Does God Lie?

bluto · Jul 13, 2017

Come on denadii the denier. You said this, "Where did God, just once in the bible say no to someone who needed healing? By Jesus stripes you WERE healed. Believe it!! You have the faith of Jesus. Use it."

at post #18. Like I said, according to the context of 1 Peter 2:23-25 it is not about physically healing. It could not be more clear. Secondly, there is an old adage that you interprete the New Testament in light of the Old Testament because the New Testament is the fullfillment of the Old Testament.

So what you have here is the Apsotle Peter quoting what you quoted in the Old Testament (Isaiah 53:5) and properly applying it to spiritual healing which is far more important than physical healing. Even vs25 confirms what I'm telling you because as sheep we are not to stray away from the Shepherd and Guardian OF OUR SOULS. So again I'm going to ask you, where am I wrong?

Lastly, I even ask you what kind of healing is the Apostle Peter talking about? Did you answer, no.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Denadii · Jul 13, 2017

bluto said:

Denadii said:

I said this "Where did God, just once in the bible say no to someone who needed healing?"

At another time I said this "By Jesus stripes you WERE healed. Believe it!! You have the faith of Jesus. Use it."

Like I said According to the Book you are wrong. Its for our healing. All of our healing...

Angela53510 · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

bluto said:

First, it is NOT Isa. 53:3, but Isa. 53:5. You would know that if you had ever cracked a Bible open, instead of just throwing out 6 words. So, context, again, because you are a slow learner.

"Surely he took up our painand bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:4-6

First, the entire chapter of Isa. 53 is about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. It is in no place about physical healing. If you had read it, you would understand.

So what pain did Jesus take up? Well, the pain of our consequences of our transgressions, iniquities and sins.

Why was Jesus punished, including being whipped, and then having to carry his own cross. Well, because of our sins.
Why was Jesus pierced the the Roman swords? Well, because of our transgressions!
Why was Jesus crushed? Because of our iniquities.
Why was Jesus punished? So that we could have peace with God! Because our SINS separated us from God.

There is no peace, when you are separated from God. Our sickness did not separate us from God. Our sins did! Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and the woulds that we are healed from, are the wounds of sin and death.

Verses 7-9 detail how Jesus suffered because of us.

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin," Verse 53:10a.

So why did Jesus go to the cross? Very clearly, verse 10 above says - "he makes his life an offering for sin."

"because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors." Isa 53:12

Then, Isaiah finishes with the whole reason Jesus died.

Was it for healing of the body or healing of the soul? Because sin damages the soul. It wound us in our being. So, we need to be healed of the wounds of sin sickness.

When you pick 6 words out of the end of verse 5, you miss the entire purpose of Isa. 53 - that is to document - or in fact to prophecy how Jesus would die, how he would suffer both on the cross and on the way to the cross, so that he could bear the sin of many. He made his life an offering for sin.

This is the REAL gospel. And this is the message of Isaiah 53, Isaiah, the Old Testament and the New Testament! Not a few words carefully hidden, that are pulled out of context by deceitful teachers and liars who do not understand the basics of how to read the Bible! Nor do they understand the real gospel, as you do not seem to either.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

bluto said:

And it is still spiritual healing, not physical, if it was physical, the moment we got t saved we will use never fall ill again and never die,

joefizz · Jul 13, 2017

sevenseas said:

oh ok I think I get what you mean and yeah what's done is done,though unfortunately either way question or not a few people keep derailing these threads anyways,so half the time if you ask a question there is not always sensible answers,sad really,but nobody's perfect,I hope the woman who made this thread does gain some understanding from this thread too,after all "with God all things are possible" besides while people have there eyes on bible discussion forum I'm welcoming and helping lost souls so I have that to attend to,each to their own preferences I suppose,talk to you later,and may God bless you.

prove-all · Jul 13, 2017

James 5:14 (KJV)
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church;
and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

-

future mill. God compares disease and sickness with sins and forgiven their iniquity

“And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein
shall be forgiven their iniquity” (Isaiah 33:21-22, 24).

“Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are
of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind
shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man
leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing…” (Isaiah 35:3-6).

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily

Desertsrose · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

bluto said:

Hi Denadii,

I want to respond because 1 Peter is fresh in my mind because a group of us just studied it.

Not that this makes me right, but I think if you think it through it might be helpful.

I believe we can be healed, I don't however believe it to be a guarantee to all of us. The scripture you quoted would help if you keep it in its context. This tends to be a problem for many of us. I use to quote scripture out of context so I'm not coming down on you for it. But we really can't fully understand what the bible is saying if we leave context out of the equation.

1 Peter 2:21-25
For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

1 Peter talks a lot about those who suffer in this world as Christians. And this is what the context is about. We have been called to suffer. As Jesus suffered, He left us an example of how to suffer.

We are to suffer without deceit, we're not to revile when someone reviles us, we're not to threaten those who persecute us.......but instead we are to keep entrusting ourselves to Him who judges righteously.

And Peter reminds those scattered in the diaspora that Jesus suffered as He bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness and then Peter says: for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

The context of being healed by His wounds is of us straying as sheep, we were sick in our souls and as Jesus suffered on the cross it was so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. We were sin-sick and our Lord healed them by taking our sin upon Him at the cross.

No where in any of the text is Jesus talking about physically healing the body. It's just not there.

Desertsrose · Jul 13, 2017

Meggido said:

Kenneth Hagin Sr. also died from a massive heart attack and said in his books he was totally healed of that....He died in cardiac ICU at a hospital in Tulsa OK.

He claims never to have a cold, etc...I know many in WOF that will never go tot he doctor and die at home, for fear of being judged for not having "faith"

How sad that is!

DarkRose · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

wouldn't love in action be going to see if you can help? or, something practical along those lines...?

DarkRose · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

if what you're saying is true then why...when Jesus asked that this cup be taken from him before he went to the cross...didn't God spare or save him from that? I read some of your posts and you keep saying "just have faith and believe. God wants everyone to be wholly healthy" but didn't He say no to Jesus when he hung on the cross? Didn't he say no when Jesus was sweating blood? Jesus had to suffer and yet we can assume God will never want us to physically suffer?
Maybe it's cause I'm new at this, but something doesn't add up...

And also, I'm sure someone else has already said it, if you believe that God wants everyone to be healthy and that you are able to heal people (or whatever) then, as someone who works with the sick and dying, are you patrolling the hallways of hospitals and nursing homes to see if there is any practical way you can love these suffering people? Just wondering

DarkRose · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

but why do you insist that God's grace must present itself in the way that you deem appropriate?
I just don't get it...gosh it's easy to get caught up in these threads...

Denadii · Jul 13, 2017

DarkRose said:

It is easy to get caught up in the threads. LOL God's Grace (His empowering PRESENCE) kicks the slats out of any 'thorn' In this case the thorn was a 'messenger from Satan, sent to buffet Paul. No demon can stand in Gods PRESENCE Not ever. That makes the answer to Pauls prayer a YEA and AMEN

your turn bluto...something else to attack me with

DarkRose · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

but isn't God's presence everywhere? He is omnipresent, isn't He?

and what's a Bluto?

prove-all · Jul 13, 2017

Denadii said:

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation,
and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,
which [accused them before our God] day and night.

-

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before
the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Denadii · Jul 13, 2017

DarkRose said:

God's Grace in you...Grace is God's Empowering PRESENCE in you.

A Bluto is a major pest who has been riding me most of the day. Along with a few others. They say I'm a heretic.

DarkRose · Jul 14, 2017

Denadii said:

A heretic? that's a pretty bold claim.
I'm starting to think if I just want someone to call me names, find some god fearing Christian folk. Seems like they'd be happy to do it for you.

lol

on another note, if God's grace is his presence in you (or me), and if God's presence is everywhere...then how can any demon or whatever stand anywhere if they can't stand in his presence?

