Not By Works

[terry_newyork_usa]

We thank God for grace. We're saved by grace through faith, not of works. But ... a faith that does not have corresponding works is a dead faith. We're not saved by works. Works are the fruit, not the root. But an absence of corresponding works of faithfulness and obedience indicates a dead, inoperative faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

We create works BECAUSE we are continuing in the righteousness we received when we first believed

Abiding in Christ is characterized by a life of ever increasing holiness. If you do not have that life, yet you claim to be in Christ, John says you are a liar. The person who does not have a characteristically righteous life was either never born again to begin with, or they stopped believing somewhere along the line. Either way, works are the evidence of whether or not you really became a new person in salvation when you confessed Christ and whether you are continuing to be a new person by the Holy Spirit in a continuing salvation.

People who don't have the walk, even just a little, to match the talk have a faith that can not save them on the Day of Judgment. They either never had that faith, or they lost it somewhere along the line:

"3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4 NASB)

"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14 NASB)

Church, stop letting the church give you false comfort in a works-less salvation. Do what the Bible says. Make your calling and election sure--start acting like what you say you are. If you can't do that, then be born again for real this time.

That is nonsense.

And we don't still be a new creation by what we do or don't do. We are created in righteousness and holiness because we are one spirit with the Lord.

Do you still be a human by what you do or don't do? Do you still be a son to your father because of what you do or don't do?

It amazes me that the gospel is so messed up with this works-based religion that nullifies the very grace of God that is needed to walk free in this life. I am amazed at the unbelief that the church has in what Christ has done and the reason is that they have been fed a steady diet of this religious nonsense.

And what are His commandments? John tells us exactly what they are in the New Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Apostasy without repentance leads to destruction. Hebrews 10:38-39: My righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[Grace777x70]

We create works BECAUSE we are continuing in the righteousness we received when we first believed

Abiding in Christ is characterized by a life of ever increasing holiness. If you do not have that life, yet you claim to be in Christ, John says you are a liar. The person who does not have a characteristically righteous life was either never born again to begin with, or they stopped believing somewhere along the line. Either way, works are the evidence of whether or not you really became a new person in salvation when you confessed Christ and whether you are continuing to be a new person by the Holy Spirit in a continuing salvation.

People who don't have the walk, even just a little, to match the talk have a faith that can not save them on the Day of Judgment. They either never had that faith, or they lost it somewhere along the line:

"3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4 NASB)

"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14 NASB)

Church, stop letting the church give you false comfort in a works-less salvation. Do what the Bible says. Make your calling and election sure--start acting like what you say you are. If you can't do that, then be born again for real this time.

And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and "faith righteousness" for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get."

In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".

I have posted this at least 20x times in the past and many others have said the exact same thing in many ways but I'll do it once more so that you can have it as a record again and hopefully show what is really being said.

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ -will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.


The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and ofthe gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.



When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.

That is true faith righteousness which if fed this truth will produce "deeds of righteousness" done by His life manifesting in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our father and Lord have for them.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

So you would agree that faith without works is dead?

 

[tourist]

So you would agree that faith without works is dead?

I would agree with that statement also because that's what is written in the bible.

 

[Grace777x70]

So you would agree that faith without works is dead?

Amen..

I definitely agree with it - especially in the context James spoke about it concerning helping out his fellow brother that is in need - and I gave an example of faith with works when we hear the gospel message of Christ - we believe and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

i think the biggest divide i have been seeing is people saying salvation
REQUIRES works when its more like faith that isnt dead produces works

This post disappeared, and shall remain anonymous

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Amen..

I definitely agree with it - especially in the context James spoke about it concerning helping out his fellow brother that is in need - and I gave an example of faith with works when we hear the gospel message of Christ - we believe and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30 - "sealed" - a sign of ownership, was written to a certain group of people meeting a certain condition, that condition seen in Ephesians 1:1 - To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Those who stay faithful to end - stay sealed to the end.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 4:30 - "sealed" - a sign of ownership, was written to a certain group of people meeting a certain condition, that condition seen in Ephesians 1:1 - To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Those who stay faithful to end - stay sealed to the end.

Paul was not writing to dead people. The word translated “saint” in the New Testament, hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. https://www.gotquestions.org/sinners-saints.html

 

[Grace777x70]

Ephesians 4:30 - "sealed" - a sign of ownership, was written to a certain group of people meeting a certain condition, that condition seen in Ephesians 1:1 - To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Those who stay faithful to end - stay sealed to the end.

