Not By Works

Grace777x70 · Jul 28, 2017

I do totally dis-agree with you in the context of how you are saying it. Transformation is passive and yet we participate in it too as I have often said.

The lie from hell is from those that say we can change ourselves. It is a part of the original lie from the garden - wanting to be like God but independent of God's life doing the "living".

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The true way of transformation in Christ is by "beholding" the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. When we see the glory of the Lord we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.

"Transformed" is in the passive mood which mean the Holy Spirit changes us to reveal the life of Christ that is in us outwardly so that others can see Christ. We participate with the Spirit of God within us in this.

This "putting on of Christ" is paramount in order for others to see the real Christ that is in us. This being transformed is seen as renewing the mind to the truth of Christ and all that He has done. Romans 12:2

We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13

As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.

But we can agree to dis-agree and leave it in the hands of the Lord.

At least we don't slander each other and are malice-filled because we believe differently in some areas. We will be in heaven together because of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you Jesus!...

JIMBO43 · Jul 28, 2017

Meggido said:

some christians believe that repenting is not a works but an automatic love for God an automatic conviction from the spirit that leads you to be saddened and it is out of your love For God that you repent..

Its still a works of the fruit that lies with in tho.. this is all im saying..

If one does not bare theese fruits they have given up there faith for a life of sin...they have not kept there faith...

However peter denied God as did Judas as did Jonah... God did saved Jonah... I like to think peter was still saved...

Did Judas repent befor he hung himself ?

Did God/ Jesus save jonah ?

So im not saying those who deny God will be condemmed to hell unlike some have here..

works are a sure sign you are saved and repenting is also something that keeps you saved...no repentance = a heart that has Gone ino rebellion gone of the rails. no longer believe in God..

become an athiests and changed the words in the bible opened up your own church and allowed gay marriage all to prove that bible is lieing or you know your right or you know theres no God.. And this is happenning right for real in the modern world we live in..

So the moral here is not me pushing works get you salvation..... NO NO NO/. The message from me is works keep you saved which is a type of salvation but not the final salvation....

This is sooooooooooo important when the bible mentions saved it doesnt mean just one perception of the meaning of saved...

There are hundreds of perceptions of saved..

1 saved from drowing..

2 saved for a moment...

saved up your money..

saved somebody from the clutches of evil...

saved until the day of redemption..

Saved for ever more...

now salvation....

you salvaged something from the local scrap yard and made it good...

my only salvation are my chochalates..

salvation came my way one day but i ignored it...

you are to wait patiently for your salvation where by you may recieve saving grace every day..

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Nah..,,preachers are judged by their words more than their works..,though I guess you could make a case that their words build up (or tear down) their work of discipleship, exhortation, etc.

I still think God fills up our gas tank, but we decide where we want to drive...towards Him or off a cliff.

(duck and weave.,,lol)

BillG · Jul 28, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Its interesting about Jesus saying "Keep my commandments"
When I was leading a church community group I actually spent nine months with the group going through the commandments of Jesus, those over and above the 2 new commandments he gave (which to me sums up the 10 commandments).

When I researched how many were there (using Mr Google) there was between 32 to 50.

I did 40. I left a couple out. The main one about adultery. Reason being I had a couple who met each other as a result of adultery who got married and were now new Crhristians.

My list was

Love God
Love others
Obey
The only work
Repent
Be born again
Beware or false prophets
Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves
Be perfect
Dont throw pearls to pigs
Let your light shine
Be reconciled
Do this in remebrance of me
Fear him who can kill the soul
Take up your cross daily
Follow me
Beware of leaven
Keep your word
Do not judge
Forgiveness (over 3 sessions)
Do to others
Dont worry
Store up treasures
Seek first
Rejoice when persecuted for righteousness sake
Do good to those who hate you
Bring in the poor/crippled/lame and blind
Take my yolk
Give to Caesar
Go the extra mile
Ask seek and knock
Dont despise little ones
Secret prayer
Be disciples, go to the nations, baptise and teach them my commands
Be salt
Love your enemies

It was very fascinating getting behind the scenes of the commandments and how it related culturally, in a way the audience would understand it.

I came to conclusion that all of the above encompassed the two new commandments that Jesus gave.

Matthew 22:37-40

37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

BillG said:

Yes Yes Yes.

We have many injured brethren that need our help.

What does the church do? It shoots its wounded.
Gossip, slander, buck up or ship out, don't do this, you lack faith, do penance and the list could go on.

We are all called to love each other and build each other up.
Restore each other in love, reprove if need by with the word of God.

We are meant to love those not in the church as well.

Why on earth want to be part of the church when the church can't even love itself.

