The Lord's Prayer

[followjesus]

Maybe it`s just me but this is my opinion on The Lords Prayer...I think it is so Holy, so BEA~UTI~FUL that anyone who prays it at any time uses it for their own personal reasons, i do not believe that it should be picked at, pulled apart for discussion for the filth of human hearts to stamp all over it because thats some peoples own opinions... The LORDS Prayer is SACRED and that is how it should remain, it hurts my heart to see how this can also be seperated from what it truly is, the blessed prayer of OUR SAVIOR...Forgive them Father, but DO they know what they do...

amen who do people think we are to rip apart the Kings word......

 

[dcontroversal]

You OBVIOUSLY never went to Catholic school. Every Friday we went down and said something like This to the priest:

"Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been a week since my last confession." Priest- " what sins have you committed?" me- " er... Ummm... I hit my brother, I cursed 6 times, I looked on someone's test sheet...." etc... Priest - for your pennance say 6 Hail Marys, and 7 Our Fathers"

Didn't get much out of the Lord's prayer then! Lol

No and thank God........

 

[followjesus]

James 2

1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.






Did James state we can transgress one law and be guilty of all?

Let us bring to mind the Testimony of the Messiah...

Did he not warn us it would be better to cut off our right hand if it cause us to offend.. yes, because it is better that not our whole body be cast in to hell.


Royal law?

Here it is:


Matthew 22



6 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.



Some here refuse even the Lord's Prayer... oh you deny yourselves
good in your ignorance.

Faith?

You want a get out of jail card without lifting a finger because you believed not.

mans version of Love

[video=youtube;Vzo0iHrivVQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzo0iHrivVQ[/video]


Gods true Love

1 john 3:17-24 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


1 john 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, ( Love one another) when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Some verses from the epistles which encourage us to forgive others:

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ


Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.


I do not believe we forgive others in order to be forgiven by God. I believe God tells us to forgive others so that we do not hold grudges against anyone. Holding a grudge can cause us to be bitter in our hearts and bitterness of heart is not good for us (spiritually, emotionally, physically). Bitterness can cause many problems in our walk. It is best to forgive, just as we have been forgiven. In Proverbs 19:11 we are told A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense.


In 2 Corinthians 2:10-11 we are warned that unforgiveness can lead to giving satan an advantage. Why would any believer want to give satan an advantage? Something to think about ...

 

[followjesus]

Some verses from the epistles which encourage us to forgive others:

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ


Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.


I do not believe we forgive others in order to be forgiven by God. I believe God tells us to forgive others so that we do not hold grudges against anyone. Holding a grudge can cause us to be bitter in our hearts and bitterness of heart is not good for us (spiritually, emotionally, physically). Bitterness can cause many problems in our walk. It is best to forgive, just as we have been forgiven. In Proverbs 19:11 we are told A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense.


In 2 Corinthians 2:10-11 we are warned that unforgiveness can lead to giving satan an advantage. Why would any believer want to give satan an advantage? Something to think about ...

we forgive Knowing His Forgiveness, yet very real and very true is the parable of the One forgiven, who does not then forgive. to a person that is not forgiving, the teaching of what happens when you refuse to forgive, is a teacher from the reverential fear that we are to Have for Gods word of warning. it doesnt change the fact that the Motivation is that were forgiven, its a warning to those who refuse to forgive. Notice He is forgiven all His debt, goes out and refuses to forgive the One who owes Him, He then is recalled and the debt is reinstated. us forgiving others is something that is not only good for us, it is something if we have trouble with it, we need to accept the truth that it is a requirement. you are right its something thats for us, but remember that it is also for the good of the other person.

John 20:21-23 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


we have to realize and take seriously that we are stewards of Gods Holy spirit and His Word. we represent Jesus Christ. if we go about not forgiving others, we are representing a God who does not forgive people. when someone does us wrong, and we retain a grudge, take revenge, make Known thier wrong is held against them. we Hurt ourselves, and we Hurt them. thats Not Love. this passage doesnt mean if i dont forgive you, God will not, it means if I dont forgive You, I am not forgiven. If i remit others sins, mine are remitted, if I believe Jesus did what He did to forgive Me, i will not have an issue with His teaching about forgiveness. some will explain How Christ is working through them or He is in us, How we treat other people tells the truth ofthat statement.

