Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

No, I am saying that while you may have truth about things, you come across in the same manner that you are condemning.

I understand why you say what you do. But, teaching should be opening doors not shutting. That's all.

Amen!!!

Teaching is not the filling of a pail but the lighting a fire
W. B. Yeats (paraphrased)

 

[stonesoffire]

The sad thing is Phil expected better of his brothers and sisters in the Lord, but some have failed.
Do you know how sensitive the Lord is to our nuances and intentions?

It is hard to comprehend the intentions and feelings that rise up in many over issues that should
actually bring about brokenness and humility. Our Lord just waits, like the teacher who comes
in a room and waits until everyone notices. Have we reason to treat His words with contempt,
and to claim so much, condemn others to hell and walk on as if we have done nothing.

I am concerned that to love another is a burden for some too hard to bear.
That to be faithful, open, honest, truthful, is too big an ask.

To come and give space to another, who comes honestly and openly, rather than accuse them
of lying, of being deceitful and dishonest, an agent of satan, and even possessed.

With a few short words, such strong things have been expressed and real anger and aggression
shown. Maybe the key is to listen to ones emotional heart and until one has sorted out in
peace and love where one is, it is best not to express it, because it will not be used to Christs
glory.

Now I do trust you all come with a good heart, so maybe we can listen to each other in this
light. We need this because the issues being spoken of are not minor but foundational to
our lives and who we are in Christ.

No one actually condemned anyone to hell. Only that that the work of Jesus alone is what is what saves not just the church, but the world if they would hear and receive.

Some just take offense and surmise that was what was said.

 

[Rosemaryx]

The sad thing is Phil expected better of his brothers and sisters in the Lord, but some have failed.
Do you know how sensitive the Lord is to our nuances and intentions?

It is hard to comprehend the intentions and feelings that rise up in many over issues that should
actually bring about brokenness and humility. Our Lord just waits, like the teacher who comes
in a room and waits until everyone notices. Have we reason to treat His words with contempt,
and to claim so much, condemn others to hell and walk on as if we have done nothing.

I am concerned that to love another is a burden for some too hard to bear.
That to be faithful, open, honest, truthful, is too big an ask.

To come and give space to another, who comes honestly and openly, rather than accuse them
of lying, of being deceitful and dishonest, an agent of satan, and even possessed.

With a few short words, such strong things have been expressed and real anger and aggression
shown. Maybe the key is to listen to ones emotional heart and until one has sorted out in
peace and love where one is, it is best not to express it, because it will not be used to Christs
glory.

Now I do trust you all come with a good heart, so maybe we can listen to each other in this
light. We need this because the issues being spoken of are not minor but foundational to
our lives and who we are in Christ.

Hi Peter...I agree with your post, and yes, it will not be used for Christ glory...Some people actually pray before they make a post, they ask God for wisdom before they reply to an answer, so many answers on this thread are thrown out as quick as the person has typed , i call this responding in the flesh...Some things spoken through the key board are not covered by Christ, for Christ would not imply such things...xox...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The sad thing is Phil expected better of his brothers and sisters in the Lord, but some have failed.
Do you know how sensitive the Lord is to our nuances and intentions?

It is hard to comprehend the intentions and feelings that rise up in many over issues that should
actually bring about brokenness and humility. Our Lord just waits, like the teacher who comes
in a room and waits until everyone notices. Have we reason to treat His words with contempt,
and to claim so much, condemn others to hell and walk on as if we have done nothing.

I am concerned that to love another is a burden for some too hard to bear.
That to be faithful, open, honest, truthful, is too big an ask.

To come and give space to another, who comes honestly and openly, rather than accuse them
of lying, of being deceitful and dishonest, an agent of satan, and even possessed.

With a few short words, such strong things have been expressed and real anger and aggression
shown. Maybe the key is to listen to ones emotional heart and until one has sorted out in
peace and love where one is, it is best not to express it, because it will not be used to Christs
glory.

Now I do trust you all come with a good heart, so maybe we can listen to each other in this
light. We need this because the issues being spoken of are not minor but foundational to
our lives and who we are in Christ.

