Not By Works
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lol what can i say im a whacky scientist looking to find out how God created our world...its ok stating god created the earth in seven days,,,,, but when you read on we get told one day is like a thousand years to the lord...
Now im aloud to speculate when we have metorites landing from outer space with almino acids in them.. do you know what almino acids are ?
they are the building blocks for life.
Now im aloud to speculate when we have metorites landing from outer space with almino acids in them.. do you know what almino acids are ?
they are the building blocks for life.
W
very good and truthful Fran....I don't think most understand that there is no chastisement for willful rebellion and partaking of the sins unto death, just as there was no day of atonement for such rebellious sins in the OT..there is only death for such sins if not repented of, for it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God....Chastisement/teaching is for the obedient and pure of heart like Job for sins of ignorance while growing in the faith and being tested by God, not for the wilful rebellious who continue in sins unto death, but only a bitter repentance in a season of godly sorrow can help them...I enjoy your contending for the faith once delivered to the saints, be blessed always...
W
God only cleanses those that come clean with Him in repentance and turn from iniquity, He then extends the influencing power of His Spirit (grace) to live godly soberly and righteously in this present world. He doesn't give a new heart to any who are in the wilful sins of rebellion (bible 101).......be blessed
W
Greetings Jimbo......The phrase a day is as a thousand years with the Lord describes His patience, longsuffering, and desire that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance and live....Peter was not speaking in terms of a thousand year days....the OT is clear on three occasions by Moses that God created all things in 6 days......be blessed
W
the bible says Jesus learned obedience (chastisement) by much suffering.....He was under the authority of His earthly parents and had to grow up and learn things and suffer like all men/women do, even to the age of accountability, however He never sinned or was rebellious towards His earthly parents, mankind, or His heavenly Father........be blessed
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W
Quite true again Fran......I don't know anyone who is obedient and faithful from heart purity going around boasting is such things....But rather its a starw-man of accusation invented by the disobedient at heart, for the purpose of justifying iniquity to bring others down to their level....Scripture calls the obedient from heart purity "the worthy" not "the boasters"........Mostly when Paul spoke of boasting in works, he was referencing the Jews that were boasting in the Talmud and ceremonial ordnances of the OT, along with their genealogy for salvation.....be blessed always
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I sincerely hope and pray that you find your way out of bondage to legalism in your false religion, just like brother Anderson did.
The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
W
"cause" is by way of the influencing power of the Holy Spirit upon the heart (grace) unto the repented. It has nothing to do with force, for God CANNOT CIRCUMVENT mans freewill to chose whom he will serve, sin unto death, or righteousness unto life. However He has endowed all men/women with the natural light of conscience to seek Him diligently that He may be found and reward those that do........Be blessed
W
we are to be at peace with all men/women, and not to return evil for evil under any circumstances, completely patient and non violent to all men/women,however God does not cater to sinners in wilful rebellion, and neither does His ecclesia, but rather rebukes them and commands them to repent, Acts 17-30...............be blessed
I am free in Jesus. He saves me from my Sins because of the Faith I have in His Words alone. I need no man to tell me that God loves me and I love him. I follow Him because I love Him and am not in bondage to any man or false religion. I pray that you may read God's Word for yourself and stop trusting in the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God. I believe God's Word over the traditions of Man and I love God's Word how about you?
Isa 55:6-7,
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Well said!
That is the whole crux behind the "good works" debates. Everyone knows that the fruit of an exchanged heart will manifest in some form as goodness being expressed to others.
Without knowing the truth that good works do not save us - that Jesus and what he has already done saves us - then we have just created a religion and have replaced Christ Himself for "what we do or don't do" which is what the law of Moses was all about for obtaining salvation.
All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.
They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. Good works are an example of this.
We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested. The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.
In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved. The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.
All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.
The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.
We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ - not to keep ourselves saved.
Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.
W
Greetings, The Sabbath day was pointing to the Sabbath rest in Christ which is now 24/7 anytime anywhere two or more (the two witnesses) are gathered in His name He is in their mist....when one has ceased from his own works of sin he enters into HIS rest...the literal Sabbath day was among the feast days listed in Lev 23, which were done away with after a more Glorious one has come.....I would suggest using scripture to define scripture rather than James Strong who was part of the Oxford movement in rebellion to God's word........be blessed
Faith in your misinterpretation of His Words cannot save you. Faith in His finished work of redemption can save you (Romans 3:24-26). If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your EXACT answer? Your answer to this question will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in to receive eternal life.