With regard to the wounded and injured we need to get alongside, get behind the scenes.
We have no idea what is going on behind the heart of a person.
Until we are willing to do so, we such back off and not judge.

We need spiritual doctors and nurses and we need them quick.

Triage until the Holy spirit shows up.

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

Meggido said:

Yep..it's important to keep your heresies straight...,

JIMBO43 · Jul 28, 2017

BillG said:

are you sure your not a pastor ? or a church leader ? .... im still confused with you ?..

all this

My list was

Love God
Love others
Obey
The only work
Repent
Be born again
Beware or false prophets
Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves
Be perfect
Dont throw pearls to pigs
Let your light shine
Be reconciled
Do this in remebrance of me
Fear him who can kill the soul
Take up your cross daily
Follow me
Beware of leaven
Keep your word
Do not judge
Forgiveness (over 3 sessions)
Do to others
Dont worry
Store up treasures
Seek first
Rejoice when persecuted for righteousness sake
Do good to those who hate you
Bring in the poor/crippled/lame and blind
Take my yolk
Give to Caesar
Go the extra mile
Ask seek and knock
Dont despise little ones
Secret prayer
Be disciples, go to the nations, baptise and teach them my commands
Be salt
Love your enemies

This is just as much as a law giving as the old testement ... are you sure works dont lead to salvation ?

BillG · Jul 28, 2017

Meggido said:

Whats NAR?
I know what WOF is, it's a dog with a woof impediment

BillG · Jul 28, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

are you sure your not a pastor ? or a church leader ? .... im still confused with you ?..

all this

My list was

Love God
Love others
Obey
The only work
Repent
Be born again
Beware or false prophets
Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves
Be perfect
Dont throw pearls to pigs
Let your light shine
Be reconciled
Do this in remebrance of me
Fear him who can kill the soul
Take up your cross daily
Follow me
Beware of leaven
Keep your word
Do not judge
Forgiveness (over 3 sessions)
Do to others
Dont worry
Store up treasures
Seek first
Rejoice when persecuted for righteousness sake
Do good to those who hate you
Bring in the poor/crippled/lame and blind
Take my yolk
Give to Caesar
Go the extra mile
Ask seek and knock
Dont despise little ones
Secret prayer
Be disciples, go to the nations, baptise and teach them my commands
Be salt
Love your enemies

This is just as much as a law giving as the old testement ... are you sure works dont lead to salvation ?

Whats confusing you?

Grace777x70 · Jul 28, 2017

We live by faith - stop believing in the promises of God in any area of truth and we will not experience the things that are ours in Christ while we are in this earthen vessel.

For example - we have the peace of Christ in us because we are in the kingdom.

If we choose to worry about things then His peace will not manifest because we are believing in the natural things over what God has said that He would meet all of our needs - according to His riches in Christ Jesus. Everything is in Christ.

God doesn't necessarily give us "things" - He gives us Christ Himself and in Him are already all things we need for life and godliness.

Does God throw us into hell now because we don't experience His peace which is ours in Christ for those that believe His promises? Of course not. It's a bunch of religious nonsense from the enemy that has darkened our minds so that the light of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work will be nullified in our lives.

dcontroversal · Jul 28, 2017

FranC said:

Right there....works based self reliance......

Jesus eternally seals you and saves you to his KINGDOM.......Ephesians....TRANSPOSED into the Kingdom of His dear SON.....

Jesus begins our faith
Jesus finishes our faith
Jesus completes the good work he began
Jesus saves eternally

There is no such thing as ONE keeping themselves IN the KINGDOM.......a son by birth will always be a son by birth we are BORN from above by incorruptible seed!

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

Meggido said:

Bruce, many here believe once they are saved that is is it and everything else is a "passive" work of Christ....

Jesus and the Bible never teach he only passively works in you....this is the very reason why discipleship is maligned and marginalized and why you and others suggest a tree does not not have to produce fruit....

This is because the current you describe the light bulb needs is not Jesus, it is the Holy Spirit...someone I think even the OSAS crowd has marginalized down to a .49 stamp....

The deception that the Passive work of Christ is all you need to mature in Christ is a lie from hell... I am sorry if you disagree....

Ole Joe Prince said last night on his program that he was teaching a few things wrong...he said the passive work of Christ is not needed now, because my friend, I never saw this before, but we are made perfect in spirit, soul and body by the blood....and never have to confess our sins any more...passive work means you are not made perfect and puts Christ back on the cross...second, tongues will heal you and make you look,act and be younger than your age...if you pray in tongues and take communion your physical healing is manifested instantly....

Passive work alone is a deception....

