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Romans 11
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
We are all grafted in through belief by GOD.
The New Covenant was through the Messiah.
You do not have the right to tell people to rip the Old Testament from their Bible....
All those things were given and came to pass for the Messiah to come with the New Covenant for all who believe to be reconciled with Heavenly Father.
If you are Jewish and say you believe but go about working the law of Moses that was fulfilled through the Messiah then you are not living by Faith.
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
We are all grafted in through belief by GOD.
The New Covenant was through the Messiah.
You do not have the right to tell people to rip the Old Testament from their Bible....
All those things were given and came to pass for the Messiah to come with the New Covenant for all who believe to be reconciled with Heavenly Father.
If you are Jewish and say you believe but go about working the law of Moses that was fulfilled through the Messiah then you are not living by Faith.
The way I use the scrolls in my study is a way to check on the accuracy of the history books I read. I look at an authors credentials to see where he gets his information from. When he has a history that includes study with these scrolls I feel confident about his history.
One person I rely on is Tom Bradford. He spent eight years in Jerusalem studying. He keeps a low personal profile while he teaches from a commentary of scripture incorporating Old Testament, New Testament, Jewish culture, History, and what must be a photographic memory. Many people find his insight of scripture life changing.
One person I rely on is Tom Bradford. He spent eight years in Jerusalem studying. He keeps a low personal profile while he teaches from a commentary of scripture incorporating Old Testament, New Testament, Jewish culture, History, and what must be a photographic memory. Many people find his insight of scripture life changing.
Why can you not not accept the New Testament? We start at Genesis and read through the Old Testament into the New Testament.
John said:
luke 3
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
It is neither the Jew or Jerusalem but the Most High GOD you seek through the Messiah's words...
Marvel at the Creator who will bring New Jerusalem down from the Heavens..... Worship Heavenly Father in Spirit and Truth.
It is written: The righteous shall live by Faith.
Could it not be that people are attempting to mix the Old and New wine? Thus not living by Faith?
The Messiah gave the New wine to whom he chose so that it be preserved and those of the Old can receive it
In due course... Through belief.
Abraham by Faith received the promise....
knowing that Heavenly Father said he would make a New Covenant where His law would be upon our hearts by
Believing The Messiah's Testimony and how he offered Himself without sin for our Forgiveness and being able to reconcile...
us with our Loving Father of lights.. I say to those seeking out knowledge through the Hebrews... The Greatest Hebrew came in to the world and gives freely to those that ask.... Follow the Good Shepherd He is Faithful and True.
Circumcise yourselves outwardly it will profit you nothing inwardly.
Truly receive the New Covenant of GOD through Faith.
Much time past and deception be rife...
How can any of us know that we are by flesh a Jew or not? It matters not because it is carnal and belief is Spiritual and Salvation is come to all that believe.
There is only one truth and both of us feel we have studied scripture so we know that truth. One of us is wrong I sure hope it isn't me.
I think the disagreement within the churches originated when the Christian Jews lost control of the church and gentile Christians with pagan roots took over.
I think that if you would make a study of Eph. 2 it will clear up any misunderstanding about the relationship of God the Father, God the son, shedding blood for our sins, grace, and who grants the grace leading to forgiveness.
I think the disagreement within the churches originated when the Christian Jews lost control of the church and gentile Christians with pagan roots took over.
I think that if you would make a study of Eph. 2 it will clear up any misunderstanding about the relationship of God the Father, God the son, shedding blood for our sins, grace, and who grants the grace leading to forgiveness.
Paul told us that it wasn't what we do that the Lord gave the Jews t9 help them obey such a not eating anything that eats garbage to help them not put garbage in their minds, and to be circumcised in the flesh for all the things it was symbolic of. We are to be guided to those things by the Holy Spirit, instead.
I feel certain that the Lord allows the Jews to be orthodox Jews, but they are not to allow obeying rules of their culture to be an excuse for not obeying the Lord's guidance. By rules of their culture I mean the fleshly rules.
These are things I think the Lord wants us to know through scripture and the Holy Spirit, but they are not anything to judge you or anyone else by. How could we learn and discuss if we were just busy judging others. When you disagree it makes me think and question myself----and go to scripture.
I feel certain that the Lord allows the Jews to be orthodox Jews, but they are not to allow obeying rules of their culture to be an excuse for not obeying the Lord's guidance. By rules of their culture I mean the fleshly rules.
These are things I think the Lord wants us to know through scripture and the Holy Spirit, but they are not anything to judge you or anyone else by. How could we learn and discuss if we were just busy judging others. When you disagree it makes me think and question myself----and go to scripture.
I'm not judging you... I fear you are trying to revive the dead husband... I hope you will live by Faith in the Messiah.
