The Lord's Prayer

[prove-all]

Thy Kingdom come

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
1 Thessalonians 4:16. “If I go and prepare a place [position, office, habitation] for you,

I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also”
In vision, John saw the angels praising Christ at His coming to rule this Earth. They said,

“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)
The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of this current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)

-Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and jutice.
a father to [the inhabitants] of Jerusalem,and to the house of Judah (Isaiah 22:21)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of
David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)

Apostle John, in vision, saw a preview of the beginning of that rule and world government
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them…and
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from
another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep[changed beings] from the goats[still mortals]:

Jesus said no one could see or enter into the Kingdom of God until he is born of God
(John 3:3-5). He made plain when one is born of God, he, just as God is, will be spirit.

We have now, as humans, been born of flesh—and therefore we are flesh. But God is
spirit (John 4:24), and when we are born of God—of the Spirit—we shall be spirit
(John 3:6-8). Now, we are earthy—of the earth (1?Corinthians 15:48). We are “flesh
and blood” from the earth—from matter (ver.50)—yet flesh and blood humans cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God . But, as we have borne the image of the earthy—mortal
—human—we shall, when born of God, bear the image of the heavenly—that is, spirit.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn of many brethren (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:18)
who shall be born of God by a “resurrection” (John 5:25-29; 6:39, 40, 44).

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).

And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

-A Kingdom appointed, made ruler over some cities.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:17-19)

-the meek shall inherit the earth
Matthew 5:5,Psalms 37:11, Psalms 22:26, 37:9, 22,29
Psalms 25:13 (KJV)
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

8Thou didst cause judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared, and was still,
9When God arose to judgment, to save all the meek of the earth. Selah.
10Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Holy Spirit testifies to this in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:14-18 (NASB)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[prove-all]

As the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth
in clouds (Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),

the dead in Christ—those who have received and been led by God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection, made immortal—including
all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who have the Spirit of God, then living,
shall be instantaneously changed from mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54)

and, together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified Christ
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him, where He is,
forever (John 14:3). They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand
with Him, therefore, that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).

(2 Corinthians 6:2). It should read “a day of salvation,” not “the” day or [only day]
(quoted from Isaiah 49:8, where it is a not the).

Jesus said that no man who ever lived was greater than John the Baptist.
Yet, even the least in the resurrected Kingdom will be greater (Matthew 11:11)

After human misrule causes great tribulation that almost wipes out civilization,
Jesus Christ will return to Earth to establish His rule. Christ will be Unwelcome.

The nations will be angry at His coming (Revelation 11:15 with 11:18), and the
military forces will actually attempt to fight Him to destroy Him! (Revelation 17:14).

the plague wherewith the [Eternal] will smite all the people [armies] that have fought
against Jerusalem; (verse 12) Their flesh,their eyes ,and tongue shall consume away..

The day of man, swayed, deceived, misled by Satan for 6,000 years, is over.Rev.20:1-3,
Ironic that the devil will be forced into rest for 1000 years, from decieving the nations.

The rebellious nature of man.“A new heart also will I give you … (Eze 36:26-27, 33
I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded”

No one will be deceived any longer. But “the earth shall be full of the knowledge of
the [Eternal], as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:9).

God’s law and the Word of the Eternal shall go forth from Zion, spreading over the
whole Earth (Isaiah 2:3).God’s Holy Spirit shall flow out from Jerusalem (Zech. 14:8).

Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images
to cease out of Memphis; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt:
and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt.(Ezekiel 30:13)

“But there the glorious [Eternal] will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams;
wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby. For the
Eternal is our judge, the [Eternal] is our lawgiver, the Eternal is our king;he will save us..
Isaiah 33:21

“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the
[Eternal] shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted
above the hills; and people shall flow unto it” (Micah 4:1).

the [Eternal] is our lawgiver -With only one Church—one religion—one faith—
Jesus rebukes strong nations- they destroy there weapons -no wars(Isaiah 2:4,Micah 4:3

“And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of
the [Eternal], and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion [the Church], and the
word of the [Eternal] from Jerusalem.

-All will speak the same language, a pure language with one consent (Zephaniah 3:9).

God says, “For then will turn I to the people a pure language, that they may all call
upon the name of the [Eternal], to serve him with one consent” (Zephaniah 3:9).


