsh. A sin is a sin. Or do you count yourself above sin and death? I know better than that. I said not guarding Sabbath by not working on it or at least remember the day on the day we are sinning. What a bunch of hot wash. Don't you know we are all called to be perfect! How are you doing that by rejecting the Sabbath day still and in effect you are blaspheming the name by attempting to change the law. Truly there is no need to change the law because it has been completed and is being lived now in the Kingdom of Elohim.

 

[beta]

Salvation is either by grace through faith or it is not!
Clearly you believe NOT!

Teaching that one is obliged to keep the Sabbath because the alternative is eternal damnation is foreign to a new covenant believer - and a false interpretation of the word of God!

You are a false teacher...

NO ONE is OBLIGED to keep the Sabbath in the NT ! and NO ONE is teaching that ! but you won't hear ! NT says we keep His Commandments because we LOVE Him !!! Do you know what L O V E is ??? Do you know what OBLIGED means ?

 

[gotime]

When Jesus said this:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Yes what He used was "it is written"

And here it is:

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.




So again we have proof that Jesus used the OT.

Yet we still have a lot of people quoting much of the NT but still unable to support their interpretations of it form the OT.

 

[gotime]

It seems to me that people do not understand the way scripture works.

The OT was all there was for a long time. When the NT came it came because of the following reasons.

1, To bear witness that Jesus is the promised messiah, they did this by testimony of Jesus linked with OT prophecies.
2, Letters to believers to correct them and teach them what is right for one who follows Jesus to do. They did this by using the OT.

In fact Any time they taught something that would be seen as going against the OT they would quote the OT or refer to it to back up that what they were teaching was in fact in line with the OT.

The OT was the word of God. The NT bore witness to that fact and still does today.

Once you get this you will see things differently. The OT and NT agree with each other.

But as soon as you make the NT say the Sabbath is changed or gone or a shadow when the OT teaches the opposite then you have a problem.

The NT did not replace the OT it bore witness to it.

So the fact that the OT does not indicate anywhere that the 7th day Sabbath was a shadow of Christ. But does indicate that feast and feast Sabbaths were a shadow. We can see that Paul referred not to the 7th day Sabbath. It is easy enough to prove those points from the Bible and not one of those who have spoken up against it have been able to show otherwise from scripture.

 

[graceNpeace]

It seems to me that people do not understand the way scripture works.

The OT was all there was for a long time. When the NT came it came because of the following reasons.

1, To bear witness that Jesus is the promised messiah, they did this by testimony of Jesus linked with OT prophecies.
2, Letters to believers to correct them and teach them what is right for one who follows Jesus to do. They did this by using the OT.

In fact Any time they taught something that would be seen as going against the OT they would quote the OT or refer to it to back up that what they were teaching was in fact in line with the OT.

The OT was the word of God. The NT bore witness to that fact and still does today.

Once you get this you will see things differently. The OT and NT agree with each other.

But as soon as you make the NT say the Sabbath is changed or gone or a shadow when the OT teaches the opposite then you have a problem.

The NT did not replace the OT it bore witness to it.

So the fact that the OT does not indicate anywhere that the 7th day Sabbath was a shadow of Christ. But does indicate that feast and feast Sabbaths were a shadow. We can see that Paul referred not to the 7th day Sabbath. It is easy enough to prove those points from the Bible and not one of those who have spoken up against it have been able to show otherwise from scripture.

The only thing that comes out clearly in your posting is that you ignore anything in the NT that does not say what you want it to.
Your credentials are well known on this forum so it is not a surprise that you would do this!
My guess is that at least some of your supporting cast are also SDA and their views are all like peas in a pod too.

Ellen White has made it very hard to ACTUALLY go with the plain meaning of the Word since you have to account for her heresies since you count her a prophetess - well that is your burden I suppose....

 

[beta]

The only thing that comes out clearly in your posting is that you ignore anything in the NT that does not say what you want it to.
Your credentials are well known on this forum so it is not a surprise that you would do this!
My guess is that at least some of your supporting cast are also SDA and their views are all like peas in a pod too.

Ellen White has made it very hard to ACTUALLY go with the plain meaning of the Word since you have to account for her heresies since you count her a prophetess - well that is your burden I suppose....

I have no idea what SDA teach...I'm not one of them.
Do you know you can't have a Plant above ground without ROOTS ?
Concentrating on NT only will give you a beautiful display of 'cut flowers' that will sadly soon wither and die...and you would not even have them at all if not grown from roots....so don't be so foolish as to reject them....or the OT.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we were children and our parents would tell us to bhave, we would do it.

