Sabbath

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Outward circumcision is a sign of the circumcision of the heart of the believer. Not the law of Moses but the law of Elohim.
So many are circumcised outwardly and yet they do not Love God inwardly. It is of no profit.

Only those that believe the Testimony of the Messiah the New Testament are born of the Holy Spirit allowing them to worship Heavenly Father in Spirit and Truth are circumcised of the heart.


Even the Messiah states the law of Moses:

Luke 24


44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.



Obviously you are free to circumcise outwardly.. but do not make it a requirement upon others because we have New wine and it is better and it is Heavenly Fathers New Covenant with His children.

The just shall live by Faith.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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I taste the New wine and know it is better.. but also know all things came to pass for the New Covenant through the Old so there is no despise.

Peter knew the Words of the Messiah gave eternal life and the Messiah teaches us Love and Truth.

Do you believe outward circumcision and all food requirements are necessary?

Is is it that you believe the Messiah came to teach you how to keep the law of Moses?
Abraham believed first Elohim, then was circumcised. So it is in Messiah, the believer who hungers for righteousness will be filled. The outer expression of faith like zitzit, beard, modest clothes, etc. Are a fruit of the Spirit. Yes all good things are yet to see that their hearts are circumcised they must agree with Elohim even if they are yet to understand.
What else will flow from Zion in the thousand year reign of Messiah? Torah... In that word you have known it as law however in Messiah especially it is better understood as instruction. It is true we are susceptible to the curse of the law if we know it, the thing is everyone alive knows it at least in part and agrees with it, except for when they don't and this is surely a bad thing because a person who has a circumcised heart doesn't disagree with Elohim or even the smallest command.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Abraham believed first Elohim, then was circumcised. So it is in Messiah, the believer who hungers for righteousness will be filled. The outer expression of faith like zitzit, beard, modest clothes, etc. Are a fruit of the Spirit. Yes all good things are yet to see that their hearts are circumcised they must agree with Elohim even if they are yet to understand.
What else will flow from Zion in the thousand year reign of Messiah? Torah... In that word you have known it as law however in Messiah especially it is better understood as instruction. It is true we are susceptible to the curse of the law if we know it, the thing is everyone alive knows it at least in part and agrees with it, except for when they don't and this is surely a bad thing because a person who has a circumcised heart doesn't disagree with Elohim or even the smallest command.


The Messiah gave instruction through His Testimony.. It is the New Covenant where the Just shall live by Faith... Faith of every word out of the mouth of Yahshua our Messiah.

The Messiah came in to the world through the Old Testament.. as our Saviour from GOD.

i don't offend at the word law.... GOD's law written on our heart by Faith in the Messiah.

Do you accept Paul's writings? He speak against circumcision much.. how do you recieve this?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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John... I'm interested and not seeking to accuse you regarding Paul's writings.. I wanted to know how they fit in with your belief.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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John... I'm interested and not seeking to accuse you regarding Paul's writings.. I wanted to know how they fit in with your belief.
I don't believe anything I have said to go against Shauls teachings. I wouldn't encourage a new convert to get circumcised other than to show themselves approved of by the Father through the word, as well as by the Faith in Messiah. Most see this truth on the left or right side of an issue, when the truth rests somewhere in the middle. Circumcision of the flesh as such has come up in the ministry of the Righteousness of Messiah in my time with a fellow believer in Yahshua. We concluded our studies in the word and matters with regard to Talmudic interpretation as well as Shauls teaching in the Eastern Aramaic renewed covenant. Outward circumcision is what is important, however if you are lead to by the Spirit it may be beneficial for you. There are many interesting covenants and things like sexual purity connected to the practice. The ability to sit at the Master's table however is solely dependant on the circumcised heart. On the other hand conversion of a believer in the Messiah to Jewish Religion would be wrong. Even if the believer is circumcised they nullify the law to perform Brit Milah and bring blood through needle pric. Why it says not to do this in Torah to cut yourself like the nations, besides rejecting the Messiah and His authority as well as possibly bringing the curses on ourselves. There is still more but that's a lot for now.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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I don't believe anything I have said to go against Shauls teachings. I wouldn't encourage a new convert to get circumcised other than to show themselves approved of by the Father through the word, as well as by the Faith in Messiah. Most see this truth on the left or right side of an issue, when the truth rests somewhere in the middle. Circumcision of the flesh as such has come up in the ministry of the Righteousness of Messiah in my time with a fellow believer in Yahshua. We concluded our studies in the word and matters with regard to Talmudic interpretation as well as Shauls teaching in the Eastern Aramaic renewed covenant. Outward circumcision is what is important, however if you are lead to by the Spirit it may be beneficial for you. There are many interesting covenants and things like sexual purity connected to the practice. The ability to sit at the Master's table however is solely dependant on the circumcised heart. On the other hand conversion of a believer in the Messiah to Jewish Religion would be wrong. Even if the believer is circumcised they nullify the law to perform Brit Milah and bring blood through needle pric. Why it says not to do this in Torah to cut yourself like the nations, besides rejecting the Messiah and His authority as well as possibly bringing the curses on ourselves. There is still more but that's a lot for now.

