Not By Works
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One thing that amazes me is the simple truth that Jesus put forth when he said that MANY (plenteous in number) would come before his throne claiming to know him and then boasting of their works as their proof ticket into the kingdom....He states clearly that he never knew them which means they were never saved to begin with....a break down of their stance is exactly what the workers for push....they claim to know Jesus by faith and then push their works as the proof in the pudding....the problem is the root (salvation).....the bible is clear...it is faith alone that saves...when one adds to faith to acquire, keep or embellish the eternal salvation found in Christ by faith thru grace they in essence make the gospel void with no power to save........
Many will come before me saying....LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME.....what a tragic day for that group.....had they fully trusted Jesus instead of their works they would have entered the kingdom.....Faith saves eternally....to embellish faith to gain or keep salvation = a false gospel with no power to save Galatians 1 and 3!
Many will come before me saying....LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME.....what a tragic day for that group.....had they fully trusted Jesus instead of their works they would have entered the kingdom.....Faith saves eternally....to embellish faith to gain or keep salvation = a false gospel with no power to save Galatians 1 and 3!
Thank you. I have never quite made that honest confession, so I do now with you. It is amazing how much grace we need, but, as the prophet teaches, God's grace is fresh every morning; oh does this ever speak to my soul. Thank you, dear one, for all the edification, not just for me but more importantly for the Word..
If you bury the gold given you, that is your faith, it will only become soiled.
We must work to enter into His rest.
Mat 25:14 For it is as when a man, going into another country, called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one; to each according to his several ability; and he went on his journey.
Mat 25:16 Straightway he that received the five talents went and traded with them, and made other five talents.
Mat 25:17 In like manner he also that received the two gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that received the one went away and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 Now after a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and maketh a reckoning with them.
Mat 25:20 And he that received the five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: lo, I have gained other five talents.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will set thee over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 And he also that received the two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: lo, I have gained other two talents.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will set thee over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 And he also that had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou didst not sow, and gathering where thou didst not scatter;
Mat 25:25 and I was afraid, and went away and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, thou hast thine own.
Mat 25:26 But his lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I did not scatter;
Mat 25:27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back mine own with interest.
Mat 25:28 Take ye away therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him that hath the ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
We must work to enter into His rest.
Mat 25:14 For it is as when a man, going into another country, called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one; to each according to his several ability; and he went on his journey.
Mat 25:16 Straightway he that received the five talents went and traded with them, and made other five talents.
Mat 25:17 In like manner he also that received the two gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that received the one went away and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 Now after a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and maketh a reckoning with them.
Mat 25:20 And he that received the five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: lo, I have gained other five talents.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will set thee over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 And he also that received the two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: lo, I have gained other two talents.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will set thee over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 And he also that had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou didst not sow, and gathering where thou didst not scatter;
Mat 25:25 and I was afraid, and went away and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, thou hast thine own.
Mat 25:26 But his lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I did not scatter;
Mat 25:27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back mine own with interest.
Mat 25:28 Take ye away therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him that hath the ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
P
In Matthew 7, their problem was not the fact that they were trying to prove they had a relationship with Christ. For Christ himself speaks of how he will use works to determine who has a relationship with him through faith and, therefore, will go to the right with the sheep, and who doesn't have those works and will go to the left with the goats into hell. These are the works Christ will be looking for at the Judgement as evidence of your relationship with him:
The problem with the people in Matthew 7 is they will not have the works that Christ will be looking for:
Christ says it is only the one who "DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER" (vs.21 emphasis mine) will enter the kingdom of heaven. If you do not do the will of the father you go to the left with the goats and go to lake of fire. So you are making a BIG mistake by bashing works as a sign of salvation. A very BIG mistake. Works are very much the evidence that even Christ himself will be looking for at the Judgement to judge you and I as to whether we have the "work and the love" that "accompany salvation" (Hebews 6:9-10 NASB).
The danger to you in bashing works as evidence of salvation is you potentially lead "little ones who believe in (Jesus)" to find false comfort in a works-less, faithless relationship with Jesus that causes them to stumble, fall from their faith and go to the eternal fire (Matthew 18:6-9). That's a very, very serious offense. You should stop doing that and instead do what the author of Hebrews says to do:
Is the author teaching a works gospel and saying that we earn our salvation by our works? Of course not. But the church has been trained to always hear 'works' and 'salvation' in the same discussion as categorically and without exception an argument for a works gospel that can not save. So many people have been led astray by this false OSAS thinking.
