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Hi friends,
I don't know the acronyms very well or what others are teaching or their controversies associated with them. But for me many years ago. I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.
What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.
It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.
Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus everyday. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in my as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.
A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
I don't know the acronyms very well or what others are teaching or their controversies associated with them. But for me many years ago. I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.
What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.
It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.
Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus everyday. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in my as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.
A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
I believe we are not perfect, we are sinner, and need Jesus to pay our sin
in other hand Jesus Said If a branch not bear fruit, It Will be Cut of and send to fire/hell
I believe not perfect not always mean not bear fruit. If we do not believe Jesus et all or refused Holy Spirit to direct our life. Than It is different story.
I have a friend, he was raised AS Methodist. Now he refused to ask Holy spirit in to his heart.
He say there was politic going oN in heaven. Lucifer attemp to cup God.
He say, I do not want other drive my car. Invite Jesus to your heart is like ask other to drive your car, and you not decide
the direction. This man want to decide the direction. For Him follow Jesus mean losing his freedom
exactly opposit what we believe. Follow Jesus mean free from the bonded of sin. He is unaware that not letting Jesus direct our lives mean letting devil make direction, is not a freedom, It is hell.
in other hand Jesus Said If a branch not bear fruit, It Will be Cut of and send to fire/hell
I believe not perfect not always mean not bear fruit. If we do not believe Jesus et all or refused Holy Spirit to direct our life. Than It is different story.
I have a friend, he was raised AS Methodist. Now he refused to ask Holy spirit in to his heart.
He say there was politic going oN in heaven. Lucifer attemp to cup God.
He say, I do not want other drive my car. Invite Jesus to your heart is like ask other to drive your car, and you not decide
the direction. This man want to decide the direction. For Him follow Jesus mean losing his freedom
exactly opposit what we believe. Follow Jesus mean free from the bonded of sin. He is unaware that not letting Jesus direct our lives mean letting devil make direction, is not a freedom, It is hell.
A
Baby Christians
9Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
9Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
P
Your problem was not that you were non-OSAS. Your problem was that you thought non-OSAS meant you lost your salvation because of sinning. That thinking will certainly lead you into a life of bondage.
The true, scriptural meaning of non-OSAS is that you can lose your salvation if you fall into willful unbelief. The sinning part just comes along for the ride when you stop trusting in Christ, just as the 'not sinning' part comes along for the ride when you believe.
The true, scriptural meaning of non-OSAS is that you can lose your salvation if you fall into willful unbelief. The sinning part just comes along for the ride when you stop trusting in Christ, just as the 'not sinning' part comes along for the ride when you believe.
P
Sounds good, but it's misleading. I put this in what Paul calls a 'fine sounding argument', but which is false.
If salvation were entirely up to us then, yes, we would indeed lose our salvation. If fact, if John M. had thought it through, if salvation were entirely up to us we wouldn't even get saved in the first place. We would not seek him, we would not have anything to do with him whatsoever.
It is only by God's grace that certain soils (people's hearts) will have what they need provided to them to flourish in belief and trust in Christ. It's only by God's grace that the potential of the good soil is realized. That hardly means the soil had nothing to do with it whatsoever. It simply means God graciously tills, and waters, and seeds, and weeds the garden of the heart that can't do all of that by itself.
God gives us the faith to then trust and believe, but the believing part is still our responsibility. God doesn't do our believing for us. He coaches it and nurtures it, but at the end of the day he does not do that trusting for us. We are responsible for that part. And it is the person who stops trusting in the blood of Christ who then can lose the salvation that trusting secures.
If salvation were entirely up to us then, yes, we would indeed lose our salvation. If fact, if John M. had thought it through, if salvation were entirely up to us we wouldn't even get saved in the first place. We would not seek him, we would not have anything to do with him whatsoever.
It is only by God's grace that certain soils (people's hearts) will have what they need provided to them to flourish in belief and trust in Christ. It's only by God's grace that the potential of the good soil is realized. That hardly means the soil had nothing to do with it whatsoever. It simply means God graciously tills, and waters, and seeds, and weeds the garden of the heart that can't do all of that by itself.
God gives us the faith to then trust and believe, but the believing part is still our responsibility. God doesn't do our believing for us. He coaches it and nurtures it, but at the end of the day he does not do that trusting for us. We are responsible for that part. And it is the person who stops trusting in the blood of Christ who then can lose the salvation that trusting secures.
P
Yes, once and for all. In context that means you do not have to make more sacrifices and ordain new priests in this New Covenant. The 'one time, for all time, for all people' Sacrifice and Priest will always be ministering before the altar in heaven for you so that you do not need to come back with another sacrifice for new sins you've committed like you had to under the old covenant.
But so many people think 'once and for all' means there's nothing that can reverse what began when you first believed, oblivious to the fact that what it actually means is you do not need to make additional sacrifices for additional sin. 'Once for all' does not preclude the necessity to keep believing in the 'One time for all' sacrifice presently ministering in heaven for those who trust in it. And that's not new, additional believing. It's the continuation of your believing you started the moment you confessed Christ as your savior.
Yep, the devil can never take away what you hold fast to through faith in Christ. Only YOU can decide to stop trusting in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin. You don't even need the devil's help to do that, but you do need Christ's help to keep believing. If it were entirely up to you to keep believing you would indeed be lost already. But as it is he is the author and finisher of your faith, not you. Which means He is the power for us to keep believing....if we want to keep believing.
