Losing Salvation ?!

[Gabriel2020]

There was no law at that time to condemn Adam and Eve. Where there is no law ,sin is imputed, meaning not counted against them. But God fixed that and made sure not one from the old world would escape from their sins. When Jesus died on the cross, those three days and nights were spent in hell preaching to all of the old world . even those that had the law of moses., and could not keep it. They only had to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that he died for the sins of everyone. He said that he is the Lord of the living and the dead.

 

[MattforJesus]

Honestly I don't know with certainly. However, there's no reason to think that a single action by Adam or Eve made them lose their salvation. Genesis doesn't suggest that their salvation was tied to their obedience or The Garden of Eden.

It would seem like Adam and Eve eating off the tree would not cause them to not be able to correct that if they wanted,and be right again with God by repenting of it,for sin is sin.

God has commandments that are spiritual,moral laws,and laws of love,but if we violate we can be forgiven,so Adam and Eve could of been forgiven too.

Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

God clothed Adam and Eve with coats of skins from animals.Did God do the first sacrifice in the process,and cover Adam and Eve's sin?

I believe Adam and Eve could of been forgiven.But obedience is tied to salvation,which bring every thought in to captivity to the obedience of Christ,and to obey is better than sacrifice.

 

[Jackson123]

...But the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.
Romans 6:23

for those WHO do the Will of the Father.

 

[Grace777x70]

The book of Hebrews was written to Jews showing the better covenant, the better High Priest, the better sacrifice of Christ. It was written before the destruction of the temple in 70AD and thus that ended the temple animal sacrifices for good.

In the meetings there would have been both believing Jews in the Messiah and others that did not. The same as there are in churches today. Jesus said there would be tares in with the wheat.

If we don't look at the book of Hebrews in the light of who is the author talking to - then we can get into a mess and distort the gospel of the grace of God.

The book of Hebrews addresses Israel in the transitional generation of both Jewish believers and Jewish unbelievers alike before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

That is why the author spends so much time talking about Jewish "things" from the law and comparing them to Christ Himself and all that He has done. A Gentile knows nothing of the law of Moses and this book was not directly addressed to them.

We can all learn from all scripture but some scripture is written to unbelievers and some to believers. Both would be in the places where the letter would be read. All scripture is written "for" us but not all scripture is written "to" us.

Don't take someone else's medicine.

Audience relevance is paramount in determining the interpretation of a passage.

Reject the one time sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ which is willfully sinning talked about in Hebrews 10:26 and there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[J0Hnnatcc3]

for those WHO do the Will of the Father.

Those who have the free gift, will do the will of the father. Also Jackson, what you posted doesn't follow Romans 6:23.

I gotta get some rest, God bless J.

God bless all y'all too. Night.

 

[Jackson123]

It would seem like Adam and Eve eating off the tree would not cause them to not be able to correct that if they wanted,and be right again with God by repenting of it,for sin is sin.

God has commandments that are spiritual,moral laws,and laws of love,but if we violate we can be forgiven,so Adam and Eve could of been forgiven too.

Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

God clothed Adam and Eve with coats of skins from animals.Did God do the first sacrifice in the process,and cover Adam and Eve's sin?

I believe Adam and Eve could of been forgiven.But obedience is tied to salvation,which bring every thought in to captivity to the obedience of Christ,and to obey is better than sacrifice.

yep I am agree, relate to the topic is one can lose his salvation?

 

[AbigailZeke]

On the contrary i've found those who don't follow OSAS, walk in more obedience to the lord and reflect holy lives. The danger of teaching OSAS to a new believer is they will take it as im saved any way so i dont have to be as obedient. But again people can believe in what they desire

I, politely, disagree. Speaking for myself, I know my source. I strongly preached against OSAS a couple years ago.

As an ex non-OSAS believer, I did reflect a holy life. I was a good kid, alpha female, overachiever, I got everything going. But the Lord knows what I did and did not do, who I was and who I wasn't, when it was just me and Him. Every time there was an altar call, I was there. I've rededicated my life a hundred times. Because I knew who I was on the inside. And I was bad.

You can't say I failed at being non-OSAS because how can you fail at that, really?

You just have to do right and if you happen to mess up, you confess and repent. Easy.

The problem becomes apparent when you get tired of doing the same thing over and over, because it only means you're stuck somewhere. Personally, I questioned the kind of God I was serving. He's hot and He's cold. Couldn't make up His mind. And He depended on my freaking ability (or inability) to confess. Can you see how shaky this foundation is?

You can choose to stay stuck and pretend it's all part of your suffering, or you can accept Jesus' death as His payment for all your sins.

