About Judaizing

[graceNpeace]

I know it doesn't feel like it but every country has its own laws. The Greeks had their own set of laws that is why Paul had to appear in court. But the Greeks said that the dispute was regarding the Jew's law (Acts is clear about this) that is why the Jews tried to kill Paul. They bare false witness against him for not keeping their law.

Now I know you have no idea what you are talking about!
That court was NOT a 'greek' court!
It was a ROMAN court!

Lets fill you in on some real details.
There were no discrete countries at that time in the whole Mediterranean area.
All of it was under ROMAN rule - you do remember the ROMAN EMPIRE do you not?
Palestine was the ONLY province within the whole empire that had slightly different rules to the rest and that was only because the Jewish inhabitants were so unruly and recalcitrant.
The Sanhedrin was given limited powers by the Roman authorities, but they could not legally execute anyone, only the Romans had that authority.

As for the storyline of the last few chapters of Acts, the accusations made by the Jewish authorities against Paul were actually valid - he did break the law - simple as that.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

That's why you have me scratching my head a little bit.

Not sure why you revert back to your understanding and strength when you know before hand that you don't have what it takes....

Don't you trust that you are Gods Workmanship and not your own...?

Nobody in the Bible except for Jesus had what it takes, but yet the did fight the good fight.

David could not slain Goliath if he never went to the river to pick up the 5 stones. He took five but only needed one.

It is the same with us brother, we can't go into battle without even trying. We need to go to our river pick up our weapons and trust God that His grace will be sufficient.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Now I know you have no idea what you are talking about!
That court was NOT a 'greek' court!
It was a ROMAN court!

Lets fill you in on some real details.
There were no discrete countries at that time in the whole Mediterranean area.
All of it was under ROMAN rule - you do remember the ROMAN EMPIRE do you not?
Palestine was the ONLY province within the whole empire that had slightly different rules to the rest and that was only because the Jewish inhabitants were so unruly and recalcitrant.
The Sanhedrin was given limited powers by the Roman authorities, but they could not legally execute anyone, only the Romans had that authority.

As for the storyline of the last few chapters of Acts, the accusations made by the Jewish authorities against Paul were actually valid - he did break the law - simple as that.

Yes, yes of course Roman court. My apologies. I am busy answering between work . We are still working in South Africa, you know.

I will try to be a bit more on my game.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

As for the storyline of the last few chapters of Acts, the accusations made by the Jewish authorities against Paul were actually valid - he did break the law - simple as that.

So Paul lied when he said he kept the law?

You have an interesting interpretation of the Bible.

 

[graceNpeace]

So Paul lied when he said he kept the law?

You have an interesting interpretation of the Bible.

No, he gave a potted biography of his life, both before and after he had his Damascus road experience.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

No, he gave a potted biography of his life, both before and after he had his Damascus road experience.

When I read Paul's account I see the present tense.

Maybe we can ask a Greek scholar to tell us if was present or past tense...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Act 28:17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jewstogether: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men andbrethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of ourfathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of theRomans.

 

[pete9]

When considering the history of the last 2000 years, I find it amazing how this Judaical movement has popped out of nowhere so quickly (in the age of Zionism?), and how many on the internet are pushing its tenets.. The hallmark appears to be the rather psychologically manipulating notion of "Do as Jesus did, be Judaic! And if you won't, you're not following Jesus!". Basically an accusation that a Christian isn't Christian unless they are Judaic. It is very insidious.

 

[JaumeJ]

When reading the New Testament, we are taught we have become fellow heirs with Israel (not with Jes they they are included in Israel.)

We are taught we will wee New Jerusaleem coming down from God..

We are taught we are to adhere to the same Gospel as was received by Abraham long before the law was given to Moses.

We are taught, by Jesus, that we are made sons of Abraham, and we have the faith of Abraham.

We are taught from the beginning of Christ's teaching the same as He taught the Jews to whom He spoke first and saved fidrst.

Jesus was a Jew by blood of Israel, but He was not a follower of their newly created denominations and doctrines, no, He came
to refresh the mamore of what is taught in the law and the prophets about Him and about our faith.

There can be nothing insidious in learning from Jesus christ, but there is something Satanic in drawing people who believe Jesus Christ from His teaching by clubbing them over the head with doctrines He does not teach.


