The Rapture

J7 · Jul 23, 2017

13 And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, and dry like a wilderness.

.....

20 [FONT=&quot]At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

Bogadile · Jul 23, 2017

Old Testament can be a maze. It is difficult to know what is future and what is past due to the often symbolic language. One thing we know for sure is that one regathering of Israel was the regathering from Babylon's captivity which is mentioned clearly.
I can confess I have no idea what part is future and what is past in the Old Testament. The NT is much easier to navigate.

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Bogadile said:

I think in revelation talking about the wedding, Jesus and His church

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2017

AHW,

You are much closer to the truth than I first thought. If you replace "earth" with "Israel" and move the GT to the first century, you would be 100% correct. The Church fled to Pella during the Passover of 66 AD when they were so instructed to do so by angels and a divine voice. Then Vespasian surrounded the city.

There were signs leading up to this event that "Watchers" recognized and warned the population. A star resembling a sword appeared over the city and a comet that was visible for a whole year. Comets are associated with bad omens of pending disaster. During the Feast of Unleavened Bread on 8 Nisan, a great light shown around the altar turning night into day. At the same festival a heifer led into the temple to be sacrificed gave birth to a lamb. Heifers are young cows without blemish and not pregnant. Talk about a sign!! Then the eastern gate to the temple swung open all by itself. It usually took 20 men to move that gate. The ignorant thought it was a good sign, but the wise knew it meant God was opening the door to their enemies.

The church had seen enough and remembering Christ's words from 36 years earlier, and when they heard a voice from heaven saying, "Let's remove hence," they got out of Dodge and fast. As conditions worsened, and the people started dying in huge numbers at the hands of the tyrants and their robbers, many were deceived thinking Caesar Vespasian (and later Titus) had come to rescue them. Those that made it out of the city alive fled to the Romans and their auxiliaries only to be disemboweled as the troops were looking for gold or gems the people had swallowed.

By the time Titus broke through to the Temple over 650,000 had died and some 98,000 called upon the name of the Lord and were saved. They had endured the Great Tribulation and survived. So, your view is pretty darn good, but your scope and timing are way off

.

Oh and BTW, from the arrival of Vespasian to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, 3.5 years passed. 3.5 years later, Masada fell. See what I'm getting at???? As KJV asked, if this wasn't the Great Tribulation, then one just like this needs to happen in the future.

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

That is because Noah and his family were to repopulate the earth.

In opposition, the church has the following promise from the Lord to remove them from the earth:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and fulfill the above promise, taking the church back to the Father's house. The Church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore believers cannot be on the earth when God's wrath is being poured out. In that respect it is not the same as Noah. When the church is gathered they will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2017

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

So now the last hope which supported the tyrants, and that crew of robbers who were with them, was in the caves and caverns under ground; whither, if they could once fly, they did not expect to be searched for; but endeavored, that after the whole city should be destroyed, and the Romans gone away, they might come out again, and escape from them. This was no better than a dream of theirs; for they were not able to lie hid either from God or from the Romans. However, they depended on these under-ground subterfuges...

Almost everything can be found in the historical record.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Why did you leave off in that passage? Why not finish it so that it could be fully understood?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And where I go you know, and the way you know.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

What does it mean to "come to the Father?" Does it mean to go to heaven? Or does it mean the indwelling such as "salvation?"

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

I see indwelling being taught.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

I see a second coming.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. [SUP]20 [/SUP]At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Wait a minute, the world will "see (Him) no more but the disciples will? I thought the second coming was way off into the future, like two thousand or more years? Seems like Jesus is telling them that when He returns, on that day, Father, Son and the disciples will be as one. Does that mean that where He is, they will be also because they are one and there is indwelling? I don't see anything about Christ taking them alive to heaven.

Then we come to this great question. I was about to ask it myself.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

And what was His response?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

"We will come to him and make Our home with him?" Isn't this backwards AHW? I thought they were taking us alive back to heaven?? Sure doesn't sound like it, at least not right away.

Snoozy · Jul 23, 2017

i believe in pre-trib rapture bcuz why would Jesus pour wrath on his own body? this is a long article i gots lots of reading. I came here to talk about prophecy and sanctification.
Jesus wont let us down he will come for us before things get to da point where its da worst time ever on da planet.

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

VCO said:

In the Early days Paul was habited to going to the Synagogue in each town to teach, he still had many who knew his background as a strict Jew, and would have been welcomed to teach. I did a lenghty study of Paul's Missionary style, and the Church at Corinth, so a lot of these facts came out of that Study. Paul was Teaching in the Synagogue in Corinth, for several weeks, and probably was staying with a leader of the Synagogue. He may even have converted a couple of the main leaders of that Synagogue, and that, plus objecting to some of the things Paul was Teaching, drove them to order Paul out of Synagogue. Titius Justus, a Gentile Convert that Paul converted to Christianity, then offered Paul a room and the use of his house NEXT DOOR, as a place for the Church to worship until they could build a Church. I never did find when they built that Church or where in town it was located.