-God made the moon for seasons Psalms 104:19 , again-Gods calander run off the moon
will be used, not the sun as todays calander- the Sabbath for man, or all flesh (Isaiah 66:23)
The Lord hath done this (Lam. 2:17), He allowed the enemy to change times. (Daniel 7:25)
but he will fix this at his comming. 1 Samuel 2:10 - Sabbaths- Zechariah 14:17

-sick-James 5:14 (KJV)
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church;
and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

future mill. God compares disease and sickness with sins and forgiven their iniquity

“And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein
shall be forgiven their iniquity” (Isaiah 33:21-22, 24).

“Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are
of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind
shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man
leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing…” (Isaiah 35:3-6).

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily

-They will rebuild and repair the waste cities to be inhabited (Isaiah 54:3; 61:4)

And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt
raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called,
The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. (Isaiah 58:12)

God chose Jerusalem (1 Kings 8:53) shall choose Jerusalem again (Zech. 2:12)

 

[loveme1]

The Holy Spirit testifies to this in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:14-18 (NASB)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Hebrews 10



10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

King James Version (KJV)

 

[prove-all]

—Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)

Only Jerusalem is builded as a city that is uniquely describes as being
“compact together,” maybe referring to some kind of high-rises. Psalm 122:3

-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed , men will go over dryshod” (Isaiah 11:15)
The world’s gold and silver reserves are mostly under the seas, vast wealth there is.

The abundance of the sea shall be converted unto Jerusalem (Isaiah 60:5).
The forces H2428 [wealth, margin] of the Gentiles shall come unto thee”

Beautiful decorations for the capital building, the temple in which our Christ will dwell.
a prophecy for now “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. (Malachi 3:8-10)

Growing populations in all nations are rapidly outstripping the ability of the world
to sustain them. God will make most of the Earth cultivatable and liveable.

God who formed the hills and mountains, that the huge earthquakes yet to come
which God says, “The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt…” (Nahum 1:5),
will re-shape in a way rehabilitation of the land surfaces.(eg. Rev 16:18, Zech. 14:4.)

-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small, the hills made as chaff,
the wind shall carry them away and the worldwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt
rejoice in the Lord, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:14-16

-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (verse 17-18)

He will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys:
I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

-Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35)
Deserts becoming green, fertile, garden lands of trees, shrubs,
bubbling springs and brooks; mountains brought low, and made inhabitable.

a plant of renown

29And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more
consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more
The streets of Jerusalem -Social atmosphere there.

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)

The voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bridethe voice of them that shall say,
Praise the Lord of hosts; for his mercy endureth for ever …” (Jeremiah 33:10-11)

-Waste cities filled with flocks of men (Ezekiel 36:37-38)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Equitable property distribution-own vine and fig tree-none afraid (Micah 4:4-Lev25)

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
The population Explosion of today,and food shortage will be all solved for man.
-Cities as being very social “filled with flocks of men” (Ezekiel 36:36-38)

-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon,
it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk thereIsaiah 35:9 )
-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

5And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her
assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night:
for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6And there shall be a tabernacle for a
shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert
from storm and from rain. (Isaiah 4:5-6)

dwelling place of mount Zion (Isaiah 18:7, Psalms 48:2
Those that fight against mount Zion (Isaiah 29:8)

-shall come to pass whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered:
31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord
shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Psalms 66:4-God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11).

 

[prove-all]

God will heal the contaminated waters of the Dead Sea,

Lot chose the Jordan Valley. At that time, there was no Dead Sea! ,
the entire valley was like Eden, the garden of God. Everywhere in
the valley, its fertile soil was well watered.

But this, of course, was before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 13:10).

“It was of old a most happy land,” first-century historian Josephus wrote, “both for the
fruits it bore and the riches of its cities, although it be now all burnt up” (Wars,iv, 8, 4).


The Prophet Ezekiel wrote of a coming time, now just ahead, when a river will flow out
of God’s millennial headquarters in Jerusalem, heading east into the Jordan Valley.

That pure river, the prophet said, will heal the contaminated waters of the Dead Sea,
making them fresh and pure! Fishermen will line the shores of the once infamous sea,
filling their nets with fish. Fruit trees of every kind will grow along the riverbanks,
producing fruit every month (read Ezekiel 47).

Yes, God will restore life and abundance to this millennia-old, uninhabitable, barren wasteland.