I see the red in this scripture, the I used to see the Black because i made excuses of why i didnt need to forgive. in seeing the Black, and heeding that truth, i see the red Now, to see the red correctly, i had to acknowledge the black as spoken By my Lord. He is our teacher that corrects Our sin, and removes it from our Heart by His word

matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[Grace777x70]

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. IMO - To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after the cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

This is why Paul encouraged Christians in his letters to forgive others "because we have been forgiven". Paul says to "put on Christ" - live by the new man that is created in righteousness and holiness. Col. 3:13 & Eph. 4:32

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin. So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive.

We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

 

[joaniemarie]

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. IMO - To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after the cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

This is why Paul encouraged Christians in his letters to forgive others "because we have been forgiven". Paul says to "put on Christ" - live by the new man that is created in righteousness and holiness. Col. 3:13 & Eph. 4:32

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin. So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive.

We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

Once a believer starts to see this truth., real change begins to take place. I've noticed there is a lot of fear here about walking in the freedom that Christ died to give us. To suggest we are to step over that line of law unto grace can actually cause major fear and suspicion from people here.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

we forgive Knowing His Forgiveness, yet very real and very true is the parable of the One forgiven, who does not then forgive. to a person that is not forgiving, the teaching of what happens when you refuse to forgive, is a teacher from the reverential fear that we are to Have for Gods word of warning. it doesnt change the fact that the Motivation is that were forgiven, its a warning to those who refuse to forgive. Notice He is forgiven all His debt, goes out and refuses to forgive the One who owes Him, He then is recalled and the debt is reinstated.

This parable was spoken by Jesus in answer to a question by Peter. Peter asked Jesus how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? (Matt 18:21). Jesus answered until seventy times seven (Matt 18:22).

Jesus then went on with the parable.

We are instructed to be tenderhearted and forgiving toward one another (Eph 4:32). At this point in time, I cannot think of anyone I have not forgiven. However, if I have neglected to forgive someone, I do not believe that I will be delivered to the tormenters (Matt 18:35).

In Psalm 103 we are told God forgives all our iniquities (vs 3), He is merciful, gracious, slow to anger, plenteous in mercy (vs 8), He removes our transgressions from us as far as the east is from the west (vs 12).

In Hebrews 10:17 we are told God will not remember our sins and iniquities because our Lord Jesus Christ has perfected forever them that are sanctified (Heb 10:16).

So now you're telling me He not only remembers our sins but He lays them back on those who He has already forgiven?

Do you believe you will be delivered to the tormenters if you have not forgiven someone who has trespassed against you, and that God will pull your sins back to His memory and lay them back on you? All this after His Son died on the cross to perfect you forever?

us forgiving others is something that is not only good for us, it is something if we have trouble with it, we need to accept the truth that it is a requirement. you are right its something thats for us, but remember that it is also for the good of the other person.

John 20:21-23 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


we have to realize and take seriously that we are stewards of Gods Holy spirit and His Word. we represent Jesus Christ. if we go about not forgiving others, we are representing a God who does not forgive people. when someone does us wrong, and we retain a grudge, take revenge, make Known thier wrong is held against them. we Hurt ourselves, and we Hurt them. thats Not Love. this passage doesnt mean if i dont forgive you, God will not, it means if I dont forgive You, I am not forgiven.

I do not agree that if I do not forgive someone I am not forgiven. That just flies in the face of all Jesus Christ endured on our behalf.

Truthfully, there is nothing that comes to mind which I have not forgiven. However, I know people who have had horrible things done to them by others and forgiveness is something they are struggling with. I do not believe God is going to lay sins He has already forgiven back on them if they are unable to forgive.

In agreement that we are to be faithful stewards and we are to walk in love.

 

[Hatchy3]

So was Jesus death for only back then. Who has taught you such rubbish. The Lord's prayer was and is a way for us to pray. That's what Jesus said to the disciples, when they asked him how to pray, anyway God bless you brother.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I do not agree that if I do not forgive someone I am not forgiven. That just flies in the face of all Jesus Christ endured on our behalf.

Well here's the thing. Christ on the Cross was forgiving His bitter enemies who did not know God as their Father. Indeed they were enemies of God. But when God's children approach Him to be forgiven, they must first examine their own hearts to see if they are holding hatred, animosity, bitterness, anger, wrath, or malice deep inside. These are all manifestation of "the flesh" and we are commanded to mortify (put to death) the flesh and walk in the Spirit. We cannot have fellowship with the Father unless we forgive others, so it is reasonable, logical, and spiritual to forgive before asking for forgiveness. And since it is clearly commanded by Christ, this is not even debatable.