What made you conclude outward circumcision was what is important?

Talmudic interpretation.. is that the oral law?

Do do you not think you are trying to revive the dead husband rather than be Faithful to the New?

Did the Messiah teach us to be circumcised outwardly through His New Testament or that we need to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit to enter the Kingdom of GOD?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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A renewed Covenant? There is Old wine and there is New wine.... I'm not sure you prefer the New wine.
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." - John 14:21

I have a few questions. So much time and energy being put into arguments / debates such as this. Does the Bible say specifically that the Sabbath has been changed for Christians (and where can I find this in my Bible)? Why spend so much time arguing about something like this when God says that those who love Him will obey and keep His commandments? Shouldn't we then be asking ourselves if we love Him enough to follow His will? Should we also not be asking ourselves why we spend so much of our time and effort in supporting why the Saturday Sabbath is no longer applicable to us? Did Jesus keep the Saturday Sabbath and if so why was it "good enough" for Him, but apparently not "good enough" for us? Does the keeping of the Sabbath Commandment influence our salvation or our rewards? Are the Ten Commandments individual Commandments or are do they make up one law? If it is one law and we are freed from the law does that mean we are free from the other nine too?

John says that the commandments should not be a burden to us. If we love God we will joyfully keep His commandments. When I read replies on a post like this, I cannot help but feel as if we are burdening ourselves.

Not looking for an argument or a debate. Just asking.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." - John 14:21

I have a few questions. So much time and energy being put into arguments / debates such as this. Does the Bible say specifically that the Sabbath has been changed for Christians (and where can I find this in my Bible)? Why spend so much time arguing about something like this when God says that those who love Him will obey and keep His commandments? Shouldn't we then be asking ourselves if we love Him enough to follow His will? Should we also not be asking ourselves why we spend so much of our time and effort in supporting why the Saturday Sabbath is no longer applicable to us? Did Jesus keep the Saturday Sabbath and if so why was it "good enough" for Him, but apparently not "good enough" for us? Does the keeping of the Sabbath Commandment influence our salvation or our rewards? Are the Ten Commandments individual Commandments or are do they make up one law? If it is one law and we are freed from the law does that mean we are free from the other nine too?

John says that the commandments should not be a burden to us. If we love God we will joyfully keep His commandments. When I read replies on a post like this, I cannot help but feel as if we are burdening ourselves.

Not looking for an argument or a debate. Just asking.
Well written my friend... Glory to Heavenly Father and our Messiah.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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We must learn that the Messiah teaches us to Keep the Commandments even to the least...

The Old Testament was the 10 Commandments of GOD and the law of Moses.

The New Testament is the 10 Commandments of GOD and the Testimony of the Messiah.. Through His Testimony we are taught the Royal law that fulfils the 10 Commandments... The Greatest Commandment of all and the second like it... what Commandment is not Kept if we Love GOD truly and our neighbour..

The Just shall live by Faith.

It seems like those married to the dead husband are trying to creep in and bewitch people... may we be Faithful to our Husband and hold fast.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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What made you conclude outward circumcision was what is important?

Talmudic interpretation.. is that the oral law?

Do do you not think you are trying to revive the dead husband rather than be Faithful to the New?

Did the Messiah teach us to be circumcised outwardly through His New Testament or that we need to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit to enter the Kingdom of GOD?
I'm sorry I meant to write outward is a sign of inward...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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I'm sorry I meant to write outward is a sign of inward...
We are to worship GOD in Spirit and Truth said the Messiah.

And many are circumcised but have not the love of GOD in them..

You are mixing with those that are in unbelief who Know not the Father or Son...

Jeremiah 31


Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



It is written the New Covenant is not like the one given to the fathers... The Messiah gave New wine and did not bring more of the Old.... and you and I have different beliefs it seems and not to argue,, we must therefore continue on our journey and see what comes of it according to our Faith.

Let us be judged accordingly.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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True story... Love you in Messiah John Talmid. The question in your mind is am I following the Messiah of Elohim or something I made up? I can assure you that I try and in my lack of obedience Messiah's Spirit comforts me. My witness is nothing but what I and many others have experienced. They were carried by grace before they came to the level of truth they are now and they are still carried by grace in the level of the truth they have now and live according to. Because you don't hold to the Sabbath day and I say it is a Sin to not Obey the Father's instructions I find myself appear to be condemning you from your responses. I only want you to be reasonable with my conclusion. Why should we not together humble ourselves and admit that we where wrong? Sabbath is going to be observed in the Kingdom which lasts forever and we should be doing these things and learning by the Spirit of Messiah growing stronger and overcoming the world as one. Growing up so that Messiah comes to maturity in us to see wonders the world has only read about. Grow in the truth and don't fear because it is the spirit of Messiah that gives us comfort.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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True story... Love you in Messiah John Talmid. The question in your mind is am I following the Messiah of Elohim or something I made up? I can assure you that I try and in my lack of obedience Messiah's Spirit comforts me. My witness is nothing but what I and many others have experienced. They were carried by grace before they came to the level of truth they are now and they are still carried by grace in the level of the truth they have now and live according to. Because you don't hold to the Sabbath day and I say it is a Sin to not Obey the Father's instructions I find myself appear to be condemning you from your responses. I only want you to be reasonable with my conclusion. Why should we not together humble ourselves and admit that we where wrong? Sabbath is going to be observed in the Kingdom which lasts forever and we should be doing these things and learning by the Spirit of Messiah growing stronger and overcoming the world as one. Growing up so that Messiah comes to maturity in us to see wonders the world has only read about. Grow in the truth and don't fear because it is the spirit of Messiah that gives us comfort.
Jesus Christ is our Sabbath rest not a day!
The Sabbath in heaven is not a day either it is a person - Jesus Christ!