 

[joaniemarie]

This is exactly the type of behavior that comes when people deceitfully say something that is NOT said.

No one has said that "nothing Jesus taught before His resurrection applies to us".

What is really being said is that we must rightly divide the word and filter all scripture through the finished work of Christ.

This is a good topic. But people need to take some time and have willingness to listen for what is really being said. You obviously have not stated anywhere on these threads that what Jesus said before the cross doesn't apply to us.

I have been saved since 1982 but only heard about the differences in the covenants about 5yrs ago. Everything changed after the cross. There are topics Christians need to hear about like there is a difference between disciples and sons. Just like you tried to share here Bruce. Understanding different covenants and learning things that were required in one is not required in another. We believers are not under the law but under grace. Major difference.

The whole reason many of us Christians come here to CC is to learn about the Bible and discuss it. So this is an excellent topic and one that will help believers grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It's all about seeing Jesus in the Bible. We have to learn to rightly divide the Word of truth. It's our calling. Amen!!

 

[joaniemarie]

Bible does not say we should not pray it anymore, first apostolic church prayed it regularly every day several times, church prays it for 2000 years in all branches, including protestants.

So if there is no serious reason, I would not move "ancient landmarks".

Some ancient landmarks need to be moved aside. I have the Lord's Prayer or The Disciple's Prayer up in my house but I now read it with more understanding than I read it years before. We are not forgiven BECAUSE we have forgiven others. We are forgiven because in Christ we are forgiven. That truth stands above whether we forgive or don't forgive. We love God because HE FIRST loved us.

We as believers have to read this prayer in the context of the Cross. After Jesus died and rose again., He also sent His Spirit to be with us. Now we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise. Unlike any other time (covenant) The Holy Spirit came and went before Jesus but He was not promised to stay with us and never leave us until Jesus left and promised to come again for us. He left us in good hands.

So much to learn from the Bible even us old dogs can still learn many major truths that are new to us but as old as the Bible.

 

[joaniemarie]

This can be truth, but I am quite afraid of that filter...

What's to be afraid of? Jesus is what we are uncovering in the Bible. The Holy Spirit always points us to Jesus. The Bible has to be used and studied and seen and lived we have to be able to boldly go forward in the Holy Spirit knowing He WILL lead us into all truth. (Jesus is the Truth and the Life)

But we have to take those daring steps into the deep ocean. He uses the Bible and wants us to be so familiar with it we don't fear to read even the difficult parts. All is profitable for reproof, correction., doctrine., that the man of God be thoroughly furnished unto good works..... 2 Tim.3:17

 

[joaniemarie]

Don't you find it interesting that no place in the epistles to the churches is this prayer mentioned or that we are to do it?

The epistles are all independent letters from the apostles to the churches.

People are free to pray whatever they want. How they respond to their Father and Lord is between them and Them. ( a little play on words there.."them on Them." )

Exactly Brother! Jesus brings liberty to the captives. Jesus Christ has given us His Spirit and with Him comes a boldness and a liberty that the law and Mosses never could bring.

 

[joaniemarie]

Grace... what on earth is possessing you to try and teach us the Lord's Prayer is not for us? The Lord's Prayer is taught by the Messiah to us.. He gave Testimony through His disciples and then it would all be here for us today....How to pray and where is given for us to learn from.

Why try to teach us this type of belief system of yours?

What good do you think comes from it?


You are trying to confuse people.. deliberately.. no I think you are deceived by someone else..

Not at all sister. It's about learning about the differences in the covenants and how Jesus is to be seen in each one of them. He is revealed differently or better said, Jesus is unfolded so we can see Him more clearly. The 10 commandments will not save a person. They were a schoolmaster to show us how inept we humans are. We can't follow the letter of the law because only Jesus can. But that doesn't mean the law is bad. It was used to reveal Jesus.

We have to begin to grow up and hear what the Spirit is saying. We do that by not fearing to look and see and challenge our old way of thinking and having the process of renewing of our minds to learn the new and living way of the Spirit. Trusting He will lead us into all truth. He will reveal Jesus to us. He is seen all through the Bible. The law came through Mosses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[joaniemarie]

Jesus said "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."

Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!

These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.

Amen well written!! I had no idea this thread was started today.