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This is also why Peter was told that if necessary he must forgive the same person 70 x 7 times if he sins against him that many times. Imagine 490 occasions of forgiveness to the same thorn in your side!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Well here's the thing. Christ on the Cross was forgiving His bitter enemies who did not know God as their Father. Indeed they were enemies of God. But when God's children approach Him to be forgiven, they must first examine their own hearts to see if they are holding hatred, animosity, bitterness, anger, wrath, or malice deep inside. These are all manifestation of "the flesh" and we are commanded to mortify (put to death) the flesh and walk in the Spirit. We cannot have fellowship with the Father unless we forgive others, so it is reasonable, logical, and spiritual to forgive before asking for forgiveness. And since it is clearly commanded by Christ, this is not even debatable.

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This is also why Peter was told that if necessary he must forgive the same person 70 x 7 times if he sins against him that many times. Imagine 490 occasions of forgiveness to the same thorn in your side!

As I posted earlier, I have forgiven all who have done me wrong and I will continue to do so. I cannot in good conscience allow God to forgive me and withhold mercy and forgiveness from someone who has wronged me.


I also encourage others to forgive and not hold bitterness in their hearts. But I cannot make someone else forgive others who have wronged them. And I am thinking of specific people I have spoken with who have had devastating wrongs done to them by others. And I believe that God has forgiven them of their wrongs even if they are unforgiving toward others at this point in their walk.


There are too many verses in which God proclaims He forgives, casts our sins from us, remembers them no more. For God to lay our sins upon His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and forgive us, only to then lay our sins back on us does not jive with Scripture which tells us God forgives, God remembers no more, God cleanses us from all unrighteousness.


1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;


How many times does Jesus Christ have to die?

Do you believe you will be delivered to the tormenters if you have not forgiven someone who has trespassed against you, and that God will pull your sins back to His memory and lay them back on you? All this after His Son died on the cross to perfect you forever?

 

[Adaora]

Yes, thanks loads. That was really helpful.

 

[Desertsrose]

As I posted earlier, I have forgiven all who have done me wrong and I will continue to do so. I cannot in good conscience allow God to forgive me and withhold mercy and forgiveness from someone who has wronged me.I also encourage others to forgive and not hold bitterness in their hearts. But I cannot make someone else forgive others who have wronged them. And I am thinking of specific people I have spoken with who have had devastating wrongs done to them by others. And I believe that God has forgiven them of their wrongs even if they are unforgiving toward others at this point in their walk.There are too many verses in which God proclaims He forgives, casts our sins from us, remembers them no more. For God to lay our sins upon His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and forgive us, only to then lay our sins back on us does not jive with Scripture which tells us God forgives, God remembers no more, God cleanses us from all unrighteousness.1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;How many times does Jesus Christ have to die?Do you believe you will be delivered to the tormenters if you have not forgiven someone who has trespassed against you, and that God will pull your sins back to His memory and lay them back on you? All this after His Son died on the cross to perfect you forever?

Hi Renewed,


Jesus said blessed are the merciful for they will obtain mercy.


So how does one become merciful? Through the new birth. Once we've been born of the Spirit, we begin to grow fruit. Because I grow good fruit, I show that I'm a good tree.


Because I obey, I show that I love Jesus.


So because I forgive, I show that the Spirit of God abides in me. Therefore I will be merciful and extend mercy to those who don't deserve it.


So it's not the struggle that proves anything one way or the other. It's the fact that we're overcomes, we win the battle of the flesh and walk in obedience because we love Jesus more than our own life. We deny ourselves, we take up our cross and we follow Jesus and do it His way.


I'll put it as John Piper did.

If the forgiveness that we received at the cost of the blood of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, is so ineffective in our hearts that we are bent on holding unforgiving grudges and bitterness against someone, we are not a good tree. We are not saved. We don’t cherish this forgiveness. We don’t trust in this forgiveness. We don’t embrace and treasure this forgiveness. We are hypocrites. We are just mouthing. We haven’t ever felt the piercing, joyful wonder that God paid the life of his Son.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I respectfully disagree with John Piper. I have worked with people who are born again and yet they are dealing with some devastating and horrendous issues. Some might not ever forgive before they pass from this life but that does not mean that they are not saved or that God did not forgive their sins.


God knows those who are saved and God works in the hearts of His children and God also understands what some of His children have been through. Does God work in their hearts to help them to heal and forgive those who have caused them to have deep wounds that take a lifetime to heal? I believe He does.