Hopefully now you can see how foolish and misguided your argument is. And worse, how it sets you up to be guilty of leading young impressionable young believers in Christ into stumbling so as to go to the fiery hell (Matthew 18:6-9).
Works are what Christ is going to use to determine if you have the faith that justifies (the faith that loves/works--Galatians 5:6) and will, therefore, go to the right with the righteous into the kingdom of God, or whether you will be found to be a works-less, unbelieving, do-nothing goat and will go to the left and into the eternal fire.
35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ (Matthew 25:35-36 NASB)
The problem with the people in Matthew 7 is they will not have the works that Christ will be looking for:
"22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’"
Christ says it is only the one who "DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER" (vs.21 emphasis mine) will enter the kingdom of heaven. If you do not do the will of the father you go to the left with the goats and go to lake of fire. So you are making a BIG mistake by bashing works as a sign of salvation. A very BIG mistake. Works are very much the evidence that even Christ himself will be looking for at the Judgement to judge you and I as to whether we have the "work and the love" that "accompany salvation" (Hebews 6:9-10 NASB).
The danger to you in bashing works as evidence of salvation is you potentially lead "little ones who believe in (Jesus)" to find false comfort in a works-less, faithless relationship with Jesus that causes them to stumble, fall from their faith and go to the eternal fire (Matthew 18:6-9). That's a very, very serious offense. You should stop doing that and instead do what the author of Hebrews says to do:
"11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence (love and work--see context) so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6: NASB)
"24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another;and all the more as you see the day drawing near." (Hebrews 10:24-25 NASB)
"24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another;and all the more as you see the day drawing near." (Hebrews 10:24-25 NASB)
Is the author teaching a works gospel and saying that we earn our salvation by our works? Of course not. But the church has been trained to always hear 'works' and 'salvation' in the same discussion as categorically and without exception an argument for a works gospel that can not save. So many people have been led astray by this false OSAS thinking.
Hopefully now you can see how foolish and misguided your argument is. And worse, how it sets you up to be guilty of leading young impressionable young believers in Christ into stumbling so as to go to the fiery hell (Matthew 18:6-9).
Works are what Christ is going to use to determine if you have the faith that justifies (the faith that loves/works--Galatians 5:6) and will, therefore, go to the right with the righteous into the kingdom of God, or whether you will be found to be a works-less, unbelieving, do-nothing goat and will go to the left and into the eternal fire.
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LOL, grace without truth is like hope without substance.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6
What is obvious is that if you are hearing what "Paul 'states clearly' " then you are saved by your works since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
work
wərk/
noun
- 1.
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
P
Then PROVE that you have received this grace:
Is Paul teaching a works gospel here, that we earn our salvation by our works? Of course not. But the church seems only to be capable of hearing it that way. We've been indoctrinated to our own destruction. Many of us are going to get to the Judgment with nothing but an empty, works-less OSAS boast of grace expecting to enter into the kingdom of God but will instead be sent to hell with the goats. Not because works somehow earn salvation, but because works accompany salvation, and if you ain't got those works you show yourself to not be saved.
Hopefully, some here will hear the word of the Lord and will seek the faith that produces works that will usher them through the Judgment safely, and I will have not run in vain nor toiled in vain in this and other threads (see vs.16 above), and they will be my reward in the kingdom to come (1 Thessalonians 2:19). But, dcon, what's going to be your reward for telling believers that they don't have to have works to be saved (those works being the evidence of real saving faith) and they listen to you? I assure you, the people you help find comfort in a do-nothing, unbelieving, OSAS, 'faith without works' relationship with Christ will not be in the kingdom for them to be a reward to you. But it won't matter anyway because you will be guilty of tearing down and destroying the building of God and won't be in the kingdom either (1 Corinthians 3:17, Matthew 18:6-9).
Don't hate me for telling you the truth, folks. Just repent and seek mercy and forgiveness. Fall on your knees and find the true grace of God, and then you will rise up and do the things that people who really do have the grace of God's forgiveness in salvation do, proving that they really do have that grace of God's forgiveness:
"14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain. " (Philippians 2:14-16 NASB)
Is Paul teaching a works gospel here, that we earn our salvation by our works? Of course not. But the church seems only to be capable of hearing it that way. We've been indoctrinated to our own destruction. Many of us are going to get to the Judgment with nothing but an empty, works-less OSAS boast of grace expecting to enter into the kingdom of God but will instead be sent to hell with the goats. Not because works somehow earn salvation, but because works accompany salvation, and if you ain't got those works you show yourself to not be saved.