Why is it so difficult to listen to our Father Who is in heaven?

Jesus Christ came to explain to us how to be obedient children saved by grace (only), so why not learn from Him. He invites all to leanr of Him, yet the vast majority do not. How can this be?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Well HAPPY SABBATH everyone (my time) seems like its been busy in here while I have been away? Nice to see all you wonderful people! gotime welcome back as well! I am so happy my rest is here with Jesus! May Gods blessing be with you all

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hahaha! What can ya do bro. Judaizers gonna judaize. Aint none of these dudes even Jewish is what gets me the most, in another thread we have some dude saying he studied under rabbis and using the word HaShem.
When I became a christian i quit all that, stop studying under rabbis and get to digging the scriptures in prayer and maybe listen to a PASTOR not a rabbi, amen?
And I beg yet again, if you did not grow up Jewish, don't start using three hebrew words making it look like you are some messianic jew, its embarrasing...
IF you want to keep the Sabbath, good for you, God bless you. But to teach that not observing the Sabbath is the mark of the beast or that Christians are in risk of losing their salvation over what day they rest on......... come on.
If keeping the Sabbath was that important in the New Covenant it woulda been mentioned by the Apostles, especially Paul to some of the gentile churches but instead he wrote:
Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Hello Issachar92,

So nice to meet you. Why do you think I or the majority of people here study under a rabbi? Do you know me or anyone here? Seems you are claiming things you know little about and have no basis in fact. I have one teacher, my farther which is in Heaven (God's Word). If you have something to say from God's Word I am happy to talk to you because I love God's Word. If you are here to demean and judge another man’s walk with God then maybe you need to ask yourself if you are following God because only God knows if someone is walking with him or not. The fruit of the spirit is love. Do you love Jesus and are your words the fruit of love?

God gave the 7th Day Sabbath as a day of rest for the people of God. Some entered not into this rest because of their unbelief. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments of God (Ex 20:8-11). God's Law is the work of God himself, written with God's own finger on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to His people and always kept separate from all the other laws of Moses that were written in a Book (Torah). It is the Book that Col 2:16 is referring to (read Lev 23) that bears witness. God Law is forever and perfect converting the soul and has never been a Shadow of anything and will always be because it is the character of God (Ecc 3:14; Luke 16:17; Ps 19:7)

It is God's Word that tells us that sin is the breaking of God's Law (1John 3:4) and if we break only one of God's commandments we are guilty before God of breaking all of His Laws and are guilty before God (James 2:10-11). If we continue in sin God's Word tells us that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). This is how it has always been in the Old Testament and how it will always be in the New Testament.

The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th commandment in God's Law (Ex 20:8-11) and if you break it just like all the other commandments according to God's Word we stand guilty before God condemned under the Law as a sinner and unbeliever in need of a saviour. Unless we turn to God in repentance you will not stand before God in the judgement.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Rom 1:18) "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." (Isa 55:6-7)

May I suggest that you read all of Colossians 2 for context, Leviticus 23 and John 19:31 to help you with your interpretation of Col 2:16. Don’t just take another’s interpretation of God’s Word, study for yourself and ask Jesus. The topic for Col 2:16 has already been covered here in this forum in posts Col 2:16 Feasts days 1166, 1168, 1369; Different laws in the OT, 1149, 1388, 1539 if you are interested also in other places in this thread.


God bless you

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If keeping the Sabbath was that important in the New Covenant it woulda been mentioned by the Apostles, especially Paul to some of the gentile churches but instead he wrote:

There is no evidence that Paul or the disciples did not keep the Sabbath. The contrary is actually true. We know that they did keep it.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Grandpa.

Comments in red for you because I care.

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever referring to post 1545 or context
The Key points to the above is that God's true people identified by the Word of God will keep ALL of God's commandments through their faith in the saving power of God's Word. Therefore God's last day people will be 7th Day Sabbath keepers because this is one of the 10 commandments and identifies God's people as those that worship the God of creation and the Lord of the Sabbath Jesus God bless you

No, they won't be working at the law in their own understanding.

No one said they will be working at the law in their own understanding only you said this no one else said claims this at all.

They will have entered into rest by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Absolutely! You do know however that this passage of scripture is referring to God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath don’t you? Verse 9 you left out is the context, Let’s look at it….
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.”
Strong's Concordance
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9 N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people
Those that did not enter into God’s rest did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins)

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. The law is not of faith.

I agree with your scripture above and have no problem with it. Amen!

Galatians 3:11-12So how are you going to enter Gods Rest if you are working at the law? You aren't. You are falling after the example of unbelief.