Again we are taught the same Gospel as was given Abraham. Abraham, the man who first foresaw God providing a Lamb as a sacrifice for sin.

When considering the history of the last 2000 years, I find it amazing how this Judaical movement has popped out of nowhere so quickly (in the age of Zionism?), and how many on the internet are pushing its tenets.. The hallmark appears to be the rather psychologically manipulating notion of "Do as Jesus did, be Judaic! And if you won't, you're not following Jesus!". Basically an accusation that a Christian isn't Christian unless they are Judaic. It is very insidious.

 

[JaumeJ]

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Now how is it Paul refers to the true Jew as being one whose praise is of God, and who is not circumcised externally rather he is circumcised in the heart?

Is this Judaizing? I think not, but it does say what a true Jew is. My next question is why do peple today balk at the notion that all who come to believe and praise God are true Jews? I speak of the translation of Jew of course being a praiser of Yahweh or of God if that hurts your gentiles mins.

You minds should be just as Jewish as was that of Jesus Christ,but nope, you cannot because you will not.

 

[oldethennew]

When considering the history of the last 2000 years, I find it amazing how this Judaical movement has popped out of nowhere so quickly (in the age of Zionism?), and how many on the internet are pushing its tenets.. The hallmark appears to be the rather psychologically manipulating notion of "Do as Jesus did, be Judaic! And if you won't, you're not following Jesus!". Basically an accusation that a Christian isn't Christian unless they are Judaic. It is very insidious.

==========================================================

when one receives a 'new-heart', or is truly seeking change through their Creator and His Ways,
I don't believe this could possibly be considered insidious,
quite the contrary...

 

[Grandpa]

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Now how is it Paul refers to the true Jew as being one whose praise is of God, and who is not circumcised externally rather he is circumcised in the heart?

Is this Judaizing? I think not, but it does say what a true Jew is. My next question is why do peple today balk at the notion that all who come to believe and praise God are true Jews? I speak of the translation of Jew of course being a praiser of Yahweh or of God if that hurts your gentiles mins.

You minds should be just as Jewish as was that of Jesus Christ,but nope, you cannot because you will not.

You people keep missing the key points.

He is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY...

But he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY...

Just a different way of saying The Letter Kills (carnal following of the law), but the Spirit gives Life (By faith in Christ).

 

[JaumeJ]

Who is "you peopl?" Have you ever read me posting we must do as did the people of JUdah at teh time before Christ?

Have I ever posted that we must wear a yamarlki or tzit-tzit?

Have you heard me teach people should learn from rabbis and not from Jesus Christ?

I do ask that all be obedient to God, Jesus.

I also continuously ask that peole learn directly from Him for He has invited all to do so.

I have posted the law is established by faith, quoting Paul. Do you understand this teaching? It means when we receive the "gift" of faith we understand the law and how it is to be treated. We learn this from Jesus Christ.

Some of you say if we love we complete all of the law, but this love claimed by these folks does not seem to give two hoots about lerning from Jesus Christ Who is Love, so what kind of hogwash are these folks trying to sell?

When God, Himself, wrote the Ten Commandments on stone, and later prophesied through His prophets that the law would be written on our hearts in our inward parts, does that not witness to the reality that with it in our hearts we too are witnesses that the law is good? If you say no to this or that it is being "Jewish" on the outside, I am afraid you are terribly misguided by whomever has taught you anything at all.

It is the Holy Spirit Wo witnesses to all obedient children to remain so. I hat to ev en bring up the name of who encourges disobedience.

You people keep missing the key points.

He is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY...

But he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY...

Just a different way of saying The Letter Kills (carnal following of the law), but the Spirit gives Life (By faith in Christ).

 

[Grandpa]

Who is "you peopl?" Have you ever read me posting we must do as did the people of JUdah at teh time before Christ?

Have I ever posted that we must wear a yamarlki or tzit-tzit?

Have you heard me teach people should learn from rabbis and not from Jesus Christ?

I do ask that all be obedient to God, Jesus.

I also continuously ask that peole learn directly from Him for He has invited all to do so.

I have posted the law is established by faith, quoting Paul. Do you understand this teaching? It means when we receive the "gift" of faith we understand the law and how it is to be treated. We learn this from Jesus Christ.

Some of you say if we love we complete all of the law, but this love claimed by these folks does not seem to give two hoots about lerning from Jesus Christ Who is Love, so what kind of hogwash are these folks trying to sell?