Hopefully, some here will hear the word of the Lord and will seek the faith that produces works that will usher them through the Judgment safely, and I will have not run in vain nor toiled in vain in this and other threads (see vs.16 above), and they will be my reward in the kingdom to come (1 Thessalonians 2:19). But, dcon, what's going to be your reward for telling believers that they don't have to have works to be saved (those works being the evidence of real saving faith) and they listen to you? I assure you, the people you help find comfort in a do-nothing, unbelieving, OSAS, 'faith without works' relationship with Christ will not be in the kingdom for them to be a reward to you. But it won't matter anyway because you will be guilty of tearing down and destroying the building of God and won't be in the kingdom either (1 Corinthians 3:17, Matthew 18:6-9).
Don't hate me for telling you the truth, folks. Just repent and seek mercy and forgiveness. Fall on your knees and find the true grace of God, and then you will rise up and do the things that people who really do have the grace of God's forgiveness in salvation do, proving that they really do have that grace of God's forgiveness:
"...her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." (Luke 7:47 NASB)
Who are you today? Someone who shows by your lack of love/work that you don't have the forgiveness of God in salvation, or are you someone who shows by your love/work how much you do indeed truly have the forgiveness of God in salvation?
All here might ask himself, "While the King is away, am I His faithful servant?" Avail yourelves, and He will give you His works, whether it be something as seemingly meaningless (so someothrs) as waiting for Him, works of prayer, of helping others, and all other works of God's love, He will provide to those willing.....
A
Now establish what faith is and what it means to believe, cuz you know some folks will tell you that too believe means to obey....would you agree or disagree with that definition of belief?
I disagree that believe means obey. Yes it is good that we obey God and yes we do need to learn how to live godly lives. However to believe means to trust and have faith in Jesus to save us.
Belief is not the same as obedience but adding to our faith will lead to obedience after we are saved. Before we are saved we need faith/trust in Jesus and His ability to save us.
I disagree that believe means obey. Yes it is good that we obey God and yes we do need to learn how to live godly lives. However to believe means to trust and have faith in Jesus to save us.
Belief is not the same as obedience but adding to our faith will lead to obedience after we are saved. Before we are saved we need faith/trust in Jesus and His ability to save us.
More long winded SDA propaganda. 
You are not fooling me for a second or any other genuine believers on CC. Numerous other people (including those who were former Sabbath-day observers for many years, which includes Ex-SDA'a on Christian Forums who are familiar with the arguments for and against it have been trying to reach you with the truth as well, but sadly, you stubbornly refuse to accept the truth.
As you have already been shown:
The entire Old Covenant ministry with its Levitical priesthood serving in the earthly sanctuary was also a copy and shadow of the priesthood of Christ who now serves in the heavenly sanctuary:
“They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven...But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is mediator is superior to the old one.” (Hebrews 8:4-6).
The earthly sanctuary of the Old Covenant was a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary in which Christ now serves.
Hebrews 9 gives us further details of what was included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary:
“Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary...which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant...and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:1-5).
The stone tablets of the covenant, which was the Ten Commandments, was included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary. The Ten Commandments in the earthly sanctuary was only a shadow of God's truth in the heavenly sanctuary.
Love is the fundamental truth of God's law in the heavenly sanctuary, and the Ten Commandments in the earthly sanctuary was only a shadow of that truth in the heavenly sanctuary. This is why love fulfills the fundamental truth of God's law.
So in Hebrews 9, the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments were included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary.
God rested on the seventh day of creation week because it was on that day that He ceased from His finished work. The seventh-day rest was later given to the Jews as a memorial to God's finished work.
The seventh-day rest, therefore, is only a memorial. It is not the reality. God's finished work is the reality. The seventh-day rest is only a memorial/shadow of God's finished work, and God's finished work with its memorial/shadow pointed forward to the finished work of Christ on the cross. This is why we now find true rest in Christ: “Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls.” (Matthew 11:28-29).
If you won't listen to former SDA's, then you certainly won't listen to anyone else. You have also been shown that your arguments are long and are not consistent and you keep contradicting yourself. - https://www.christianforums.com/thr...not-a-weekly-seventh-day-rest.8016620/page-18
I sincerely hope and pray that one day the SDA blinders will be removed from your eyes and you will finally accept the truth from God's Word. I will continue to pray for you.
Col 2:14-16 clearly teaches that the sabbath was abolished and nailed to cross!