I was trying to locate where in Corinth the Synagogue was, and the house next door, which was where the original Church of Corinth was meeting, after Paul was asked to leave the Synagogue. I hoped to at least thereby pinpoint actually where they were located. I just found some additional information the gives us a possible (unconfirmed) Location:

QUOTE:

The Synagogue
When Paul first came to Corinth, he naturally sought out a synagogue, as was his custom, to begin his Christian evangelizing. Not far from the entrance structure (propylaea) to the forum/agora on the Lechaion Road, a lintel stone was found with crude lettering: "Synagogue of the Hebrews." Since stones were often scattered from their original location by later destruction and some were moved elsewhere to be used in new construction, it is by no means certain that the original synagogue was in this area. Furthermore, this lintel stone dates from three or more centuries after the time of Paul. However, the size of the stone suggests that it may not have been moved far from its original location, and new synagogues frequently were erected on the site of previous ones. Since we know Paul lived for a time in a house owned by a Gentile "worshiper of God, Titius Justus, which was adjacent to a synagogue, it is tempting to think of his residing somewhere in that vicinity. Corinth may have had more than one synagogue; Crispus and Sosthenes are both named in Acts as the "official" (archisynagogos) of a synagogue, but the relation between the two and the synagogue mentioned is unclear (Acts 18:8, 17).

Corinth Biblical Significance
End-QUOTE

If all the historians that I have been researching, are accurate, and that stone with "Synagogue of the Hebrews" written on it, remained where it fell, face down on the Lechaion Road, we have a MAJOR CLUE. Because it was face down, all these years no one thought it was a significant stone, just another one that fell in probably an earthquake. Therefore, we may have a logical location for the Original Church of Corinth. When you enter on the Lechaion Road from the north, the small house immediately on the left, just as you enter the Corinth City Center, is where the Church of Corinth probably was meeting. It fits the documentation, and therefore it is logically the House of Titius Justus, where Paul stayed for a time after they requested Paul to leave the Synagogue. It is the house that the line crosses pointing out the labeled Lechaion Road; making the building next door the Synagogue of the Hebrews. That is my best possible guess, but going on what little information I could find, it is very plausible. One of the Historians that I researched mentioned that at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, there were 50 - 150 members of the Church. So they would have been in the process of raising money to build a larger building for the Church at Corinth.

WOW, I think I have missed the OBVIOUS on this MAP. I just noticed that there are three Basilicas on this City Center Map. A Basilica was a building for Public Forum Meetings, such as the Political Town Hall Meetings of today. AND NOTICE there are THREE of them within a block or two of each other. I THINK IT IS LOGICAL, THAT THE REASON I WAS NEVER ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE CHURCH BUILDING IN CORINTH, IS THAT IT IS HIGHLY PROBABLE THAT THEY WERE LEASING ONE OF THE THREE BASILICA'S ON SUNDAYS FOR THEIR CHURCH MEETINGS. IN FACT, I AM COMFORTABLE WITH CONSIDERING THE CHURCH AT CORINTH AS FOUND, BUT (UNCONFIRMED).

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

Snoozy said:

Very good point.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath,
but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance,
I also will keep you from the hour of testing,
that hour which is about to come upon the whole world,
to test those who dwell on the earth.

Snoozy · Jul 23, 2017

PlainWord said:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

So now the last hope which supported the tyrants, and that crew of robbers who were with them, was in the caves and caverns under ground; whither, if they could once fly, they did not expect to be searched for; but endeavored, that after the whole city should be destroyed, and the Romans gone away, they might come out again, and escape from them. This was no better than a dream of theirs; for they were not able to lie hid either from God or from the Romans. However, they depended on these under-ground subterfuges...

Almost everything can be found in the historical record.

That red letters where is it from? this aint bible i can recognize easy. who are u quoting?

Sully · Jul 23, 2017

https://books.google.com/books?id=q...und; whither, if they could once fly,&f=false

Snoozy · Jul 23, 2017

PlainWord said:

u are teaching lies! the antichrist is future. he will be destroyed by Jesus at da second advent. u are quoting something thats not tha bible this book could be full of lies i dont trust it.
let me show you what will happen: in these times people get worse and worse and when its real bad Jesus will come to rapture the church which will cause the antichrist to be revealed and this evil man will make a deal with Israel to allow dem to rebuild da temple and resume sacrifices. the antichrist will bring the world together like neva before but then he will cause the daily sacrifices to cease.
dont take any rfid chips or anything in your body, there will be a mark of tha beast operating during this last week of daniels were u cant even buy gas or food without tha mark. Jesus will open the seals, the trumpets and vials will be poured out, wrath like the world has never seen before do you really think Jesus will pour this on his own body? after all this Jesus will return with us and destroy all of Israel's opponents and the antichrist. then he will create his millennial kindgom to fulfill the promises.

