Sabbath

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FeedtheMachine

Guest
The 10 commandments are part of the Law. Paul himself said it was unless 'coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting."

Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."




How do we live now in the New Covenant if the Christian has died to the law of Moses, been released from the law and not under the law but under grace now?

We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.

People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

People often say "Does that mean we can now kill people? Does that mean we can now steal?

The word "law" means "principle, rule, instruction".

We do have laws in the New Covenant.

They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.
Jesus fulfilled the law.

The law ( which the 10 commandments were a part of ) was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us..
Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
I am really not trying to debate or argue, just asking a question.

I understand what you are saying, but I cannot understand how the Commandments (written in stone by God) and the laws of Moses are one and the same law. If the commandments / law no longer apply to us isn't Paul wrong for teaching the commandments to the gentiles in verses like below? He doesn't call it "the law", but he is essentially teaching Christians that these are the standards to live by?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5-9, Ephesians 6:1-2
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I am really not trying to debate or argue, just asking a question.

I understand what you are saying, but I cannot understand how the Commandments (written in stone by God) and the laws of Moses are one and the same law. If the commandments / law no longer apply to us isn't Paul wrong for teaching the commandments to the gentiles in verses like below? He doesn't call it "the law", but he is essentially teaching Christians that these are the standards to live by?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5-9, Ephesians 6:1-2

I understand. We have been religiously taught about the law of Moses and the 10 commandments but they are all shadows of Christ Himself.

Get this wrong and we end up with a religion that actually replaces Christ Himself. We live by Christ Himself now - we are joined as one spirit with Him.

We have died to the law of Moses ( which the 10 commandments are a part of ) "so that" we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. Romans 7:4-6



The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness."
This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]
how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63

I understand. We have been religiously taught about the law of Moses and the 10 commandments but they are all shadows of Christ Himself.

Get this wrong and we end up with a religion that actually replaces Christ Himself. We live by Christ Himself now - we are joined as one spirit with Him.

We have died to the law of Moses ( which the 10 commandments are a part of ) "so that" we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. Romans 7:4-6



The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness."
This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]
how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.

Just a polite reminder that it is the Messiah Himself who teaches us to Keep the Commandments even the least one... so the idea it replaces Him is ridiculous... it is adhering to His Testimony.. you can continue with your fantasy but Keep it real and True according to the Messiah.

You are so far gone with your fantasy and theology that you liken GOD's law to an x-ray machine... You should fear GOD first and foremost...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Just a polite reminder that it is the Messiah Himself who teaches us to Keep the Commandments even the least one... so the idea it replaces Him is ridiculous... it is adhering to His Testimony.. you can continue with your fantasy but Keep it real and True according to the Messiah.

You are so far gone with your fantasy and theology that you liken GOD's law to an x-ray machine... You should fear GOD first and foremost...
The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

Matthew 5:48 [FONT=&quot]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[/FONT]
That is the conclusion of what is required of you by the law. You've probably determined you need help with that by now.

The law shows that we are not perfect and we need help. That is how we KNOW it is not by our works that we keep the law.


So if the law is not kept by works then how is it kept?

Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Romans 9:30-32
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Galatians 5:18-23
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It should be fairly obvious to the Christian that our work at the law is not beneficial to us in any way, except to puff us up with pride at our "knowledge".

If we were honest with each other and with ourselves we would agree that the only thing(s) worthwhile to God and to ourselves were given to us by God Himself.

Why not just abide in that instead of trying to push Him aside and do your own work at your own understanding of His Spiritual Law? The Lord Jesus will not cause us to be ashamed.[/FONT]
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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I am really not trying to debate or argue, just asking a question.