Keep telling yourself that.
I don't trust in traditions of man over the Word of God and I certainly don't trust in the false teachings of the SDA church. I love God and I certainly love His Word, but I don't love it when people twist His Word and pervert the Gospel.
Keep telling yourself that.
I don't trust in traditions of man over the Word of God and I certainly don't trust in the false teachings of the SDA church. I love God and I certainly love His Word, but I don't love it when people twist His Word and pervert the Gospel.
Who said "force?" God works in us to will and do of His good pleasure '' Philippians 2:13. He changes the will, causing us to desire Him and what He works in us.
Really, a God who CANNOT eh? What an anemic pathetic god that would be, he'd hardly be god at all!
But this is exactly what God does do to any who are converted, and salvation is not by determinative choice in the first place, it is not based upon decision; John 1:13; Romans 9:11ff; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:3 &c. Note also Daniel 4:34ff; Proverbs 21:1; Psalm 115:3; Ezra 6:22 &c. Looks like God's Word is contrary to your decisional, determinative salvation on man's part/God CANNOT violate man's will or ways error...
Instead God is Sovereign and your teaching falls short.
So salvation is now a reward, based upon man's effort, not a gift of Grace. LOL!!!!!!!! Goodness sake man...
Really, a God who CANNOT eh? What an anemic pathetic god that would be, he'd hardly be god at all!
But this is exactly what God does do to any who are converted, and salvation is not by determinative choice in the first place, it is not based upon decision; John 1:13; Romans 9:11ff; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:3 &c. Note also Daniel 4:34ff; Proverbs 21:1; Psalm 115:3; Ezra 6:22 &c. Looks like God's Word is contrary to your decisional, determinative salvation on man's part/God CANNOT violate man's will or ways error...
Instead God is Sovereign and your teaching falls short.
So salvation is now a reward, based upon man's effort, not a gift of Grace. LOL!!!!!!!! Goodness sake man...
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Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by his own flesh and created an Ishmael. He thought he was doing a 'good work" to help the purposes of God.
God had to wait until Abraham and Sarah couldn't do anything in their own self-effort in order to produce the son of the promise and rely on God's life and power to bring about His purposes.
God doesn't recognize the things we do in the flesh. When God spoke to Abraham He said "Take your son, your only son ...".
God doesn't recognize the things of the flesh - even good things. He only sees that which has originated from Him.
Here is a quote about the flesh and "doing good deeds" within themselves from Major Ian Thomas that drives the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset and those that think good works keep us saved crazy.
To the humble mind we would think - "Yes - Lord without You we can do nothing. You are our life." - but unfortunately some will fight against this because it exposes the flesh to be what it really is.
It's all about the "origin" of these good works and of course none of them keep us saved. That's religious nonsense and just creates a religion.
Quote:
You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.
The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.
The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!
The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).
We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.
The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.
“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."
Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ
God had to wait until Abraham and Sarah couldn't do anything in their own self-effort in order to produce the son of the promise and rely on God's life and power to bring about His purposes.
God doesn't recognize the things we do in the flesh. When God spoke to Abraham He said "Take your son, your only son ...".
God doesn't recognize the things of the flesh - even good things. He only sees that which has originated from Him.
Here is a quote about the flesh and "doing good deeds" within themselves from Major Ian Thomas that drives the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset and those that think good works keep us saved crazy.
To the humble mind we would think - "Yes - Lord without You we can do nothing. You are our life." - but unfortunately some will fight against this because it exposes the flesh to be what it really is.
It's all about the "origin" of these good works and of course none of them keep us saved. That's religious nonsense and just creates a religion.
Quote:
You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.
The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.
The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!
The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).
We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.
The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.
“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."
Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ
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I would like to hear you and fran discuss this some more. You both seem to understand that it is not easily laid out and that there are parts that cannot be left out or it falls into disrepair! You both are the ones to have the discussion so we can read it, because you seem to be able TO have it without ruining it by fleshly displays and outbursts. I would like to see the two of you discuss this matter unmolested or at least to ignore the molestations and outbursts so we can follow along and ignore them too.
I think it would be a big help.
I think it would be a big help.