Choose life.

 

[Grace777x70]

There was no law at that time to condemn Adam and Eve. Where there is no law ,sin is imputed, meaning not counted against them. But God fixed that and made sure not one from the old world would escape from their sins. When Jesus died on the cross, those three days and nights were spent in hell preaching to all of the old world . even those that had the law of moses., and could not keep it. They only had to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that he died for the sins of everyone. He said that he is the Lord of the living and the dead.

That's right. There was no law in the garden. That's why the serpent didn't tell Eve to murder Adam - that would have ended the human race like he wanted.

The law of Moses is actually the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which they ate from and thus brought corruption to the world and a conscience was given.

Romans 2 talks about this law being in the heart of the gentiles and that the Jews were given the Law which heightened the effects of the tree in their minds. Their conscience either approves and accuses them based on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

We were never meant to eat from that tree. That is for God. we are to eat from the tree of life which is Christ Himself now.

 

[Jackson123]

Those who have the free gift, will do the will of the father. Also Jackson, what you posted doesn't follow Romans 6:23.

I gotta get some rest, God bless J.

God bless all y'all too. Night.

I combine with Matt 7

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven

 

[Denadii]

That's right. There was no law in the garden. That's why the serpent didn't tell Eve to murder Adam - that would have ended the human race like he wanted.

The law of Moses is actually the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which they ate from and thus brought corruption to the world and a conscience was given.

Romans 2 talks about this law being in the heart of the gentiles and that the Jews were given the Law which heightened the effects of the tree in their minds. Their conscience either approves and accuses them based on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

We were never meant to eat from that tree. That is for God. we are to eat from the tree of life which is Christ Himself now.

All the time Adam and Eve were in the garden there was a war being waged in the heavenlies, and these two didn't even know about it...Then when Satan conned Eve and Adam chose to eat the fruit of the tree all hell burst in on them, and they knew evil. And the curse that follows it.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Like i said before, they broke no law of God, so they were not guilty of anything. If God had punished them for what they had done, Adam might have asked why. They were the first and had no idea what was happening to them, except eating from that tree brought about a change in their lives. Instead of punishing them, he cursed their livelihood . made life really hard for them. they knew of no law.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 6:17-20 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath,

[SUP]18[/SUP] so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

[SUP]20 [/SUP] where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Now because of Jesus - we can all sing this song to our Father.


[video=youtube;pGe6ABM1tU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGe6ABM1tU0[/video]

 

[Cee]

I am similar.

I was as legalistic as they come.

I drove 43 or 68 miles per hour (on cruise control) because I figured out going down hill on the freeway would add 2 mph and I didn't want to ever go a mile over the speed limit of 45 or 68 mph. I used to drive people crazy when they would follow me places or I would follow them. I also used to tell people how much of a sinner they were, I saw God as black and white in everything. My heart wasn't always right in my judgments either because I didn't know my own freedom. So I thought everyone needed to live legalistic like me.

I read book after book about the Bible. I thought my holiness was found in my Scripture understanding. But I didn't know God as a God of love. I didn't really like people, I had a few "hidden" sins. And my life overall was very hypocritical.

It wasn't until He started teaching me from His Holy Spirit that I started to an encounter God as love and freedom.

My life now is completely different, I love people more, I talk to people about Jesus all the time, I pray for the sick. I pray daily and see God's hand in so many areas of my life. And none of it is burdensome. He has set me free.

I, politely, disagree. Speaking for myself, I know my source. I strongly preached against OSAS a couple years ago.

As an ex non-OSAS believer, I did reflect a holy life. I was a good kid, alpha female, overachiever, I got everything going. But the Lord knows what I did and did not do, who I was and who I wasn't, when it was just me and Him. Every time there was an altar call, I was there. I've rededicated my life a hundred times. Because I knew who I was on the inside. And I was bad.

You can't say I failed at being non-OSAS because how can you fail at that, really?

You just have to do right and if you happen to mess up, you confess and repent. Easy.

The problem becomes apparent when you get tired of doing the same thing over and over, because it only means you're stuck somewhere. Personally, I questioned the kind of God I was serving. He's hot and He's cold. Couldn't make up His mind. And He depended on my freaking ability (or inability) to confess. Can you see how shaky this foundation is?

You can choose to stay stuck and pretend it's all part of your suffering, or you can accept Jesus' death as His payment for all your sins.

Choose life.

 

[Denadii]

I am similar.

I was as legalistic as they come.