I understand what you are saying, but I cannot understand how the Commandments (written in stone by God) and the laws of Moses are one and the same law. If the commandments / law no longer apply to us isn't Paul wrong for teaching the commandments to the gentiles in verses like below? He doesn't call it "the law", but he is essentially teaching Christians that these are the standards to live by?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5-9, Ephesians 6:1-2
Paul, taught this standard

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

this includes the ten.



in particular situations, with particular churches, Paul gave particular instructions

but they all lead up to the same lifestyle
love your neighbor as yourself
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest

It should be fairly obvious to the Christian that our work at the law is not beneficial to us in any way, except to puff us up with pride at our "knowledge".
Is working at the law always for our own gain (to puff us up with pride)? Can this not be done for the sole purpose of loving God? "If you love Me, obey my commandments?"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Just a polite reminder that it is the Messiah Himself who teaches us to Keep the Commandments even the least one...
exactly!
including the commands about the temple and priests.

the way that you fulfill one is the way you must fulfill them all!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
MARK 1:44 and said to him, “See you say nothing to anybody, but go show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing the things which Moses commanded, for a testimony to them.”


when we recover from a skin disease, we are told to show the priest.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That is the conclusion of what is required of you by the law. You've probably determined you need help with that by now.

The law shows that we are not perfect and we need help. That is how we KNOW it is not by our works that we keep the law.


So if the law is not kept by works then how is it kept?

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Romans 9:30-32

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Galatians 5:18-23

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It should be fairly obvious to the Christian that our work at the law is not beneficial to us in any way, except to puff us up with pride at our "knowledge".

If we were honest with each other and with ourselves we would agree that the only thing(s) worthwhile to God and to ourselves were given to us by God Himself.

Why not just abide in that instead of trying to push Him aside and do your own work at your own understanding of His Spiritual Law? The Lord Jesus will not cause us to be ashamed.
Your late Grandpa.. was wondering when you would show up...

I'm not pushing the Messiah aside my dear.. deep down I think you know that.

You know I love all the quotes you share and that none are against what I share.. with the correct understanding.

The Keeping of the Commandments is beneficial because the Messiah Teaches us to...

Those that Love GOD keep them..

We have spoke much you liken me to a Pharisee and I liken you to someone who had not made his house on good foundation...

If you could go and ask GOD if you are to Keep His Commandments you would do well.

The Grace of GOD sets us at liberty and what we do with our liberty proves us Faithful or unfaithful Servants... Did we Hear and Keep His Testimony? Or did we not believe and instead decided to be unbelievers.


Anyhow, glad to see you.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
exactly!
including the commands about the temple and priests.

the way that you fulfill one is the way you must fulfill them all!

No my friend you need to learn to see that the High Priest writes the 10 on our hearts... love is given and shown so that we can love and worship in Spirit and Truth our Heavnly Father.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
MARK 1:44 and said to him, “See you say nothing to anybody, but go show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing the things which Moses commanded, for a testimony to them.”


when we recover from a skin disease, we are told to show the priest.
Good News we have a New Testament.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
Paul, taught this standard

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

this includes the ten.



in particular situations, with particular churches, Paul gave particular instructions

but they all lead up to the same lifestyle
love your neighbor as yourself

That is the second which is like the First.. it is affirming and not contrary to what the Messiah taught.

Like we can not say we love GOD if we love not one and other.. The Royal law is to be kept.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
Just to let you know I love you all even if we are at odds... I would not share the Truth for any reason other than for His Glory and the Salvation of man.

i am the least and why GOD chose me only He knows.. but I have to continue until called.


Peace and Blessings.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
Because of Jesus Christ having fulfilled teh law and the prphets, so we, who believe Him, are considered clean, without the guilt of our breaking the laws.

None of the above cancels out the law having been on stone, but now engraved on our inward parts, on the flesh tablets of our hearts, from being just as valid as ever.

Anyone who believes Jesus Christ knows which laws are guided by love and which laws are fulfilled, and which laws do not contin mercy.

All of the discussion on believing Jesus christ is very important, but all discussion of whether or not we should obey Him is ridiculous.

Anyone thinking because he or she has received the grace of God, yet believes obedience is wrong is deaf dumb and blind.

Your heart knows when you have reeived faith, hope and love that we are to obey our Father. Unhappily many do not understand that the Father and the Son are the saem, even with witnesses such as Isaiah, and God Himself.

All who read all of the W·ord know.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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I cannot understand how the Commandments (written in stone by God) and the laws of Moses are one and the same law.
The law Is perfect but man was carnal.The only way man could be In relationship with GOD was to fulfill the law perfectly and only GOD In CHRIST could do that.