Denadii · Jul 14, 2017

DarkRose said:

It's not a name anyone wants to be called. Especially just for saying what the Word says. Oh Well. Not my problem.

The demons cannot stand in His PRESENCE unless we allow it. We still call it. Whatever we speak is what we will see. If you come under attack of the enemy all you have to do is tell it to leave. Or shut up..........Oops. I should have done that this morning... When I came under attack.....

pottersclay · Jul 14, 2017

[h=1]Then shall the lame man leap like a deer: God and the Disabled[/h]Peter Avery | 29 July, 1999
[FONT=&quot]28 years ago, my wife Gaye gave birth to our second daughter. After a very long labour and a breach birth, Leah was born four weeks early. We suspected that something was wrong with her quite early on. She was misdiagnosed at 18 months with cerebral palsy, but Leah never seemed to be like other children with that condition. At the age of 15, Leah was correctly diagnosed with Angelman Syndrome, a fairly rare genetic condition where there’s a small deletion in the 15th chromosome. Having a 28-year-old severely disabled daughter who doesn’t speak and who has the understanding of a three-year-old has brought many difficulties, frustrations and disappointments. But she has also brought our family a tremendous amount of fun and laughter.
[FONT=&quot]Families never plan to have a disabled child. We live in a society that strives for and idolizes perfection, with people paying exorbitant amounts of money to have reconstructions done on their bodies. Yet about four million Australians have a disability. That’s one in five. You probably know someone who is disabled, or you may have some kind of disability yourself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The question I want to ask is, “How do people with bodies that are less than perfect fit into God’s world?” What is the big picture of how God views his creation? How does he view people with disabilities? How should we view them? How do people with disabilities fit into his plan? Let’s have a look at what the Bible has to say.[/FONT]
[h=2]1. God is responsible for people having disabilities[/h][FONT=&quot]In Exodus 4, God is just about to put his plan to rescue the Israelites into operation. He chooses Moses to be his spokesperson. But Moses responds by saying, “Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue” (v. 10). Moses isn’t keen to accept the job because he doesn’t think he can speak well enough. Perhaps he had some sort of speech impediment. In reply, the all-powerful creator reminds Moses, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (v. 11).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Notice what God is saying. He is the one who creates human mouths. In Moses’ case, God created Moses with an imperfect mouth. God is also responsible for the mute, the deaf, the seeing and the blind. It’s clear that God gives abilities and withholds abilities. He is in control when things go well in our lives and when things don’t go to plan.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We live in a world where accidents happen all the time—at birth, before birth (as in the case of Leah), in the car, in the home and in the workplace. If all the accidents that take place in the world were outside of God’s control, it would indeed be a frightening and unpredictable world. Knowing that God is sovereign is liberating and refreshing. In his great wisdom he gives and withholds abilities so that through our weak and frail bodies he can work out his good purposes for his honour and glory. We have a loving heavenly father who cares greatly about every aspect of our lives as his dear children. Psalm 139:13-16 tells us:[/FONT]

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there were none of them.

[FONT=&quot]That God is in control is a wonderful incentive to put our trust in his word day by day as we live under his care.[/FONT]
[h=2]2. Disabilities are signposts of a broken and fallen world[/h][FONT=&quot]Although God made this world good, when our first parents, Adam and his wife, turned their back on God’s loving care and rebelled against his authority, it had a devastating effect on the whole of creation. We see it in earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes and floods. We see it when our bodies get sick, when we pass on diseases to one another, when we age, when our organs wear out and when we die. We see it in our warped emotions, thoughts and actions. We see it in our propensity towards evil, for, given the opportunity, our true natures show themselves for what they are. We see it in the ugliness of flawed human relationships—in broken marriages and dysfunctional families. And we see it in our physical disabilities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Physical disabilities signify the presence of sin, and sin prevents us from coming into the presence of God. We see this in Leviticus 21:17-20 where God lays down the regulations for the priests, the sons of Aaron:[/FONT]

None of your offspring throughout their generations who has a blemish may approach to offer the bread of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles.