No one is working at the law my friend this is where you have a misunderstanding. Although I do not know why you misunderstand as I have already told you that it is only by faith in Christ and his Word that we have salvation. The new covenant is our God saving sinners from their sins as we completely depend on the Word of God only to do what it says it will do. Then God will work in you to change your heart and life so you can walk in His ways (Heb 8:10-12; Phil 2:13). Remember that Hebrews 4 is talking about entering into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest. This is the rest that the people of God enter into. The other could not enter in because of Unbelief (sin).

and its only by faith in believing God’s Word that

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You either work at the law in your own understanding or you have faith in Christ. You have to put one away in order to do the other.

I love the scriptures but once again no one is saying or telling you that we are justified or have to be saved by the works of the Law. We are saved by Faith in Jesus already discussed above. Not sure why you keep saying the same old things after we already tell you we agree with this already. That is your misunderstanding I think. The works of the Law are the fruit of our faith which is love. We follow Jesus because we love him. Jesus says to us if you love me keep the commandments. So we follow him who first loved us.

This is what Paul, who knew the law better than anyone here, had to say.
Philippians 3:8-9
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Amen love those scripture!

You are claiming right standing with God by your work at the law. You basically have no understanding of the scriptures. Or someone has confused you so bad you don't know up from down.

Once again you own words and interpretation testify against you. No one is saying that we are saved by the works of the Law. Only you are saying this so what your words have no truth in them.

All these scriptures are straight forward. They all reconcile with each other but you have half the bible fighting with the other half.

Sorry friend, this is not correct either. I believe in every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old bears witness to the new. Everything from the New comes from the Old Testament scripture and both are in harmony with each other. It is your interpretation that is your stumbling stone because you do not believe all the Word of God and your finding that other scriptures in the Word of God are conflicting with your belief.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore?

Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
You can attain to Right Standing with God. But its not by your work and understanding of the law. Its by faith. And the law is not of faith.

Once again no one here is disagreeing with any of those scriptures. They are great. We can only attain to God’s righteousness by complete dependence and Faith in His promises.

Here's one for the road;

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? What does the law say to people who would work at it? JaumeJ knows...Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Ditto

Ok Grandpa hope this helps you and clears any misunderstandings you may have. Now that that is clear you may need to examine your interpretation of God’s Word which can be verified by the two witnessed, the Old and the New Testament. (Every Word that proceeds out of the moth of God)

May God help you.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Exactly...Judaizers are all about days and diet. I suppose some of them toss in physical circumcision. But that's the main focus. There wouldn't be a problem with that if they didn't fixate on judging non-observers as being in sin, and often claiming they are following a Satanic system (Babylon the Great, Revelation 17, Mark of the Beast stuff). Been there, done that, though. I played the same game as them.

"I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work." (Ecc 3:17)

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Heb 10:26-27)

 

[JaumeJ]

If a professing brother in Jesus spends all of his time looking for sin in others, that person, to me ayway, is more a person under the law than those he accuses for he professes to know who is breaking the law and who is not.

Do not judge your brother in what he eats or does not eat. Have you not learned all of this from the Word you profess to know so well?

The days held in reverence or not, accorxding to Paul's learned-teaching are fine as long as they are observed with a clear conscience in the sight of god.....remember His ways are not always our ways. Also, He declares "So what if I choose to justify the ungodly." A clear admonition not to judge to condemnation, and to say a brother is sinning is tantamount to declaring him living in in sin. Quiet your soul and settle down

Jesus has clarified all in the Gospel He gives to us all. Unhappily most here wour rather quote other people or authors of books on the Word. Which is most useful, to read all about the Word or toread the Word in faith..?

Leave people alone who love Jesus Christ. If others do not do exactly as you say, I certainly hope at least you do as you say.

 

[Ariel82]

There wouldn't be a problem with that if they didn't fixate on judging non-observers as being in sin, and often claiming they are following a Satanic system (Babylon the Great, Revelation 17, Mark of the Beast stuff).

Yep this pretty much sums my beliefs on the topic of seventh day Sabbath observance and dietary laws also.

People are free to observe the Sabbath as their traditions dictate but true rest/Sabbath is found in Christ alone. Just as He is our Manna from heaven.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yep this pretty much sums my beliefs on the topic also.

People are free to observe the Sabbath as their traditions dictate but true rest/Sabbath is found in Christ alone. Just as He is our Manna from heaven.

The Sabbath is not a tradition it is a commandment of God. (Ex 20:8-11) You break it you break God's Law. Sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4). Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) Do you love Jesus Ariel?