God's stillness is found in the eye of a hurricane.

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

BillG said:

A cat with a purr impediment...it goes narrr instead.

Sully · Jul 28, 2017

Maybe it's so hard for some to believe that they have complete forgiveness of sins in the eyes of God is because they may not want someone else to have complete forgiveness...the psychology fits.

Meggido · Jul 28, 2017

BillG said:

New Apostolic Reformation movement....latter rain, dominion movement, revivalists...etc

Meggido · Jul 28, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I do totally dis-agree with you in the context of how you are saying it. Transformation is passive and yet we participate in it too as I have often said.

The lie from hell is from those that say we can change ourselves. It is a part of the original lie from the garden - wanting to be like God but independent of God's life doing the "living".

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The true way of transformation in Christ is by "beholding" the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. When we see the glory of the Lord we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.

"Transformed" is in the passive mood which mean the Holy Spirit changes us to reveal the life of Christ that is in us outwardly so that others can see Christ. We participate with the Spirit of God within us in this.

This "putting on of Christ" is paramount in order for others to see the real Christ that is in us. This being transformed is seen as renewing the mind to the truth of Christ and all that He has done. Romans 12:2

We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13

As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.

But we can agree to dis-agree and leave it in the hands of the Lord.

At least we don't slander each other and are malice-filled because we believe differently in some areas. We will be in heaven together because of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you Jesus!...

Transformation of Spirit is instant and eternal....

Ariel82 · Jul 28, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Yes., I am sure that works don't lead to salvation.

What you listed is the Law. The Law leads one to Christ because it shows you how you fall short and need God's forgiveness and grace.

Afterwards God reveals how the Law was placed upon us to keep us safe from worldly and spiritual harm in this world.

However God does miracles by walking on water and moving mountains. He can show us how to overcome sin and the Law of death through Christ.

JIMBO43 · Jul 28, 2017

Ariel82 said:

there is an order to the trinity... to just throw out blanklet statements without telling us what you mean is just covering..... and you should repent....

God does things in am orderly fashion and no doubt he is a God of order not chaos... there is to much chaos in this world This not from God...

Jesus was under the law of the holy spirit.... there is such a thing as wranking to amongst the angels they had more entrusted powers than each other...

Im saying the holy spirit is the final blessing i belive tho the final reward is not given until the end...

this is what your not understanding.....but being saved is as good as salvation but not the complete salvation.... which you could walk away from and open a church and encourage everyone to believe a lie and sin right in front of the face of God in one of his prayer houses...

Cee · Jul 28, 2017

RE: New Testament vs Old Testament God

Yes, He is the same God, but we are in a different covenant.

John 8:33They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

P.S. Yes, Jesus is talking about sin here. Whoever practices sin is a slave to sin, whoever practices righteousness is a slave to righteousness.

Yes we abide in Him, yes we are pruned by His word (spoken word, through living relationship), but this is our joy because we are His children.

P.P.S. Abiding in Christ is believing He did a good work in you and He is faithful to complete it.

Are you abiding?

Believe you're a son and believe because you are a son you will and do the works of your Father.

You might say, well I'm just a sinner still, well that's why you're still struggling with your freedom. Because the slave is not free, but the son. Because when the Son sets you free you will be free indeed.

You might say, well Jesus said we had to follow His commandments. And you're right. We do. But Jesus also says that He empowers us to do so. He transforms us, changes us, and conforms us by the renewing of our mind.

God is looking for those who follow Him with a cheerful heart. Not to receive salvation, but out of a thankful heart that they did receive salvation. And a faith that He will and does empower them to be His witness.

Here is the commandment of Jesus, love one another as He has loved us.

Ephesians 4:31- Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

The way Christ lived for us is how we are to live for one another. This is the example of the Son for God's children. This is the commandments of Jesus.

Feel free to look up the following Scriptures:
- Be merciful as He is merciful
- Be perfect as He is perfect
- Be holy as He is holy
- Love one another as He has loved you
- Forgive one another as He has forgiven you
- Be generous as He is generous
- Follow after my pattern as I imitate Christ
- Those who have been forgiven much, love much

It's a continual cause and effect. Jesus is this toward us, therefore we are this toward one another.

JIMBO43 · Jul 28, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Yes., I am sure that works don't lead to salvation.

What you listed is the Law. The Law leads one to Christ because it shows you how you fall short and need God's forgiveness and grace.

Afterwards God reveals how the Law was placed upon us to keep us safe from worldly and spiritual harm in this world.

However God does miracles by walking on water and moving mountains. He can show us how to overcome sin and the Law of death through Christ.

i never asked you please but out thankyou

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