You use commentary and seem fascinated with Jews... but everything came to pass to bring the Messiah in to the world for salvation of man... so yes they are beloved.. but we have the New and better Testament from GOD.
Remember that it was all GOD's doing.... GOD chose a people to bring forth His promise and now we can all be one through our Lord and Saviour with Heavenly Father.
The Words of our Lord and Saviour are to eternal life if we hear and do.. set your heart on this and abide In a loving obedience.
K
Hi Blik, I've read a few of your posts and relate to a lot of what you say. I'm just looking for the truth, don't have all the answers. ...yet.
Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision
Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
Lord bless and keep you sister.~k
Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
Lord bless and keep you sister.~k
Hi Blik, I've read a few of your posts and relate to a lot of what you say. I'm just looking for the truth, don't have all the answers. ...yet. Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision
Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
Lord bless and keep you sister.~k
Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
Lord bless and keep you sister.~k
An obedient heart circumcised through Faith will be the most enlightening.
When the inward is made New of an incorruptible seed you will not need these writings.
Christ died on the cross so we can go to Him with repentance for our sins and be forgiven, but there are so many more things God has for us. That is only the beginning of the blessings.
You seem to be afraid of learning more of the Lord. We are to listen to the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit uses what we put in our minds of the word. It is through the word that the Holy Spirit can guide us. We are to use and understand all of scripture, not only about our salvation. That is to be one part of what we learn.
I agree we are not to learn people's opinions, but there are ones who have a store of knowledge about the word and also history. Giving us the deep sea scrolls to open up ancient language and customs was what God has done to help us. We know that we need help with understanding Shakespeare, it is also true of scripture. The men who put down God's thoughts used the language they knew.
When I find someone who has years devoted to scripture study and not study of doctrines of a church I learn from him, but only about scripture. The ministers of the church I prefer have years devoted to study of scripture.
God used the Jews all through scripture. Even in the NT that was written in Greek, God used men who were orthodox Jews or were brought up in the Jewish culture. We are to let God take care of judging them about accepting Christ. There is much we can learn from them. We are told in simple clear language what are attitudes toward them is to be. Christians are to be guided by the instructions we find in scripture.
You seem to be afraid of learning more of the Lord. We are to listen to the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit uses what we put in our minds of the word. It is through the word that the Holy Spirit can guide us. We are to use and understand all of scripture, not only about our salvation. That is to be one part of what we learn.
I agree we are not to learn people's opinions, but there are ones who have a store of knowledge about the word and also history. Giving us the deep sea scrolls to open up ancient language and customs was what God has done to help us. We know that we need help with understanding Shakespeare, it is also true of scripture. The men who put down God's thoughts used the language they knew.
When I find someone who has years devoted to scripture study and not study of doctrines of a church I learn from him, but only about scripture. The ministers of the church I prefer have years devoted to study of scripture.
God used the Jews all through scripture. Even in the NT that was written in Greek, God used men who were orthodox Jews or were brought up in the Jewish culture. We are to let God take care of judging them about accepting Christ. There is much we can learn from them. We are told in simple clear language what are attitudes toward them is to be. Christians are to be guided by the instructions we find in scripture.
Hi Blik, I've read a few of your posts and relate to a lot of what you say. I'm just looking for the truth, don't have all the answers. ...yet. Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision
Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
Here is a link Spiritual Meaning of Circumcision Author: E. Swedenborg (1688-1772). Perhaps you may find it useful? I found it very enlightening, and he used scripture to make his points which is always best. I do believe we are to distinguish between the clean and unclean, physically and spiritually. We all get a choice, right?
As Paul Zacharias, a Swedenborgian minister, observes in his pamphlet This We Believe, "Everyone who lives up to the best he knows, whether Christian, Jew, Moslem, or Pagan, is truly a member of the church Invisible."
It is a blessing to have a true Christian to discuss scripture with, I do thank you.
But what I find to direct me on my walk is so much different from how you tell me is right. What if the Bereans said I will not listen to anything new? The Pharisees believed what the rabbis told them, why? The deep sea scrolls are mostly ancient writings of scripture, sort of hidden in plain sight for 2,000years. Do they have a message God wants us to hear?
I think we as people the Lord has given salvation and belonging to Him need to answer these questions in light of scripture, we need outside reading to know enough about them to answer them and many more questions.
But what I find to direct me on my walk is so much different from how you tell me is right. What if the Bereans said I will not listen to anything new? The Pharisees believed what the rabbis told them, why? The deep sea scrolls are mostly ancient writings of scripture, sort of hidden in plain sight for 2,000years. Do they have a message God wants us to hear?
I think we as people the Lord has given salvation and belonging to Him need to answer these questions in light of scripture, we need outside reading to know enough about them to answer them and many more questions.