That's exactly right. We MUST consider the entire context of scripture to see that we can indeed lose our salvation if we stop believing.
The promises are for those who BELIEVE. Not for those who don't believe, either because they stopped believing, or because they never believed to begin with. You have eternal life (Jesus Christ) if you believe. If you stop believing you no longer possess the life that is abundant and eternal--Jesus Christ. You are cut out of Christ.
The question of OSAS comes down to a single question: Can believers stop believing? That's the only valid question there is about OSAS, because the Bible makes it abundantly clear what will happen if you do stop believing, so that's not in dispute. Are the warnings to not stop believing sufficient to keep each and every believer believing to the very end as required? IOW, is falling into unbelief only hypothetical? Were the Galatians never really in danger of falling away from justification in Christ, or was it always true all along that all God had to do was warn them not to fall away and they would then not fall away? Answer that question and you have answered the question of OSAS.
But so many people think 'once and for all' means there's nothing that can reverse what began when you first believed, oblivious to the fact that what it actually means is you do not need to make additional sacrifices for additional sin. 'Once for all' does not preclude the necessity to keep believing in the 'One time for all' sacrifice presently ministering in heaven for those who trust in it. And that's not new, additional believing. It's the continuation of your believing you started the moment you confessed Christ as your savior.
Yep, the devil can never take away what you hold fast to through faith in Christ. Only YOU can decide to stop trusting in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin. You don't even need the devil's help to do that, but you do need Christ's help to keep believing. If it were entirely up to you to keep believing you would indeed be lost already. But as it is he is the author and finisher of your faith, not you. Which means He is the power for us to keep believing....if we want to keep believing.
That's exactly right. We MUST consider the entire context of scripture to see that we can indeed lose our salvation if we stop believing.
The promises are for those who BELIEVE. Not for those who don't believe, either because they stopped believing, or because they never believed to begin with. You have eternal life (Jesus Christ) if you believe. If you stop believing you no longer possess the life that is abundant and eternal--Jesus Christ. You are cut out of Christ.
The question of OSAS comes down to a single question: Can believers stop believing? That's the only valid question there is about OSAS, because the Bible makes it abundantly clear what will happen if you do stop believing, so that's not in dispute. Are the warnings to not stop believing sufficient to keep each and every believer believing to the very end as required? IOW, is falling into unbelief only hypothetical? Were the Galatians never really in danger of falling away from justification in Christ, or was it always true all along that all God had to do was warn them not to fall away and they would then not fall away? Answer that question and you have answered the question of OSAS.
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P
What if Jesus turned out to be a liar? Because He did say that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever in John 14:16. Jesus also said that no man can pluck us out of His hand nor the Father's hand.
Jesus did say that He will never leave nor forsake us - never!
Jesus did say that all that came to Him - He will in no wise cast out.
That would ruin everything in this salvation business wouldn't it if Jesus turned out to be a liar?
Ahhh...but I do not believe that Jesus is a liar. We are called believers for a reason...
Jesus did say that He will never leave nor forsake us - never!
Jesus did say that all that came to Him - He will in no wise cast out.
That would ruin everything in this salvation business wouldn't it if Jesus turned out to be a liar?
Ahhh...but I do not believe that Jesus is a liar. We are called believers for a reason...
Just because a believer stops trusting in Christ doesn't make Jesus' promises false. Those promises were conditioned on believing all along.
So what happens if we no longer believe?
Let's think about the above statement.
This implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?
We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17
At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.
If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ.
It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.
Those that say that must not understand the new creation in Christ nor do they understand the spiritual circumcision of Christ where the body of flesh is "cut away" from the inner man that is one spirit with the Lord.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16 He is NOT a liar.
Can any Christian that is with the Lord now choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.
No, - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Can a person by believing "in their mind" un-born themselves from being a human? Can a person because of a sick mind that is un-renewed to the truth have "unbelief" that they are the son of their father?
Of course not. Peter said - we are born from above - from incorruptible seed - the word of God which is Christ Himself - which abides forever.
P
The context is clear: The Hebrews the author is speaking to are saved. So, if they fall away from Christ as payment for their sin and go back to the law for justification the questions are, "were they never 'really' saved to begin with (the author says they were), or "do unbelievers get to keep the eternal life (Jesus Christ) they do not trust in?"
Either question is ridiculous, but those are the choices you have if you are OSAS. But if you know that OSAS is not true then you have the only reasonable answer there is for these saved Hebrews returning to their unbelief: They lose the justification they once had in Christ.
And the question is not even if they lose the justification they had. The real question is, "is it possible for a true believer to return to his unbelief?" That's the real question, because we know that, obviously, the person who does not believe does not have what only belief in Christ secures.
Either question is ridiculous, but those are the choices you have if you are OSAS. But if you know that OSAS is not true then you have the only reasonable answer there is for these saved Hebrews returning to their unbelief: They lose the justification they once had in Christ.
And the question is not even if they lose the justification they had. The real question is, "is it possible for a true believer to return to his unbelief?" That's the real question, because we know that, obviously, the person who does not believe does not have what only belief in Christ secures.