[FONT=&quot]Disabilities are like signposts telling us there’s something dreadfully wrong with this world because of our collective rebellion.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, it’s not just physical disabilities. We are all spiritually disabled. Man was made in the image of God to be the pinnacle of creation, but because of sin, he is blind: he closes his eyes to the glory and majesty of God; he is dumb: he does not glorify God and give him thanks as his creator; he is lame: he is under the curse of death; and, saddest of all, he is deaf: he doesn’t hear the voice of his creator and he does not want to. We are all in need of a saviour.[/FONT]
[h=2]3. God has a special concern for people with disabilities and special needs[/h][FONT=&quot]Fortunately for us, God has a very special concern for the disadvantaged and disabled amongst God’s people—the fatherless, the widowed, the foreigner, the poor and the disabled (Ps 146:8-9). He is the “Father of the fatherless” and a “protector of widows” (Ps 68:5). He gives justice to the “weak” and maintains “the right of the afflicted and destitute” (Ps 82:3).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Because God had a special concern for these people, Israel was also to have a special concern for them too. For example, in Leviticus 19:14 God commands the Israelites, saying, “You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord”. However, as Israel turned her back on God and things went from bad to worse, the fatherless, the widowed, the foreigner, the poor and the disabled were forgotten and mistreated. So the prophet Isaiah said,[/FONT]

Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees,
and the writers who keep writing oppression,
to turn aside the needy from justice
and to rob the poor of my people of their right,
that widows may be their spoil,
and that they may make the fatherless their prey!
(Isa 10:1-2)

[FONT=&quot]Just as God poured out his judgement on these perpetrators of injustice, so too will he hold us responsible for the way we treat the weak in our society.[/FONT]
[h=2]4. God promises to restore fallen creation[/h][FONT=&quot]But during this period of failure in Israel’s history when the whole nation was disabled before God and under the shadow of his judgement, Isaiah also spoke of the promise of a new creation when the land would see “the glory of the Lord, the majesty of our God” (Isa 35:2). The coming of the Lord would bring salvation (35:4) and, as a result,[/FONT]

… the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
and the ears of the deaf unstopped;
then shall the lame man leap like a deer,
and the tongue of the mute sing for joy. (35:5-6)

[FONT=&quot]When God saves his people, the evidence will be seen in the healing of broken bodies. Those who displayed the brokenness of the world and the crippling nature of sin in their bodies will now have new restored bodies. Those who experienced frustration and pain because of their bodies’ deficiencies will now be granted bodies that will function beautifully in heaven.[/FONT]
[h=2]5. Jesus breaks the power of sin and begins to restore creation[/h][FONT=&quot]But how does God do this? How is the promise of Isaiah 35 fulfilled in the New Testament? In Matthew 11, when John the Baptist is in prison, John sends his disciples to Jesus to ask him whether or not he is the Christ. Jesus replies,[/FONT]

“Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.” (vv. 4-6)

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ words came straight from Isaiah 35. He was saying to John that his healing miracles were evidence that he is God’s special king, God’s Christ. Not only did Jesus heal the blind, the lame, the deaf and the dumb, he also cured lepers and raised the dead, going far beyond the promise stated in Isaiah 35. And not only did Jesus restore their bodies, he made their spirits alive as well. So in Matthew 20:30-34, for example, when the two blind men received their sight, they also received spiritual sight as well, and they began to follow Jesus. In Jesus we see “the glory of the Lord, the majesty of our God” (Isa 35:2b) as he smashes the power of sin and restores people’s bodies to wholeness.[/FONT]
[h=2]6. Jesus is the perfect priest who brings us salvation[/h][FONT=&quot]But sin’s hold on God’s creatures can only be broken by a perfect priest who offers the perfect sacrifice. The passage I quoted earlier in Leviticus 21 isn’t mainly about the connection between disabilities and sin; it’s about preventing the disabled sons of Aaron from serving as priests in the tabernacle/temple. Talk about discrimination! The Equal Opportunity Commission would have had a field day! But who is the one doing the discriminating? In verse 16, it is clear it’s the Lord. It’s bad enough that we live in a world where people are discriminated against all the time; why does God do it here in the Bible?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The answer is in verse 23: “… he shall not go through the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries, for I am the Lord who sanctifies them”. God discriminated against the disabled sons of Aaron so that our sins could be forgiven. God is holy and we are not. He cannot tolerate imperfection because of his holiness. In the Old Testament sacrificial system, God was teaching his people that we can only approach him through a perfect priest who offers a perfect sacrifice. That perfect priest could only be Jesus. So the Old Testament priests could not have any physical blemishes as they were foreshadowing Jesus, the perfect priest. The writer of Hebrews says of him,[/FONT]

