Losing Salvation ?!

[Limey410v2]

What is the difference between unbelieving and lost....

unbelief is an act. lost is a state?

I'm not quite sure what your question is though, will you elaborate?

 

[Limey410v2]

If my mother in law gives me a bible I have received it. @jackson123

 

[RedeemedGift]

Jesus said this was eternal life......

[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

How can OSAS teachers claim eternal life is salvation? Salvation actually means : deliverance, perseverance and safety

Eternal life is the free gift of inheritance and given once you overcome and is a benefit of salvation/deliverance....not salvation itself....

salvation is compromised of many spiritual blessings, which are....the forgiveness of sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the deliverance from the powers of darkness.

Jesus says this in Rev 2.7 & Rev 3.5-6, 20-22

[SUP]7 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

[SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

Notice the conditions in these passages? One must overcome and then Jesus will...this is not one and you are done...this is covenant relationship language...you must and Jesus will based on what you do....Now notice Rev 3.21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

There is a propensity of certain people to place Jesus on a divinity stool, he himself rejected in Philippians 2. Jesus himself had to overcome to finish his race....he said above overcome as I also overcame...when one studies out how Jesus overcome, eternal security will actual lose its appeal and one will come to understand what covenant relationship is all about....and it's core is obedience to Father...

Heb 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Luke 22.39-44

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. [SUP]40 [/SUP]When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.


OSAS assumes and lump together the inheritance of eternal life as an instantly granted spiritual blessing of the New covenant when you are saved according to their doctrine....The Word says eternal is a free gift, but obtained by and through overcoming and enduring to the end....Just as Jesus did....their view of Jesus is more of a figure of future attainment reward, than the example of overcoming now...and the Bible shows us that Jesus was an example for us today not a future reward to be attained later...

OSAS also places faith into faith.....not faith in Jesus to work through you now and just later....

Who has overcome the world?

"For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 John 5:4-5)

What is the work of salvation?

"'Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.' Therefore they said to Him, 'What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent'." (John 6:27-29)

Faith in the one who said "it is finished" is what saves, sir. Don't get Christianity confused with the false religions of the world which are infused around and within man's efforts to reach some sort of pinnacle or paradise. Think of the believing thief. All he did was hang on a wretched cross for his own crime, but guess what? Jesus knew His believing heart, and for that he was justified in the eyes of God

What did Christ die for? Is He not the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world?

 

[Jackson123]

If my mother in law gives me a bible I have received it. @jackson123

Different contek my friend. If your mother give you Bible, you may recieve but may not believe.

If you mother preach the Bible to you, and you recieve, mean you believe.

 

[RedeemedGift]

The Devil was a liar from the beginning because he used the Word of God and turned it into a lie through his interpretation of it. He believed that there is a God but that is all. So do many "Unbelievers"

God bless

We know Jesus died for the sins of mankind alone.

 

[LoveGodForever]

We know Jesus died for the sins of mankind alone.

Absolutely and we are to live and have our life by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). No Word; No faith; No Life. Jesus is the Word

God bless

 

[Limey410v2]

Different contek my friend. If your mother give you Bible, you may recieve but may not believe.

If you mother preach the Bible to you, and you recieve, mean you believe.

You don't know my mother in law

 

[valiant]

is there any believe not from the heart?

John 2.23-25

 

[Jackson123]

You don't know my mother in law

she is my neighbors, friend.

 

[Jackson123]

John 2.23-25

it doesn't say there is believe not from the heart oN that verse.

 

[valiant]

Friend

If you say this, talk like it.

You do are you feel like.

???????????

Believe God's Word or do not believe it.

I believe it. Do you? john 6.39

I did not give you an interpretation I only share God's Word.

And I explained it to you.

You are putting your interpretation on it because you do not like what it says.

I am believing Jesus. You think what you like. But its quite clear what your 'friend' meant.

If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

lol now you think you are Jesus.

He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

.

yes john 6.39 one day you'll read it.

 

[mailmandan]

John 2.23-25

Also, John 8:31-59; Acts 8:13, 18-23; James 2:19.

 

[valiant]

it doesn't say there is believe not from the heart oN that verse.

read it again,

 

[Enow]

where does it say they were believers? They had tasted of the heavenly gift, but they had not partaken,....{/QUOTE]

No. It says they did partake of the Holy Ghost; they had received Him and thus have received eternal life.

Heb 6:4-8,

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

The verb means literally 'they had gone along with the Holy Spirit'. It does not say they had received Him.

Not true. Reconsider. If they had never received Him, then how can they crucify Jesus again to renew themselves unto repentance? So they had believed in Him and are saved.

This part of being burned is about what a saved believer builds on that foundation, because life has been received when the ground has received the rain and life has flourished, but briers & thorns are there as well. So the rain received that brought life is the foundation laid that can never be removed but what is burned away is what has been built on that foundation.

It specifically withholds the title of believer from them. They had tasted the word. They had not given it heart belief.,

Then it would not say in His words that the earth had received the rain where life has flourished from it. They are believers that had sown to the works of teh flesh from which briers & thorns has come.