The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church
You are not fooling me for a second or any other genuine believers on CC. Numerous other people (including those who were former Sabbath-day observers for many years, which includes Ex-SDA'a on Christian Forums who are familiar with the arguments for and against it have been trying to reach you with the truth as well, but sadly, you stubbornly refuse to accept the truth. As you have already been shown:
The entire Old Covenant ministry with its Levitical priesthood serving in the earthly sanctuary was also a copy and shadow of the priesthood of Christ who now serves in the heavenly sanctuary:
“They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven...But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is mediator is superior to the old one.” (Hebrews 8:4-6).
The earthly sanctuary of the Old Covenant was a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary in which Christ now serves.
Hebrews 9 gives us further details of what was included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary:
“Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary...which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant...and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:1-5).
The stone tablets of the covenant, which was the Ten Commandments, was included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary. The Ten Commandments in the earthly sanctuary was only a shadow of God's truth in the heavenly sanctuary.
Love is the fundamental truth of God's law in the heavenly sanctuary, and the Ten Commandments in the earthly sanctuary was only a shadow of that truth in the heavenly sanctuary. This is why love fulfills the fundamental truth of God's law.
So in Hebrews 9, the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments were included in the copy and shadow of the earthly sanctuary.
God rested on the seventh day of creation week because it was on that day that He ceased from His finished work. The seventh-day rest was later given to the Jews as a memorial to God's finished work.
The seventh-day rest, therefore, is only a memorial. It is not the reality. God's finished work is the reality. The seventh-day rest is only a memorial/shadow of God's finished work, and God's finished work with its memorial/shadow pointed forward to the finished work of Christ on the cross. This is why we now find true rest in Christ: “Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls.” (Matthew 11:28-29).
If you won't listen to former SDA's, then you certainly won't listen to anyone else. You have also been shown that your arguments are long and are not consistent and you keep contradicting yourself. - https://www.christianforums.com/thr...not-a-weekly-seventh-day-rest.8016620/page-18
I sincerely hope and pray that one day the SDA blinders will be removed from your eyes and you will finally accept the truth from God's Word. I will continue to pray for you.
Col 2:14-16 clearly teaches that the sabbath was abolished and nailed to cross!
The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church
You may be right and the reason I ask certain people what their answer would be to that question in that hypothetical situation is for them to demonstrate by their answer EXACTLY what they have truly placed their faith in/are trusting in to receive eternal life, yet the person I recently asked that question to DODGED answering my question, which says a lot.
A
How does one work out their salvation?
Ph 2
12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
*****
I believe it is by learning to discern good and evil...good doctrines from God and evil doctrines that lead away from God.
For example it is good doctrine to forgive others because God forgave us even when we are unworthy.
It is good doctrine to give God your anger before the sun sets.
It is good doctrine to go the extra mile when someone forces you to walk one with them.
It is good doctrine to turn the other cheek....to love others as Jesus loves us...
There is more that the Holy spirit reveals to us as we walk with Him, but I find it odd when people are against discerning the difference between good and bad doctrine.
For me that is part of "working out your salvation". Another is to examine our hearts and minds and tearing down spiritual strongholds or beliefs we have that war against God's knowledge.
A common spiritual stronghold is that we earn the blessings God gives us....it a lie.
God blesses us because of His love and grace and we don't deserve His many blessings but God let's the sun shine on both the just and unjust.
It is pride to believe God owes us anything or that we can trade good works for salvation.
God doesn't owe us. He gives because He loves us. We need to learn to give to others...not just those who "earn " our love by loving us, but love even those who hate us.
Ph 2
12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
*****
I believe it is by learning to discern good and evil...good doctrines from God and evil doctrines that lead away from God.
For example it is good doctrine to forgive others because God forgave us even when we are unworthy.
It is good doctrine to give God your anger before the sun sets.
It is good doctrine to go the extra mile when someone forces you to walk one with them.
It is good doctrine to turn the other cheek....to love others as Jesus loves us...
There is more that the Holy spirit reveals to us as we walk with Him, but I find it odd when people are against discerning the difference between good and bad doctrine.
For me that is part of "working out your salvation". Another is to examine our hearts and minds and tearing down spiritual strongholds or beliefs we have that war against God's knowledge.
A common spiritual stronghold is that we earn the blessings God gives us....it a lie.
God blesses us because of His love and grace and we don't deserve His many blessings but God let's the sun shine on both the just and unjust.
It is pride to believe God owes us anything or that we can trade good works for salvation.
God doesn't owe us. He gives because He loves us. We need to learn to give to others...not just those who "earn " our love by loving us, but love even those who hate us.