Excellent topic and one that will be a major life changer for those who have not heard before. It certainly was for me. I heard this a few years ago and am journeying with the Holy Spirit like never before in my Christian life.

Us Christians need to grow up outside of our religious mindsets that keep us locked up in brick and mortar churches. We are the body of Christ here. The Holy Spirit wants to set us free in Christ to be more like Jesus. But how can we if we don't see Him in the Bible new every morning? We will never fully arrive to know all there is to know about Jesus from His Holy Spirit. There is more every day to learn.

Those rivers of living water flow when Jesus is seen and believed. John 7:38-39

[SUP]38 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, [SUP][a][/SUP]from within him shall flow rivers of living water. [SUP]39 [/SUP]But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: [SUP][b][/SUP]for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.

 

[joaniemarie]

I don't know about idea of you can refuse to forgive someone and still be forgiven by God. Is that what you are saying? I am not completely sure if that is what you are saying but it seems that way from other posts I have read by you. To me it seems that if you do not forgive others their sins your heavenly Father will not forgive your sins that if this no longer applies, then it is like saying Jesus changed his mind. I don't see how it could possibly not still apply today. Maybe it is those who have not received Jesus that are the ones who never forgive.

That's why we need to go deeper into the Scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the truth for us. Jesus didn't change His mind. He gave the disciples what they needed at the time they needed it. They did not have the Holy Spirit yet and Jesus had not been risen yet. It's so important for us believers to dare to "hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches".

 

[loveme1]

Not at all sister. It's about learning about the differences in the covenants and how Jesus is to be seen in each one of them. He is revealed differently or better said, Jesus is unfolded so we can see Him more clearly. The 10 commandments will not save a person. They were a schoolmaster to show us how inept we humans are. We can't follow the letter of the law because only Jesus can. But that doesn't mean the law is bad. It was used to reveal Jesus.

We have to begin to grow up and hear what the Spirit is saying. We do that by not fearing to look and see and challenge our old way of thinking and having the process of renewing of our minds to learn the new and living way of the Spirit. Trusting He will lead us into all truth. He will reveal Jesus to us. He is seen all through the Bible. The law came through Mosses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The Grace and Truth came through the Messiah indeed... the same Messiah teaches us to Keep the Commandments.. He also taught us the Lord's Prayer.... and so on...

One will be born again of the Holy Spirit to serve and Worship GOD in Spirit and Truth.

Faith that worketh love.

Anyone teaching against the Messiah's Testimony is not born of the Holy Spirit.. it attests to His Testimony.

The Word of God is alive it cuts through and discerns...

The word not mixed with Faith is of no profit.

Those that keep the Commandments of God and have the Testimony of the Messiah are called saints.

Many will say yes and this is His Commandment:


1 John 3


23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


certainly this is true in line with everything else we were taught.


Prior to the above it is written:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.




And much more if you keep everything in context.





The Messiah is teaching us the Truth through Grace.

Now you are to believe by Keeping His word Faithfully.

 

[joaniemarie]

So the Lord's Prayer doesn't apply to us today. The Lord's Prayer is part of the Sermon on the Mount. So to be consistent, things said in the Sermon on the Mount do NOT apply to us today. For example Matthew 5:27-28: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." So that doesn't apply to me today. Freakin' awesome Grace777, I've been looking for a loophole on that one, and gosh darn it, didn't the hyper-grace message just give me one. Thanks!

I'm convinced after reading so many of these posts people SEE what they WANT to see and no more. The only thing "consistent"
is the desire to misrepresent what is being said. Then to take what was misrepresented by someone the 1st time revamp it and post it a 2nd time., replay it and present it as being said by Bruce and call it his words. GACK

I see this done in politics here in the United States. Jesus expects better things of us!! It's the fine art of learning to be good listeners. Slow to speak.... quick to hear.

 

[joaniemarie]

The forgiveness of sins is the gospel message. All sins except for the sin of unbelief in Christ's sacrifice is done away with at the cross.

Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. This truth "conflicts" with our church teachings but its time to be preaching the true gospel so that people can be truly free.

This is the ministry that we have now in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

If we understood what spiritual circumcision is where the body of flesh is "cut away" ( Co. 2:11 ) from the new creation in Christ - the new man of the heart - then we would be able to see why He has removed sin from us as far as east is from the west.

Then we would understand Romans 8:9 which says "But you are in in the flesh but in the spirit - if Christ be in you."