For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever. (Heb 7:26-28)

[FONT=&quot]As the father of a disabled daughter, you can probably understand my dislike of discrimination. But I rejoice in and am glad about the fact that God discriminated against the disabled so that our sins could be forgiven and we could come into a relationship with him.[/FONT]
[h=2]7. God has given us his Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our restoration[/h][FONT=&quot]We still look forward to the day when our weak mortal bodies will be transformed into heavenly bodies, fit for the new heavens and new earth. But until that day, where do we stand? The Apostle Paul says that if we belong to Christ, we are already part of the new creation (2 Cor 5:17). We still have our fallen bodies, but because we have put our trust in Christ, we have the Holy Spirit—the guarantee that our bodies will be made new (2 Cor 5:1-5). All believers in Christ will have new bodies, not just the physically disabled. So Paul encourages us in Romans 8:22-25 with these words:[/FONT]

For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

[FONT=&quot]One day we will see the blind, the deaf, the lame and the dumb healed and part of the great gathering of God’s people. What will the blind man be looking at? His eyes will be on his Lord and he’ll see him face to face. The lame man will have new legs that will allow him to leap for joy. The deaf man will be able to hear the people of God rejoicing in God’s goodness, mercy and salvation. And the dumb man, with his new voice, will enter the gates of the heavenly city with the rest of God’s people, singing praises with all his might.[/FONT]
[h=2]8. We are to love the people with disabilities[/h][FONT=&quot]Given everything I’ve just said, the most important thing disabled people need is to hear the good news about Jesus. People with disabilities need all kinds of physical and emotional support, but their need to hear the good news of forgiveness of sins is more important, just like it is for everyone else. Their physical needs can sometimes be so overwhelming that we forget that their greatest need is to hear the gospel, and receive forgiveness of sins and relationship with God through Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, disabled Christians are an indispensable part of the body of Christ, his church. As God’s people, we must see ourselves not only connected to Jesus, but vitally connected to each other. The seemingly unimpressive gatherings that meet each week in our church buildings are part of God’s new creation. You may never have thought of church like that (as we don’t look like we’re heavenly, what with all our warts) but Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:14-22 and 1 Corinthians 12:12-26 that all of us—individuals of different backgrounds, interests and cultures—have been knitted together into one body in Christ through the gospel. Christians with disabilities are part of that body, and they have a unique and special contribution to make to our fellowship.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have many brothers and sisters in Christ who struggle with a whole range of disabilities—some more obvious than others. Some have frail bodies because of their age. Some suffer from mental illness. Some have physical disabilities, for example, blindness and deafness, which make participating in church hard. It’s not easy for many who struggle. We must learn humility, patience, gentleness, and genuine love and care. Sometimes we will need to be firm. That’s exactly what Leah needs when she wants to jump fully clothed into a bath full of water. Sometimes we will need to sit with someone and listen to them for a long time, rather than rush off to do something we want to do. Sometimes we will need to plan a visit to help with the mowing or the other jobs that our brothers and sisters cannot do. Sometimes we will need to open our homes to offer hospitality and friendship. Whatever we do in our fellowship, our weakest members must never be forgotten. They must always be included in everything, and encouraged to see that they have something unique to offer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Finally, there is one word that sums up Jesus’ attitude when he was confronted with the enormous needs of a broken world: ‘compassion’. It’s a beautiful word and it literally means ‘a gut reaction’. In this digital and technological age, we have become desensitized to the needs of others. But when Jesus was confronted with sickness, disease, death, the spiritually poor and the disabled, his heart went out to them because they had no-one to help them. They were like sheep without a shepherd (Matt 9:36). God had compassion toward you and me in his death on the cross, and he wants us to show that same gut reaction to each other here in our fellowship.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It won’t always be easy. But the lessons we learn together as a church—in caring, supporting and serving each other—are lessons that are preparing us for eternity. We have a unique opportunity to show that we are different to the world in the way that we treat our weakest members. Governments can pass laws to protect people with special needs, but laws can’t change people’s hearts. May God enable us to act in compassion and patience with each other in the same way that he acted towards us, as we await that glorious day when everything will be set right—the day when Jesus is glorified and given all the praise and honour due to his name.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