If they pass away before they have gotten to the point where they can forgive, does God deliver them to the tormenters? Does God lay back on them the sins for which they were forgiven at the time they were born again? I do not believe He does.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't believe the Lord delivers anyone to tormentors but it could just be that unforgiveness has a spirit attached and ones mind is tormented.

Forgiveness IMO has power of deliverance.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't believe the Lord delivers anyone to tormentors but it could just be that unforgiveness has a spirit attached and ones mind is tormented.

Forgiveness IMO has power of deliverance.

Yes, in agreement, that forgiveness is mightily important. I'm just trying to point out that we are weak and God works within us from the moment we are born again. He perfects us and conforms us to the image of Christ. And part of that perfecting and conforming is in helping us to forgive others. I have worked with some people who have had some pretty horrendous experiences in their lives and they have not gotten to the point of forgiveness (yet). If they should pass from this lifetime before they have gotten to that point, I do not believe God will deliver them to the tormenters. Nor do I believe that God has not forgiven their trespasses.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, in agreement, that forgiveness is mightily important. I'm just trying to point out that we are weak and God works within us from the moment we are born again. He perfects us and conforms us to the image of Christ. And part of that perfecting and conforming is in helping us to forgive others. I have worked with some people who have had some pretty horrendous experiences in their lives and they have not gotten to the point of forgiveness (yet). If they should pass from this lifetime before they have gotten to that point, I do not believe God will deliver them to the tormenters. Nor do I believe that God has not forgiven their trespasses.

I agree. It wasn't until I realized the we all that have ever lived are forgiven of all sin that I understood what all we've been given in the Cross of Jesus Christ. I too thought for years that we would not be forgiven unless we forgave.

I love the revealing of the nature of Father. Not at all the angry God who's ready to strike fire down from heaven each time we sin.

That thought alone is enough to make us mentally disturbed. I had a disturbed smiley...lol

You are in a good place to help others.

night renewed.

(not universalism, one must receive the benefit) we have to be so careful what we say now.

 

[followjesus]

"He perfects us and conforms us to the image of Christ."

that Happens when we Believe Jesus Word is the Word of Life so when we see this

matt. 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

and keep it within you because you have faith in the one who said it. Gods Word goes to work conforming the thinking and the result is that we forgive others.

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

John 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

we dont have to be perfect, we simply have to believe Jesus and understand He spoke the words of God, and from the beginning we see the power of Gods Word to create.

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

and God said forgive, and there was forgiveness in the heart of man.

2 corinthians 4:6 "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


Gods word creates in us, Like it does in all things, Just as He said let there be Light and light shined forth.....He said forgive, and by Faith forgiveness shines forth from our hearts because we believe in the One who said it. Our Lord.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Yes, in agreement, that forgiveness is mightily important. I'm just trying to point out that we are weak and God works within us from the moment we are born again. He perfects us and conforms us to the image of Christ. And part of that perfecting and conforming is in helping us to forgive others. I have worked with some people who have had some pretty horrendous experiences in their lives and they have not gotten to the point of forgiveness (yet). If they should pass from this lifetime before they have gotten to that point, I do not believe God will deliver them to the tormenters. Nor do I believe that God has not forgiven their trespasses.

Hi reneweddaybyday...Ii never looked at it like that before...Yes God starts working in us as soon as we are born again, He gives us a brand new heart, He knows forgiving others is not an instant thing, forgiveness has to be worked on, it`s very painful in some situations, i know this myself, we can pretend to forgive untill the memory hits us once again and we are back to the unforgivness...It`s a process that only God can do, but once He knows our hearts are willing to forgive, then the beauty begins, so God is not going to draw back from where He is at work on us if we die before we have truly forgive for He knows our was willing...xox...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

"He perfects us and conforms us to the image of Christ."

that Happens when we Believe Jesus Word is the Word of Life so when we see this

Matt. 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

and keep it within you because you have faith in the one who said it. Gods Word goes to work conforming the thinking and the result is that we forgive others.

The moment we are born again, the perfecting and conforming begins. And this “perfecting” and “conforming” continues from that moment and is never fully completed in this lifetime. It is not complete until we see Him face-to-face —-


1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


In this lifetime, we will always see through a glass darkly.


For some, their forgiving others might not happen until this ——>

Revelation 21:

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


<—— and until then, God is still working in the heart of the born again one to heal and bring that forgiveness.