This is why it is about going onto perfection because no saved believer can lay that foundation again when it can never be removed. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17

Where does it say they had fallen away from God? They had not 'become' unbelievers. They always were. Repentance without faith means they had come short. God had faced them up with their need. They had thought about it but they had finally refused. In cases where men had had such an opportunity they were not given another,. They had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Like the Pharisees were in danger of doing they had finally rejected the Holy Spirits pleading,

No. Hebrews 6th chapter is about how it is impossible to lay that foundation again even after they had fallen away from the faith, because though they believe not in Him any more, He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But they had never received it. They were land fit to be burned,

Mo.. no. The briers & thorns will be burned just as the wood, stubble and hay will be burned in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

Yes because they had come short of believing. They were always land fit to be burned, They did not later become it.

Then there would be no life given by the rain that had been received so your analogy is wrong.

Yes they were unbelievers. They had never truly believed.

Again, the reproof that they could not crucify Jesus Christ again after they had fallen away to renew themselves again means they are believers that have fallen away from the faith or had sown to the works of the flesh in living carnally.

They need to go before that throne of grace for help to repent because they have been bought with a price and sealed as His and thus Jesus Christ is in them always.. even in former believers in Christ are called to ask Him for help to see the truth to depart from even the iniquity of unbelief for whatever lie that has led them astray from their faith in Him.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

You miss the important point. They had experienced revival and had been 'almost there'. But then they had turned away. It happens often in revival,

I believe you are missing key points in that references that they had received the Holy Spirit & thus eternal life.

Heb 6:4-8,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is about how salvation can never be lost. this is about how the foundation can never be undone or removed.

BUT this is about how those who fall away should go to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for help to depart from iniquity and to keep them from all iniquity by trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd in finishing His work in them as they live their reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ as the just can only live by faith in Him & His words to us.

 

[Jackson123]

John 2.23-25

23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

where in the verse say there is believe not from heart?

 

[fredoheaven]

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] that believe to the saving of the soul.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To the Apostles, they were not of the losing salvation rather on they believed on the assurance of salvation.

God bless [/FONT]

 

[loveme1]

May none of us esteem ourselves so much to lay any burden upon another regarding Salvation.

Some will pose a question and based on the answer deem one saved or unsaved.

Run that race set before you looking to the Good Shepherd in all things... For He is the Bishop of your soul if you hear and follow.

Be Faithful unto the end and then you will be given your reward according to your works.

 

[valiant]

where does it say they were believers? They had tasted of the heavenly gift, but they had not partaken,....

N

o. It says they did partake of the Holy Ghost; they had received Him and thus have received eternal life.

Are you a Greek scholar? I am. It says metachous - went along with. They had gone along with Him, but not receive Him.

Heb 6:4-8,

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

you highlight the wrong verse. So you believe that a backslider cannot ever come back?

N

ot true. Reconsider. If they had never received Him, then how can they crucify Jesus again to renew themselves unto repentance? So they had believed in Him and are saved.

They were quite clearly NOT saved. They crucify Him again because He had already been crucified.

Repentance is not salvation, it is a preliminary stage.

This part of being burned is about what a saved believer builds on that foundation, because life has been received when the ground has received the rain and life has flourished, but briers & thorns are there as well.

there are two types of land, barren and fruitful. (unsaved and saved). the good land produces fruit.

So the rain received that brought life is the foundation laid that can never be removed but what is burned away is what has been built on that foundation.

you are mixing up Scriptures.

Then it would not say in His words that the earth had received the rain where life has flourished from it.

But it does. Good land (the saved) always produces fruit.

They are believers that had sown to the works of teh flesh from which briers & thorns has come.

lol you are all mixed up

This is why it is about going onto perfection because no saved believer can lay that foundation again when it can never be removed. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17

so he is secure

No. Hebrews 6th chapter is about how it is impossible to lay that foundation again even after they had fallen away from the faith, because though they believe not in Him any more, He still abides

.

trouble is Heb 6 doesn't say that. It does not mention falling away from faith, nor believing.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

which is why salvation, once received, is secure.

Mo.. no. The briers & thorns will be burned just as the wood, stubble and hay will be burned in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

but in 1 Cor 3 they are still saved. it is talking about a different thing.

Then there would be no life given by the rain that had been received so your analogy is wrong.

but life IS given, Guess who is wrong? and careless in interpretation

Again, the reproof that they could not crucify Jesus Christ again after they had fallen away to renew themselves again means they are believers that have fallen away from the faith or had sown to the works of the flesh in living carnally.

where does it say they were believers? You assume what you are supposed to be proving

They need to go before that throne of grace for help to repent because they have been bought with a price and sealed as His and thus Jesus Christ is in them always.. even in former believers in Christ are called to ask Him for help to see the truth to depart from even the iniquity of unbelief for whatever lie that has led them astray from their faith in Him.

But they CANNOT renew themselves again unto repentance

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

yes they are eternally secure.

[SUP]

20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

But all are saved

I believe you are missing key points in that references that they had received the Holy Spirit & thus eternal life.

You are reading in what is not there

Heb 6:4-8,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is about how salvation can never be lost. this is about how the foundation can never be undone or removed.

right at last.

BUT this is about how those who fall away should go to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for help to depart from iniquity and to keep them from all iniquity by trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd in finishing His work in them as they live their reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ as the just can only live by faith in Him & His words to us.

lol you've changed your position, you are mixed up.

 

[LoveGodForever]

1Co 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

 

[valiant]

23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

where in the verse say there is believe not from heart?

Jesus would not commit Himself to them because their 'belief' was not right. They had not believed from the heart. They believed because of miracles,