I drove 43 miles per hour (on cruise control) because I figured out going down hill on the freeway would add 2 hrs and I didn't want to ever go a mile over the speed limit. I used to tell people how much of a sinner they were, I saw God as black and white in everything.

I read book after book about the Bible. I thought my holiness was found in my Scripture understanding. But I didn't know God as a God of love. I didn't really like people, I had a few "hidden" sins. And my life overall was very hypocritical.

It wasn't until He started teaching me from His Holy Spirit that I started to an encounter God as love and freedom.

My life now is completely different, I love people more, I talk to people about Jesus all the time, I pray for the sick. I pray daily and see God's hand in so many areas of my life. And none of it is burdensome. He has set me free.

And they overcame him by the Blood of the lamb and the Word in their testimony..

 

[AbigailZeke]

I am similar.

I was as legalistic as they come.

I drove 43 or 68 miles per hour (on cruise control) because I figured out going down hill on the freeway would add 2 mph and I didn't want to ever go a mile over the speed limit of 45 or 68 mph. I used to drive people crazy when they would follow me places or I would follow them. I also used to tell people how much of a sinner they were, I saw God as black and white in everything. My heart wasn't always right in my judgments either because I didn't know my own freedom. So I thought everyone needed to live legalistic like me.

I read book after book about the Bible. I thought my holiness was found in my Scripture understanding. But I didn't know God as a God of love. I didn't really like people, I had a few "hidden" sins. And my life overall was very hypocritical.

It wasn't until He started teaching me from His Holy Spirit that I started to an encounter God as love and freedom.

My life now is completely different, I love people more, I talk to people about Jesus all the time, I pray for the sick. I pray daily and see God's hand in so many areas of my life. And none of it is burdensome. He has set me free.

Amen and amen! I understand exactly what you're talking about. Like when we try to do things right, we expected other people to do the same. Because we thought God was black and white. I often fought with my mother about this. I'd get mad at her for very petty things and it was because I thought she was supposed to act better because we were both serving God. Because she's a Christian and she's supposed to 'work out' her salvation. You know? It didn't help that the church I went to loved to scare people to altar call. Lol.

Then, the cycle went on, I hated people for being hypocritical. And I ended up hating myself for hating people. It's a terrible thing, this doctrine of self-righteousness. Man can never do it on his own.

But thank the Lord! Oh thank the Lord He opened our eyes. His grace really is amazing.

 

[Cee]

Yes exactly!

I saw people how I believed He saw me. And because I believed He was continually looking to judge me for sin. I did the same to other people. It wasn't long before my friends didn't like my holier than thou approach lol. I also used to get up for altar call after altar call. I probably got "saved" so many times, I was like okay this is the real, real one! I truly am going to believe I'm saved now. And it just went on and on. I struggled with worry, panic, anxiety, and depression. It wasn't super fun. Lol.

I knew all the doctrine Scriptures for why I believed people could lose their salvation. And telling people they needed to be holy actually made me feel a little more holy. "I'll show those unbelieversssss" Bam! Hit em with a conditional salvation Scripture! Bam! Hit em with a holiness Scripture! Oh yeahhhh.

God had enough of my hypocritical ways though and brought me kicking and screaming into true righteousness in my life. Thank you Jesus for not letting me stay so focused on sin that I didn't focus on Him!

Amen and amen! I understand exactly what you're talking about. Like when we try to do things right, we expected other people to do the same. Because we thought God was black and white. I often fought with my mother about this. I'd get mad at her for very petty things and it was because I thought she was supposed to act better because we were both serving God. Because she's a Christian and she's supposed to 'work out' her salvation. You know? It didn't help that the church I went to loved to scare people to altar call. Lol.

Then, the cycle went on, I hated people for being hypocritical. And I ended up hating myself for hating people. It's a terrible thing, this doctrine of self-righteousness. Man can never do it on his own.

But thank the Lord! Oh thank the Lord He opened our eyes. His grace really is amazing.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Yes exactly!

I saw people how I believed He saw me. And because I believed He was continually looking to judge me for sin. I did the same to other people. It wasn't long before my friends didn't like my holier than thou approach lol. I also used to get up for altar call after altar call. I probably got "saved" so many times, I was like okay this is the real, real one! I truly am going to believe I'm saved now. And it just went on and on. I struggled with worry, panic, anxiety, and depression. It wasn't super fun. Lol.

I knew all the doctrine Scriptures for why I believed people could lose their salvation. And telling people they needed to be holy actually made me feel a little more holy. "I'll show those unbelieversssss" Bam! Hit em with a conditional salvation Scripture! Bam! Hit em with a holiness Scripture! Oh yeahhhh.