The 7th day Sabbath given to Moses was nothing more than a reminder of what mankind lost through sin.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The Old Covenant has been obsolete now since Christ died and rose from the dead. We don't live by the 10 commandments nor by anything in the "shadow" of the Old Covenant. We live by the life of Christ in us now. His life is the fulfillment of all the intent of the law of Moses.

Going back to the law for life and living is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord just like Paul says in Romans 7:1-6

We have died to the law of Moses, been released from the law of Moses and not under the law of Moses but under grace. Why? "So that" we can be joined to Another - to Christ Himself.

The commandments in the New Covenant are these.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest
The Old Covenant has been obsolete now since Christ died and rose from the dead. We don't live by the 10 commandments nor by anything in the "shadow" of the Old Covenant. We live by the life of Christ in us now. His life is the fulfillment of all the intent of the law of Moses.

Going back to the law for life and living is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord just like Paul says in Romans 7:1-6

We have died to the law of Moses, been released from the law of Moses and not under the law of Moses but under grace. Why? "So that" we can be joined to Another - to Christ Himself.

The commandments in the New Covenant are these.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." - Exodus 20:3-17

Do none of these apply to us?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." - Exodus 20:3-17

Do none of these apply to us?
The 10 commandments are part of the Law. Paul himself said it was unless 'coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting."

Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."




How do we live now in the New Covenant if the Christian has died to the law of Moses, been released from the law and not under the law but under grace now?

We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.

People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

People often say "Does that mean we can now kill people? Does that mean we can now steal?

The word "law" means "principle, rule, instruction".

We do have laws in the New Covenant.

They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.
Jesus fulfilled the law.

The law ( which the 10 commandments were a part of ) was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us..
Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." - Exodus 20:3-17

Do none of these apply to us?
Not directly - this is the preamble to a covenant (contract) between Israel and God - a conditional covenant based on obedience.
If, if one is a NEW covenant believer one is NOT subject to that covenant made in the Sinai that was only between the nation of Israel and God.

It is true to say that New covenant believers exhibiting the fruit of Spirit will by nature avoid sinning, however the ethical demands of the New Covenant are much higher than the Mosaic covenant because the ethic is not merely to avoid sinning and the penalty for sinning but to actively work for the Kingdom of God.
The fruit of the Spirit has no minimum requirement therefore there is no way to legislate the fruit of the Spirit i.e. it is beyond the law - literally.

Understand that a covenant is a contract - if one is not a party to the contract then one is not bound its terms and conditions.
New covenant believers are not party to the covenant of Moses.
In fact we are not really parties to the New Covenant either - we are, however, invited, by grace through faith, to enjoy the the benefits of the New covenant.
Remember that Jesus Christ has already fulfilled the righteous demands of the Mosaic covenant on our behalf.

Also remember that that the fruit of the Spirit is a much higher ethic than that found in the Mosaic covenant!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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G.... read the following and perhaps yo will finally understand certain understanding that has thus far eluded your comprehension.



ok the New Testament

-no good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped
by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs
that he taught to others.


after Acts 13, Acts 26:7 (KJV)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

Romans 9:4
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel


1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

(Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


3. Paul called God's law holy. (Romans 7:12)

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.


8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,


10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.

(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.

(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,


14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.

(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".

Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

- those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
True story... Love you in Messiah John Talmid. The question in your mind is am I following the Messiah of Elohim or something I made up? I can assure you that I try and in my lack of obedience Messiah's Spirit comforts me. My witness is nothing but what I and many others have experienced. They were carried by grace before they came to the level of truth they are now and they are still carried by grace in the level of the truth they have now and live according to. Because you don't hold to the Sabbath day and I say it is a Sin to not Obey the Father's instructions I find myself appear to be condemning you from your responses. I only want you to be reasonable with my conclusion. Why should we not together humble ourselves and admit that we where wrong? Sabbath is going to be observed in the Kingdom which lasts forever and we should be doing these things and learning by the Spirit of Messiah growing stronger and overcoming the world as one. Growing up so that Messiah comes to maturity in us to see wonders the world has only read about. Grow in the truth and don't fear because it is the spirit of Messiah that gives us comfort.

I believe we are to Keep Sabbath...

My concern is when the unbelieving try to yoke people... The New wine is better and there is no despise of the Old because it was given to bring the New...