If u have more questions i can answer but i can say u are way off on bible prophecy, u need to do further studying uce.

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

J7 said:

THINK AGAIN:

Zephaniah 1:10-17 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "On that day," declares the LORD, "There will be the sound of a cry from the Fish Gate, A wail from the Second Quarter, And a loud crash from the hills.#1
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "Wail, O inhabitants of the Mortar, For all the people of Canaan will be silenced; All who weigh out silver will be cut off.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "It will come about at that time That I will search Jerusalem with lamps, #2 And I will punish the men Who are stagnant in spirit, Who say in their hearts, 'The LORD will not do good or evil!'
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Moreover, their wealth will become plunder And their houses desolate; #3 Yes, they will build houses but not inhabit them, And plant vineyards but not drink their wine."
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Near is the great day of the LORD, Near and coming very quickly; Listen, the day of the LORD! #4 In it the warrior cries out bitterly.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]A day of wrath is that day, A day of trouble and distress, A day of destruction and desolation, #5
A day of darkness and gloom, A day of clouds and thick darkness, #6
[SUP]16 [/SUP] A day of trumpet and battle cry Against the fortified cities And the high corner towers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] I will bring distress on men So that they will walk like the blind, Because they have sinned against the LORD; And their blood will be poured out like dust And their flesh like dung. #7

NOW compare that to ZECHARIAH 14

Zechariah 14:1-10 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, #3 the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. #5
[SUP]4 [/SUP] In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, {Second Coming} which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, #1 so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! #4
[SUP]6 [/SUP] In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. #2
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, #6 but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; #1 but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses.

Zechariah 14:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. #7
[SUP]13 [/SUP] It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.

There are 7 identical scenes being described in both those portions of Scripture, therefore they both are describing the SAME EVENT. However, what really rules OUT 70 AD, is the FACT that Zech 14 tells us CLEARLY in verse 4 that he is describing the SECOND COMING.

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

In my opinion the Rebellion is already happening, all you have to do is check out the Preterist's Theology.

Snoozy · Jul 23, 2017

VCO said:

i have had to google preterism and u are right its false teaching. turn from this. i hope Jesus takes u in the rapture to da Father's house even if u dont believe in it!

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

J7 said:

ARE YOU BLIND? That is why Paul is writing about it, to correct their erroneous thinking, pointing out that whoever started that RUMOR that Christ already returned invisibly are FALSE TEACHERS. In fact we have a couple here that are thinking just like those False Teachers of Paul's day.

VCO · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

in other word these verse tell us that faith protect us from hell. Nothing to do with end time wrath, or tribulation.

I believe 7 years tribulation when antichrist in power, he will persecute every body that not take mark of the beast. The persecution that come from antichrist is not a God wrath.

I do not know if some God wrath also happen during 7 years tribulation. It may, but God able to protect us from His wrath.

like God protect Noah, because Noah not the target of God wrath.

but some time God not physically protect Christian from persecutions.

Example, God not physically protect Stephen, when Paul and his geng kill him.

I believe the day of the Lord in 2 thesalonians 2. Pronoun of second coming and rapture

example : John, James, and Peter going to the market. They wear T shirt.

they in this sentence is pronoun for John, James and Peter. We do not need to repeat john, James and Peter in the second .
sentence

This is what happen in 2 thesalonians 2.

Paul said: concerning second coming and rapture ...........

the day day of the Lord ..........

so so the day of the Lord in this phrase is pronoun of second coming and rapture

Get Ginger for your iOS!Pronouns

What is a Pronoun?

In grammar, a pronoun is defined as a word or phrase that may be substituted for a noun or noun phrase, which once replaced, is known as the pronoun’s antecedent. How is this possible

You make some good points, but may I point out, GOD got Noah and his Family to a place of safety from the Biblical Flood, which the ARK was sufficient to do. In Revelation that WRATH is going to be poured out in the AIR all over this PLANET, therefore that Place of Safety has to be OFF THIS PLANET. I believe that literally will be in Heaven at the Wedding of the LAMB.

heartofdavid · Jul 23, 2017

Snoozy said:

At the last supper,jesus declared he was going to make homes for us,and he would sit with us at the supper in heaven,and drink wine.

Notice Jesus first miracle was at a wedding. Pointing to his wedding with his gentile bride in heaven.

Wedding has to do with intimacy. Only my wife is allowed to put her head on my breast and linger there.
The rapture will "cull" out the non intimate "fence sitters" as depicted in mat 25 the 10 virgin parable.

Yes,we do go in the rapture pre trib.

You will only see understanding and purpose in the doctrine of pretrib.
We own this arena. All other doctrines magnify this and that,but not Jesus and his bride,and heavens purpose for the GT.

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

VCO said:

may be, rapture happen before big wrath. Look like there will be some number of calamity.

The Rapture

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Sully

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

heartofdavid

Guest

Senior Member