Paul calls them saints and faithful because they are one spirit with Christ. It is a description of who they are because of Christ in them.

What you are trying to do is "back-load" the gospel and make it into "works saves us again".

Paul is saying to those that "heard" the gospel message and believed that they are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it was not cheap - it cost our Lord His life and blood to obtain eternal redemption. Heb. 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past that stays in effect.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Is Jesus a liar? He said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

If Jesus lied to us about that and about the truth that everyone who comes to Him - He will not cast out - can we really trust Him? I say Jesus is NOT a liar and that He can be trusted.

 

[Stephen63]

I'm breaking my rule for not interacting with known slanders in the body of Christ to refute this completely foul lie.

Show where this is a quote from some site. I typed that out by myself and it is not in any website that I have seen or I would have gave the link to it.

How can you say that you are a minister of God and lie like that so openly? My goodness how much more ungodly in your behavior can one get? In your religion your Father if you really are a Christian born from above - would send you to hell.

You should be thanking God for the gospel of the grace of God if you have believed in Christ when you heard the message of Him.

This is one of the reasons why people reject Christ - they are not really rejecting Him - they are rejecting what us so-called Christians are portraying as God.

This is the last I am going to respond to your lies, malice and bitterness and leave you in the hands of the Lord. I will pray for you that the Lord will grant you repentance and that you see the beauty, love and grace of our father and Lord really ahs for you and for all people.

I would like to say G777 is right. I thought it would be on the internet, because he uses internet sites a great deal. I was wrong.

But, since I searched to no end to find it on the internet, I made a discovery..... G777's teaching about a "one time corresponding action" requirement of Abraham & Rhahab yielded no results at all.

Zilch.

Nada.

Which DOES prove one point..... G777 made it up. It's still a fabricated lie.

Another point..... he went to no end to use the malice he claims others do, & rather bluntly, I might add.

Which continues to prove that He's not the mild-mannered person he portrays himself to be.

You really jumped on this one, didn't you?

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Grace777: Is eternal life conditional on staying faithful to Christ?

 

[AKAP]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You are quoting within Titus 3:3-7 in particular 3:5
Just a thought, many times in scripture words are translated or have a meaning intented to be purposely the opposite in thought. For example, the word' righteous' in the NT came mean self-righteous if the subject or audience is not of God or following God. This translated word righteous was used against the Pharisees and it meant of their self righteousness (Matt 5:20) and here in Titus 3:5.
Notice that these deeds in this verse were of the past tense before receiving salvation.
So, this verse you sighted really means self-righteous works. For if it truly meant righteous works the verse would make no sense. Self-righteous works are like rags in the eyes of God as we have read (Isa 64:6). Never righteous ones.
First comes salvation and then after must come righteous works that reveal the authenticity of the presence spirit of truth within us. Faith is even counted as righteousness ( work of our will and God) (Romans 4:5). Then these righteous works are seen as the fruits of the spirit. They are not man-centered but spirit of God centered after we have th ehope of the resurrection.
Righteous works are thus the result of receiving salvation and thus these two functions are inextricably connected together. Cannot be undone.

In Christ, Always

 

[maverich]

faith without works , try this on for size

My faith has to be based on something seen or sensed, or learned,

I.E. if my wife becomes distant andd no matter what I try, nothing is getting better. My faith in her will begin to diminish. Now look at Jesus, he doesn'tt do something then I can't have faith in him

You might say that the bible guides us to faith, but after all is said in done, i might believe in my head, but not in my heart. No one comes to Jesus less he is drawn. Jesus works in my life and my faith in him gets ever strrronger
till one day i wake up and realize I need him every moment

How about Grace and Love, If I don't believe he loves me, then any gift i receive will be suspect.

How about faith without love. Again, if he doesn't show his Love, then will i truly in my heart have faith that he will be there when i need him.

thank Jesus that because of a spear, the Love letter of the Lord was opened and pours out his Love continually,

to many people, as i did for years look at the bible searching for a catch, why would anyone die for me. truly back a few years I wouldn't have given my life for anyone. I hope now that i am loved i would be more willing.

Read the bible as a book of love, and not as a contract. He didn't die for you to be good HE DIED BECAUSE HE IS GOOD

 

[Stephen63]

There is in fact a glaringly obvious, classic, INDISPUTABLE example of just that. A ONE TIME EVENT DISPLAYING FAITH THAT RESULTED IN SALVATION.

Our brother and friend, Mr. thief on the cross.