Then we would understand 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 where it says that the one born of God "cannot sin" because he is born of God. This cannot sin is in the present tense which means a sin done now whether once or a million times.

Some have watered it down to say "does not continuously sin" because they don't know what to do with it because all Christians still sin from time to time.

But sin is called doing the deeds of the body ( Rom. 8:13 ) - it is never called "sinning in our spirit where Christ is one spirit with us".

The knowledge of this truth has led me to live a holier life then I ever dreamed possible. I am only sharing it with others here . What they do with it - is between them and their Lord and Father.

Happened to me too Brother. Amen. What you are telling here is the Gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought. He has given us a new and living way in Spirit and in Truth. Bruce., keep on challenging us Christians here it's good to be challenged on a daily basis to see what we know and believe and why we believe it. We need to know that the things we believe will stand up to Bible living scrutiny.

It sort of reminds me of a 5 point Calvinist (like I used to be) who believes in all kinds of church rules. So one day someone like me gets put in a concentration camp out in Bosnia somewhere., and there are 10 believers out of 500 people. Those 10 are praying together in a corner somewhere. My church teaching tells me NOT to associate with them because they don't believe the Bible the way I do. They don't agree so they are not in fellowship with the Holy Spirit like me so for me to "fellowship" with them is a sin.

Sooo if I'm a good church goer who follows the rules., I'd be with the unsaved who are swearing., crying and without hope. I'd be all sanctimonious in my secondary separation from "wayward believers" who are not as "spiritual" as me.

But the truth is I could be with the brethren worshiping Jesus and praying for help and healing and comfort in the Spirit. I'd be blessed and comforted instead of being self righteous and alone in the world.

 

[joaniemarie]

I just find it interesting that there is no mention of this " we must forgive in order to be forgiven" in an epistles.

If our forgiveness hinged on this in the New Covenant - wouldn't it be mentioned at least once in an epistle written to the church? I mean - after all - if we are not forgiven - do we go to hell?

Answer this question above for ourselves. I know that if my eternal destination was at stake here - I would think one apostle would have mentioned it at least once. But it doesn't exist.

Instead we have numerous scriptures saying to forgive "just as " God has forgiven you in Christ. Paul in a few places exhorts us to "put on the new man in Christ'.

The new creation which is joined as one spirit with the Lord will always forgive because the Forgiver lives in us.

The principle of the kingdom of God in the New Covenant after the cross and resurrection is - We love because He first loved us. We forgive because He first forgave us.

In Him - we have redemption through His blood - the forgiveness of sins - according to His grace. Eph. 1:7

I'll just leave it at that and let people make up their own minds on this.

​exactly!!! AMEN

 

[joaniemarie]

Ephesians 5:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

[SUP]26 [/SUP] so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

[SUP]27 [/SUP] that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

The Lord cleanses us by the washing of the water of the word. The word that He uses is the verse before it " Christ loves us and He gave Himself up for her".

Hearing of this "word" of the finished work of Christ for us because of His love for us - cleanses us.

Here is how we are transformed.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The true way of transformation in Christ is by "beholding" the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. When we see the glory of the Lord we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.

"Transformed" is in the passive mood which mean the Holy Spirit changes us to reveal the life of Christ that is in us outwardly so that others can see Christ. We participate with the Spirit of God within us in this.

This "putting on of Christ" is paramount in order for others to see the real Christ that is in us. This being transformed is seen as renewing the mind to the truth of Christ and all that He has done. Romans 12:2

He has completely and unconditionally given Himself over to you and He has revealed His love in the Lord Jesus Christ. Does this want to make us go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No!

It makes our hearts melt in love for Him as we see Him for who He truly is and run to the One who loves us and gave His life for us. We have died and our true life is hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3

Another good AMEN!

 

[loveme1]

What manner of books are being used in place of the Holy Spirit that leads you away from the Good Shepherd's voice?

 

[joaniemarie]

Yes we are forgiven and that knowledge of forgiveness in Christ enables us to forgive. The person who refuses to forgive either needs to know how much Christ has forgiven him/her or does not belong to Christ. He that loves not knows not God for God is love. See 1 John 4:7-8. Forgiveness is all about love.

Amen.,exactly. We love God because He first loved us. (Not the other way around) Praise Jesus! Herein is love...not that we loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1John 4:10
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.