When God, Himself, wrote the Ten Commandments on stone, and later prophesied through His prophets that the law would be written on our hearts in our inward parts, does that not witness to the reality that with it in our hearts we too are witnesses that the law is good? If you say no to this or that it is being "Jewish" on the outside, I am afraid you are terribly misguided by whomever has taught you anything at all.

It is the Holy Spirit Wo witnesses to all obedient children to remain so. I hat to ev en bring up the name of who encourges disobedience.

I suppose Judaizing is being hopelessly entangled in the yoke of bondage.

Everything comes back to the law for you. Even faith, ironically. You equate it all with the law.

Romans 7:4-6
[FONT=&quot]4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is Christianity 101.

Galatians 2:19-21
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

How is it that you don't understand this? Did you spend to much time trying to be Jewish?[/FONT]

 

[JaumeJ]

Why to you respond as though you have read my post?

I suppose Judaizing is being hopelessly entangled in the yoke of bondage.

Everything comes back to the law for you. Even faith, ironically. You equate it all with the law.

Romans 7:4-6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is Christianity 101.

Galatians 2:19-21

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Hebrews 7:18-19

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

How is it that you don't understand this? Did you spend to much time trying to be Jewish?

 

[loveme1]

2 Timothy 2


[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][h=1]2 Timothy 2King James Version (KJV)[/h]2 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.




[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[oldethennew]

the real ones who are 'entangled' are those who refuse to 'obey' their Creator and
choose to obey themselves/the world instead...

the real 'entangled, are actually teaching 'dis-obedience'...

lots of prayer going-out here...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

How is it that you don't understand this? Did you spend to much time trying to be Jewish?

This will be an interesting conversation for you to have if we were Jewish because the Jews will not even read the New Testament

A few years ago a rabbi and an catholic priest were invited to a local television station to debate if Jesus Christ was born from a virgin. Now the catholic priest was armed with verses from the New Testament and Isaiah 7:14 and while he had the floor he was passionate about all the New Testament verses. The Jewish rabbi did not say anything and when it was his turn to speak he just said to the priest I don't believe in your New Testament so lets discuss the Old Testament. The priest was floored because had no come backs and argument for argument, verse for verse the rabbi had the upper hand. You see one thing the Jews are good at is knowledge, but they lack Jesus. We have Jesus but we lack knowledge.

Will you brother Grandpa be able to discuss Jesus with somebody not believing in the New Testament? You see the guy that are so miss quoted on many platforms did it. Paul kept the law and he could argue with the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah from the Old Testament. I wonder how many of Paul's followers will be able to the same today?

God bless friends

 

[JaumeJ]

I recall when the two disciples were on the road and the risen Jesus appeared to them. He rehearsed to them the entire Tanakh, that is the law and the prophets indicating just how Jesus fulfilled all that was written about Him. There was no New Testament written yet, but there is more than sufficient about our Yeshua to prove His mission accomplised in the Old Testament.

The Messianics had nothing more than the Tanakg writings for a century. I know the believers went from being of the faith of Abraham to being Christians during this period. This is a meditation for all who seek truth.

This will be an interesting conversation for you to have if we were Jewish because the Jews will not even read the New Testament

A few years ago a rabbi and an catholic priest were invited to a local television station to debate if Jesus Christ was born from a virgin. Now the catholic priest was armed with verses from the New Testament and Isaiah 7:14 and while he had the floor he was passionate about all the New Testament verses. The Jewish rabbi did not say anything and when it was his turn to speak he just said to the priest I don't believe in your New Testament so lets discuss the Old Testament. The priest was floored because had no come backs and argument for argument, verse for verse the rabbi had the upper hand. You see one thing the Jews are good at is knowledge, but they lack Jesus. We have Jesus but we lack knowledge.

Will you brother Grandpa be able to discuss Jesus with somebody not believing in the New Testament? You see the guy that are so miss quoted on many platforms did it. Paul kept the law and he could argue with the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah from the Old Testament. I wonder how many of Paul's followers will be able to the same today?

God bless friends

 

[graceNpeace]

When I read Paul's account I see the present tense.

Maybe we can ask a Greek scholar to tell us if was present or past tense...

Actually a common trait at the time was to write and speak history (past tense) in the present tense to give the prose or speech more immediacy.