Maybe you should apologize to your brother Bruce. It would do ALL of our hearts good to see you FOR ONCE, humble yourself.

Mr. thief on the cross believed when he realized, & believed till he died.

NO ONE can judge how many times he exercised his faith before he died, because scripture doesn't say.

Saying Mr. thief on the cross believed only one time is like saying there was only three wise men who visited baby Jesus.

Maybe you should apologize to everyone on the BDF for not studying your Bible. It would do ALL of our hearts good to see you FOR ONCE, humble yourself.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace777: Is eternal life conditional on staying faithful to Christ?

Eternal life is based on Christ and what He has done. No amount of works will make one righteous enough to be with God.

Is Jesus a liar? He said that they Holy Spirit with in you forever just like Paul did. John 14:16

I believe this concerning some of those that seemingly left by not going to church. Some were not born-again to begin with. I'll let God decide that as Jesus said that the tares will be with the wheat and the goats will be separated from the sheep.

But sheep always remain sheep and they don't turn into a goat if they don't sin nor back into a sheep again if they don't do some sort of sin for awhile.

This whole lose your salvation doctrine which to me is a complete denial of the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection is what has caused a lot of sincere believers to leave the established church..

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious "sinless perfection in the flesh" Christian life that was being preached to them by some people.

They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

The Lord is bringing His beloved back to Him. Let's not have the judgmental works-based older brother who doesn't know the heart and true nature of the Father to meet them at the door of our churches instead of having the Father meet them.

I believe in preaching the love and grace of God in Christ so that believers will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ.

We need to build the firm foundation in Him first before we bring on the warning scriptures because we can speak of them in the wrong light and if we are not built on the foundation of Christ Himself and His finished work on the cross - it can cause us to become ship-wrecked.

Speaking the warning scriptures to those with that firm foundation in Christ is needed and they should be heeded and then they become a blessing to us and keep us centered on Christ and His life and not on the flesh with it's deceitfulness.

Walk by the flesh in this life and we will bring destruction of some sort in all our lives - from living a homosexual lifestyle to outbursts of anger, to malice, to envy, to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are all in the same lists together.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God so that we can grow up in Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Paul was not writing to dead people. The word translated “saint” in the New Testament, hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. https://www.gotquestions.org/sinners-saints.html

I love this verse Mark 12
26And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.”

 

[JIMBO43]

We thank God for grace. We're saved by grace through faith, not of works. But ... a faith that does not have corresponding works is a dead faith. We're not saved by works. Works are the fruit, not the root. But an absence of corresponding works of faithfulness and obedience indicates a dead, inoperative faith.

whos were saved and how do you no someone sitting behind there typewriter who you cant see are saved ? (are you a physic...)..

How do you know some people are not living with an alterior motive.. a selfish ambishion..


I think its quite sad when people after 10000 pages cant come to an agreement...


especially when No one on earth who is living has recieved there salvation of meeting loved ones they once knew who are resting in peace..


That it in a nutshell YOU MIGHT BE SAVED WHICH IS A TYPE OF SALVATION BUT YOU ME EVERYONE LIVING AND BREATHING WHO HAVE LOST LOVED ONES HAVE NOT RECIEVED THERE REWARD OF BEING REAQUAINTED WHICH IS THE DAY OF SALVATION FOR ALL..............


when you understand this you may even start to understand the bible ..................god bless

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

There are no one-time events, quoted or implied in the Bible. It doesn't exist. G777 quotes that from a hypergrace site, which is against the rules.

I'm breaking my rule for not interacting with known slanders in the body of Christ to refute this completely foul lie.

Show where this is a quote from some site. I typed that out by myself and it is not in any website that I have seen or I would have gave the link to it.

So, the truth came out that it is indeed slander and not true,. This is the very reason to not interact with these types because we know the purpose of it and as Paul says to "mark them and avoid them" Rom. 16: 17

We pray for them and ask the Father to reveal the beauty , love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ to them.

If we were in a proper church setting - the true leadership would have dealt with this behavior - but we are not, so we must do what Paul says to stay away from interacting with them as nothing good comes from it.

Unfortunately until there is repentance which only God can grant - we need to not interact with these types of people that continue to exhibit deceitfulness and cause divisions by. 1 Cor. 15:33 and Hebrews 12:15 can happen to any of us.

In the meantime we will let them slander and be deceitful all they want because we can't stop them but I will not be responding to this behavior anymore. The Lord is our defense and He has all of our backs.

Guard your heart brethren!

All is well. The Lord will be faithful to all of us! We have a great salvation in Him.