The Trinity Discussion

[trofimus]

The begotten one is not God, he is the image of the one God, eternally begotten, divined ? Yes ! As God was not begotten of anyone, He just was but the begotten one was begotten of someone.

You did not even start to define your view and you are contradicting Scriptures already.

"But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever'." (Heb 1:8)

So, please, think it through and give us some answers. You attack the Trinity, but your explanations do not hold at all.

 

[jaybird88]

Dagallen your posts sound like Arianism, this heresy was tackled by the early church and thank God they won. This early church, you would most likely call "pagan" or pagan influenced.


Meet my friend St Nicholas who punched Arius during the council:

what works did Arius write that made him a heretic, what were his sources, ohh thats right, his accusers burned all that stuff. nothing fishy about that.
funny how they would always burn the works of these heretics, yet never have a problem with greek/roman pagan statues on every corner.

 

[Bogadile]

The begotten one is not God, he is the image of the one God, eternally begotten, divined ? Yes ! As God was not begotten of anyone, He just was but the begotten one was begotten of someone.

So the Son is eternally begotten, but is still not God? How can something be eternally begotten if it is a mere created being?

Jesus is either The Creator or created.
If Jesus was created, then are you not worshiping a created being. Idolatry???

 

[Bogadile]

what works did Arius write that made him a heretic, what were his sources, ohh thats right, his accusers burned all that stuff. nothing fishy about that.
funny how they would always burn the works of these heretics, yet never have a problem with greek/roman pagan statues on every corner.

You are siding with enemies of Orthodox Christianity. Great to know where you stand.

Arius was teaching the same heresy as the modern day JWs

 

[trofimus]

what works did Arius write that made him a heretic, what were his sources, ohh thats right, his accusers burned all that stuff. nothing fishy about that.
funny how they would always burn the works of these heretics, yet never have a problem with greek/roman pagan statues on every corner.

Ok, whatever, but can you properly and fully define your view of God, Jesus and the HOly Spirit? View that will not contradict Scriptures?

 

[Dagallen]

I am not following you. I have no idea what your reasoning is, regarding history, you never say anything clearly.

Can you return to your creed and answer my questions:

Explain a difference between God and divined.

Also, explain why Bible says that Christ is God.

Also, explain how the one begotten of God differes from God in His nature.

When it comes to history, you can't follow me because you give the appearance that you haven't taken the time to study history, so I won't waste my time on history you don't know. The word God is a title of a position of an divined power or authority, therefore there is no differences between the title and the divined power or authority, as the nature of both is divined, how can the begotten one be God, as God is begotten of no one ? How can the begotten one be God, can God be sent ? If the begotten one was God, why did he talk to himself, why did he pray to himself, if the begotten was God, why did he say he could nothing of himself ? If he was God, he could do anything, if he was God, he would have known all things.

 

[Dagallen]

So the Son is eternally begotten, but is still not God? How can something be eternally begotten if it is a mere created being?

Jesus is either The Creator or created.
If Jesus was created, then are you not worshiping a created being. Idolatry???

The flesh of Jesus was created, his flesh was of his world, his spirit was not created, his spirit was not of this world, his spirit was sent into the world and took on flesh form, his spirit was raised up, his flesh died, his spirit went back to God who gave it.

 

[trofimus]

When it comes to history, you can't follow me because you give the appearance that you haven't taken the time to study history, so I won't waste my time on history you don't know. The word God is a title of a position of an divined power or authority, therefore there is no differences between the title and the divined power or authority, as the nature of both is divined, how can the begotten one be God, as God is begotten of no one ? How can the begotten one be God, can God be sent ? If the begotten one was God, why did he talk to himself, why did he pray to himself, if the begotten was God, why did he say he could nothing of himself ? If he was God, he could do anything, if he was God, he would have known all things.

I have noticed several times that whenever you should explain or answer something, you resort to giving questions... its very hard to get any facts or firm answers from you, sadly.

 

[valiant]

The flesh of Jesus was created, his flesh was of his world, his spirit was not created,

His body was born of Mary. His Spirit was His eternally.

his spirit was not of this world, his spirit was sent into the world and took on flesh form,

His Spirit was He Himself

his spirit was raised up, his flesh died,

so you don't believe His body was raised from the dead? Enough said,

his spirit went back to God who gave it.

That is spoken of ordinary men. But the Son was not given His Spirit, He was His Spirit eternally.

 

[Dagallen]

I have noticed several times that whenever you should explain or answer something, you resort to giving questions... its very hard to get any facts or firm answers from you, sadly.

If you were looking for answers that would be great, however I still believe your intent is to destroy, I must say that you are not as foolish as others has been on here, perhaps you want to grow in understanding and yet maybe you are just more clever than others, perhaps you are a clever foot soldier.

 

[Dagallen]

His body was born of Mary. His Spirit was His eternally.





His Spirit was He Himself




so you don't believe His body was raised from the dead? Enough said,


That is spoken of ordinary men. But the Son was not given His Spirit, He was His Spirit eternally.

The foot soldier returns, did I say his body wasn't raise from dead ? I did not say either or ! So don't try to put words into my mouth, you really should stop assuming.