God had enough of my hypocritical ways though and brought me kicking and screaming into true righteousness in my life. Thank you Jesus for not letting me stay so focused on sin that I didn't focus on Him!

Haha same here. I once had my mother read some OSAS threads here in BDF before we were set free and we'd shake our heads and discuss how 'blind' people were. It made us feel holy.

The only times I read my bible with interest was when I was arguing with someone against OSAS and hyper-grace. And I didn't understand the new testament, so I skipped the overly Spiritual stuff and tried to find practical verses to fire at the unbelievers.

Jesus is very patient, I must say. Really, really patient.

I imagine all that guilt and condemnation led to all our struggles. I went through a period of depression too and shut people out. Really terrible times. And there are still many others going through it today.

But I'm so glad I'm saved, and saved forever. My mom and I would fight like almost every other day. But for more than a year now, I'd never had a single argument with her. We can't even find anything to bicker about. It's a miracle only Jesus can make.

 

[Cee]

I love hearing your testimony! And I can relate in so many ways. Thank you for sharing it!!

Haha same here. I once had my mother read some OSAS threads here in BDF before we were set free and we'd shake our heads and discuss how 'blind' people were. It made us feel holy.

The only times I read my bible with interest was when I was arguing with someone against OSAS and hyper-grace. And I didn't understand the new testament, so I skipped the overly Spiritual stuff and tried to find practical verses to fire at the unbelievers.

Jesus is very patient, I must say. Really, really patient.

I imagine all that guilt and condemnation led to all our struggles. I went through a period of depression too and shut people out. Really terrible times. And there are still many others going through it today.

But I'm so glad I'm saved, and saved forever. My mom and I would fight like almost every other day. But for more than a year now, I'd never had a single argument with her. We can't even find anything to bicker about. It's a miracle only Jesus can make.

 

[lastofall]

all. The point of losing salvation is that the person that departs from the faith was never really in the faith, otherwise they would have continued in it (1 John 2:19); knowing the sum of the matter is what Christ said, that "he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13), and so we may know that the true believer is the one that endures to the end in submitting to and relying upon god and His Word. This does not mean that he will not sin, nay rather he may fall several times, but because he is sincere toward God, he shall rise right back up into his sincere submission to God: contrariwise it is the insincere, the wicked who are the ones that fall into mischief. (Proverbs 24:16)

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello lastofall,

The point of losing salvation is that the person that departs from the faith was never really in the faith,

According to scripture, I personally don't believe that. I believe that there are and will be true believers who will turn from the faith. I believe that all promises of salvation and eternal life are contingent upon continuing in faith: Consider the following:

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice in the scripture above that the one is referred to as a faithful servant and if he is wicked by saying "my master is staying away a long time" and he turns from his faith and goes back to living according to the sinful nature, he is a servant who has stopped having faith, but it doesn't infer that he was never a legitimate servant, just one who wandered away from grace. The same is true in regards to what James says:

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In the scripture above, James addresses them as brothers/believers. If they should wander from the truth, which again would be to willfully go back into living according to the sinful nature and another believer should bring them back to a state of faith, then they will have saved that person from death and covered over a multitude of sins, which would mean in that wandered state that prospective wanderer would be on his way to death in that state of unfaithfulness and will have be accumulating sins while in that state. Consider the following:

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

A branch that does not remain in Christ, would be one who has wander from Christ. In that state a believer cannot bear fruit and the process of being transformed into the image of Christ, comes to a halt. That does not mean that they were never branches. Consider the following as well:

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

I believe that a believer has eternal security IF they continue going from faith to faith. If a believer turns away from Christ and goes back into the world, living according to the sinful nature, that person is in danger of condemning judgment. Otherwise if OSAS, then why all of the warnings to abstain from the sinful nature and living according to the way you did before you came to Christ.

I don't think that it is a correct conclusion to just say, "oh, then they were never really Christians." This is an issue of semantics. There are groups of people who were in Christ for many years and they now call themselves the deconverted. They were missionaries, pastors and those active within their churches. They are believers that wandered away from the truth and have remained in that state.

"Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels."

First of all, Jesus in saying "I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life" would infer that he is able to do that. Also, the promise is to those who overcome whatever those in the church of Sardis were doing to soil their clothes. The promise can also be reversed so that, the one who is not victorious "I will blot his name from the book of life." For ones name to be in the book of life and then to be blotted out would mean that he was a true believer.

In fact, when you read the letters to the seven churches, they can be reversed for those believers who do not overcome from whatever Jesus was rebuking them for.