BenFTW · Jul 14, 2017

Angela53510 said:

Denadii said:

First, it is NOT Isa. 53:3, but Isa. 53:5. You would know that if you had ever cracked a Bible open, instead of just throwing out 6 words. So, context, again, because you are a slow learner.

"Surely he took up our painand bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:4-6

First, the entire chapter of Isa. 53 is about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. It is in no place about physical healing. If you had read it, you would understand.

So what pain did Jesus take up? Well, the pain of our consequences of our transgressions, iniquities and sins.

Why was Jesus punished, including being whipped, and then having to carry his own cross. Well, because of our sins.
Why was Jesus pierced the the Roman swords? Well, because of our transgressions!
Why was Jesus crushed? Because of our iniquities.
Why was Jesus punished? So that we could have peace with God! Because our SINS separated us from God.

There is no peace, when you are separated from God. Our sickness did not separate us from God. Our sins did! Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and the woulds that we are healed from, are the wounds of sin and death.

Verses 7-9 detail how Jesus suffered because of us.

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin," Verse 53:10a.

So why did Jesus go to the cross? Very clearly, verse 10 above says - "he makes his life an offering for sin."

"because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors." Isa 53:12

Then, Isaiah finishes with the whole reason Jesus died.

Was it for healing of the body or healing of the soul? Because sin damages the soul. It wound us in our being. So, we need to be healed of the wounds of sin sickness.

When you pick 6 words out of the end of verse 5, you miss the entire purpose of Isa. 53 - that is to document - or in fact to prophecy how Jesus would die, how he would suffer both on the cross and on the way to the cross, so that he could bear the sin of many. He made his life an offering for sin.

This is the REAL gospel. And this is the message of Isaiah 53, Isaiah, the Old Testament and the New Testament! Not a few words carefully hidden, that are pulled out of context by deceitful teachers and liars who do not understand the basics of how to read the Bible! Nor do they understand the real gospel, as you do not seem to either.

Once again, skipping verse 4 to make a point that is contradicted with contextual verses. Matthew 8:17 and Isaiah 53:4. Cross reference them, and see that in fact physical healing is discussed in Isaiah 53.

PeterJens · Jul 14, 2017

BenFTW said:

Angela53510 said:

BenFTW - I agree with you, Jesus heals our spiritual and physical wounds.

A physical wounds are healed with a new body in heaven, and spiritual wounds by healing
through the Holy Spirit in our minds and soul as we walk in His ways.

Now where you are extending things is to a physical wounds today, in our bodies.
Now all God offers are temporary works of physical healing today to some of some ailments.
Think of the type of ailments our bodies have.
1. Growth deformities
2. Eye sight problems
3. Teeth problems
4. Wearing out problems, arthritis, osteoporosis
5. Immunological illnesses
6. Heart desease
7. Cancer
8. Dementia
9. Strokes

We will die of one or more of these problems. So all healing today in Christ is temporary.
The Lord as gifts of grace will heal, as part of His will expressed through His people.

But we actually need to agree together we believe it is for His glory and not just a nice
excuse or display that does not matter and will not mean anything.

Does God Lie?

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