 

[valiant]

When it comes to history, you can't follow me because you give the appearance that you haven't taken the time to study history, so I won't waste my time on history you don't know.

My specialist study for my degree was early church history. But I don't follow your history, It is nonsense

The word God is a title of a position of an divined power or authority, therefore there is no differences between the title and the divined power or authority, as the nature of both is divined, how can the begotten one be God, as God is begotten of no one ?

The Son was eternally begotten of the Father. Therefore both Father and Son are eternal. Jesus is described as 'God only begotten'.

How can the begotten one be God, can God be sent ?

Yes, by God.

If the begotten one was God, why did he talk to himself, why did he pray to himself,

It as in His manhood that He prayed to His Father

if the begotten was God, why did he say he could nothing of himself ? I

Because no member of the Triune God can do anything by Himself. He was saying that His Father and He worked as one. God works with God.

If he was God, he could do anything,

He could.

If he was God, he would have known all things.

Except when He deliberately emptied Himself.

 

[valiant]

, did I say his body wasn't raise from dead ? I did not say either or ! So don't try to put words into my mouth, you really should stop assuming.

That was the impression you gave. I quote.

'his flesh died, his spirit went back to God who gave it. '

 

[trofimus]

If you were looking for answers that would be great, however I still believe your intent is to destroy, I must say that you are not as foolish as others has been on here, perhaps you want to grow in understanding and yet maybe you are just more clever than others, perhaps you are a clever foot soldier.

One thing is to attack what is believed. You do it.

On the other hand, I have no idea what alternative do you have instead of Trinity. What you presented contradicted Scriptures from the beginning.

So, do you have any holding alternative that has meaning or do you just do not like the Trinity concept, but have nothing instead of it?

For example, you started with "the Son is not God", which is against the Bible.

 

[Dagallen]

One thing is to attack what is believed. You do it.

On the other hand, I have no idea what alternative do you have instead of Trinity. What you presented contradicted Scriptures from the beginning.

So, do you have any holding alternative that has meaning or do you just do not like the Trinity concept, but have nothing instead of it?

For example, you started with "the Son is not God", which is against the Bible.

Where does scriptures record, Jesus saying, I am God ? It doesn't ! Some say because Jesus said, I am, that he was saying he was God but is that the case ? John 14:24 and the word which you hear is not mine ( so when he said I am, those words was not his own words, so who's words did he speak ) but the Father's which sent me. ( does scriptures teach that Jesus is the Father himself ? No!
Therefore his Father is the ( I am ) ( when he said, the word which you hear is not mine, did he lie ? No !

 

[Dagallen]

One thing is to attack what is believed. You do it.

On the other hand, I have no idea what alternative do you have instead of Trinity. What you presented contradicted Scriptures from the beginning.

So, do you have any holding alternative that has meaning or do you just do not like the Trinity concept, but have nothing instead of it?

For example, you started with "the Son is not God", which is against the Bible.

Where does scriptures record, Jesus saying, I am God ? It doesn't ! Some say because Jesus said, I am, that he was saying he was God but is that the case ? John 14:24 and the word which you hear is not mine ( so when he said I am, those words was not his own words, so who's words did he speak ) but the Father's which sent me. ( does scriptures teach that Jesus is the Father himself ? No!
Therefore his Father is the ( I am ) ( when he said, the word which you hear is not mine, did he lie ? No !

 

[Dagallen]

One thing is to attack what is believed. You do it.

On the other hand, I have no idea what alternative do you have instead of Trinity. What you presented contradicted Scriptures from the beginning.

So, do you have any holding alternative that has meaning or do you just do not like the Trinity concept, but have nothing instead of it?

For example, you started with "the Son is not God", which is against the Bible.

I do not seek to destroy anyone, my intent to challenge what is posted, to get other to step outside the box thinking, to think with an open mind not a controlled mind. One must read scriptures and let the scriptures walk them back in history, that they may walk through history to where they are but most study scriptures but don't study the historical parts, to study one but not the other is foolish.

 

[valiant]

Where does scriptures record, Jesus saying, I am God ?

Before Abraham was, I AM. cf Exodus 3.

Jesus was slowly unfolding the fact that He was God, but He wanted it to dawn on the heart. He did not want to be followed as a God who had come to physically deliver the Jews.,

But Thomas recognised that He was Lord and God, as Peter had before him.

 

[valiant]

I do not seek to destroy anyone, my intent to challenge what is posted, to get other to step outside the box thinking, to think with an open mind not a controlled mind. One must read scriptures and let the scriptures walk them back in history, that they may walk through history to where they are but most study scriptures but don't study the historical parts, to study one but not the other is foolish.

But you talk as a blind man. As one whose heart is darkened by Satan (2 Cor 4.4-6). The light has not shone through.

 

[Dagallen]

Before Abraham was, I AM. cf Exodus 3.

Jesus was slowly unfolding the fact that He was God, but He wanted it to dawn on the heart. He did not want to be followed as a God who had come to physically deliver the Jews.,

But Thomas recognised that He was Lord and God, as Peter had before him.

Christ makes clear of who's words he spoke but I guess you dont believe or accept the truth, the word you hear is not mine, did he lie ?