That's grace.

Whosoever believes In the WORD of GOD shall have Eternal Life.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way or in the Keeping of feasts or in showing ourselves to the priest when we are healed all of these things are a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest which is found in Christ Himself )

I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.

John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus

If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”

In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.

Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.

But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.

Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.

"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.

It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.

How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.

I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."

Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.

A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.

What are the commands of Jesus?

The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”

They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.

But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.

If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:

“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)

And here’s the second:

Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)

How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:

“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)

What does it mean to keep His commands?

Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:

“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)

How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)

Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:

“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”

If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.

So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!

When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!

Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.

That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!

Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
1,803
113
Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way or in the Keeping of feasts or in showing ourselves to the priest when we are healed all of these things are a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest which is found in Christ Himself )

I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.

John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus

If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”

In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.

Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.

But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.

Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.

"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.

It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.

How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.

I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."

Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.

A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.

What are the commands of Jesus?

The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”

They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.

But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.

If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:

“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)

And here’s the second:

Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)

How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:

“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)

What does it mean to keep His commands?

Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:

“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)

How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)

Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:

“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”

If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.

So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!

When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!

Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.

That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!

Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Grace777x70 again.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Is working at the law always for our own gain (to puff us up with pride)? Can this not be done for the sole purpose of loving God? "If you love Me, obey my commandments?"
Are you so foolish???

Having started in the Spirit are you perfected by the flesh?

I suppose someone who has not started in the Spirit would ask "Can we not continue our work of the flesh"? But it really is not profitable in light of the New Testament.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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Grandpa........

Read all below. Perhaps you will unerstand.



ok the New Testament

-no good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped
by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs
that he taught to others.


after Acts 13, Acts 26:7 (KJV)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

Romans 9:4
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel


1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

(Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


3. Paul called God's law holy. (Romans 7:12)

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.


8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,


10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.

(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.

(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,


14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.

(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".

Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

- those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Your late Grandpa.. was wondering when you would show up...

I'm not pushing the Messiah aside my dear.. deep down I think you know that.

You know I love all the quotes you share and that none are against what I share.. with the correct understanding.

The Keeping of the Commandments is beneficial because the Messiah Teaches us to...

Those that Love GOD keep them..

We have spoke much you liken me to a Pharisee and I liken you to someone who had not made his house on good foundation...

If you could go and ask GOD if you are to Keep His Commandments you would do well.

The Grace of GOD sets us at liberty and what we do with our liberty proves us Faithful or unfaithful Servants... Did we Hear and Keep His Testimony? Or did we not believe and instead decided to be unbelievers.


Anyhow, glad to see you.
I definitely think you are a believer.

I just think your own understanding is what prevents you from coming to Christ and receiving Rest.

You can't receive Rest if you think you must work. That's why the Lord says unless we come to Him as children we can't enter into His Kingdom.

You haven't yet come to the understanding that you cannot keep His Law. That's why the scripture says you must be doers and not hearers only.

Be Perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. I really didn't have to go that deep into Matthew 5 before I hit my wall... He had me at 'if you look at a woman to lust after her'


The Testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ is that He Saved(s) us apart from our own work and our own understanding, even though we were sinners and enemies before hand.

Unbelievers are those who do not believe that He can give them Rest and they must continue to work at the law in their own understanding and strength, just like the children of rebellion before them.

The requirement for us is the same as was for them, believe in the Provision and Grace of the Lord. I honestly think that you do believe in the Provision and Grace of the Lord. You just don't understand that you push Him aside when you insist on your own work at the law.

Galatians 5:4-5
[FONT=&quot]4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

You know what is really strange? We can't just show each other truths that are in scripture. We can't give each other understanding, even though we read the same bible.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


All of our minds were blinded at some point. We all thought (think) we were supposed to work at the law. And that is how it brought us to Christ. We found out we couldn't do it. Only those with the vail over their minds still think they are required to work at the law.

And thus, when we turn to the Lord, the vail is taken away, rest is given, we are no longer under the law...[/FONT]