I want to focus in on your 4th paragraph. I totally agree. But the problem is that each side does not see their OWN complicity in the matter. A lack of love has flown at times from both sides. Not just one.

And once a lack of love has flown out there, it snowballs from there because no one wants to forgive. No man wants to be the peacemaker and grab the blessing. So the one who took offense refuses to forgive and then by reviling back in kind without love, the second one has become as much of a problem to us as the offended one who refused to forgive in the first place.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Notice, a few people tried t get thread back on track, by discussing the word, and we still are not discussing the word.

Thats is the other issue,

i have to dive fr for a bit, I pray when we get back someone is trying to discuss the questions asked earlier today.

Some levity is required sometimes, especially after ugliness that hurt all of us and made some of the sisters cry.
Back to seriousness. (Unless someone makes me laugh and then I can't make any promises...)

 

[Rosemaryx]

I want to focus in on your 4th paragraph. I totally agree. But the problem is that each side does not see their OWN complicity in the matter. A lack of love has flown at times from both sides. Not just one.

And once a lack of love has flown out there, it snowballs from there because no one wants to forgive. No man wants to be the peacemaker and grab the blessing. So the one who took offense refuses to forgive and then by reviling back in kind without love, the second one has become as much of a problem to us as the offended one who refused to forgive in the first place.

Hi SBG...Yes it`s called a yoyo effect...We are taught that we should not be like a reed, being blown in the wind from side to side...We should ALL walk in the manner of Love, for Love is God Himself, Love is something we should never let go off because if we do then we let go of God Himself as people clearly showed this in last nights episode...We are all sinners, and we must come to our Lord and repent of things that were spoken from the flesh...Praise God for His BEA~UTI~FUL Son for without Him we are nothing...xox...

 

[JIMBO43]

Ooops...... no one will loose salvation period, because those that are saved have eternal assurance of salvation cause Jesus said so!

no one will lose salvation because of one thing only and that is you and everyone here have not recieved there completion of salvation.. you can not lose something that hasnt been given to you yet... this is the one and only reason why no one can lose there salvation untill the lord returns...

The promise of salvation is God saying he will not break his promise to those who do all the wonderfull requirments he requires from his students..

1 protect innocence..

2 allways be slow to anger and eager to know the truth with patience and kindness..

3 the lord wants kindness and love from us..

4 the lords requires we obey...

5 the lord reqires we love each other..

6 the lord requires us not to do the work of satan..


all thees are requirements of his standards that he pours out through his grace.. this is a rich blessing and keeps the believer hoping for salvation and also keeps the believer from disobeying in the lords absence.... this is what is ment by continue to work out your salvatio..


to continue to work out your salvation ,,, means you must be Good in your own set of walls in your private dwelling.. which is also an instruction..


to continue to work out your salvation does not mean you can preach youve fully recieved it... salvation is and allways will be a process that leads to a once in a life time event of recieving your new glorified body,, where by you will be able to walk in the garden of eden once more... but untill we recieve our glorified bodies we will never be allowed in his Garden of eden... we can only commune in spirit... blessings to you

 

[stonesoffire]

We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved Jimbo.

 

[Rosemaryx]

no one will lose salvation because of one thing only and that is you and everyone here have not recieved there completion of salvation.. you can not lose something that hasnt been given to you yet... this is the one and only reason why no one can lose there salvation untill the lord returns...

The promise of salvation is God saying he will not break his promise to those who do all the wonderfull requirments he requires from his students..

1 protect innocence..

2 allways be slow to anger and eager to know the truth with patience and kindness..

3 the lord wants kindness and love from us..

4 the lords requires we obey...

5 the lord reqires we love each other..

6 the lord requires us not to do the work of satan..


all thees are requirements of his standards that he pours out through his grace.. this is a rich blessing and keeps the believer hoping for salvation and also keeps the believer from disobeying in the lords absence.... this is what is ment by continue to work out your salvatio..


to continue to work out your salvation ,,, means you must be Good in your own set of walls in your private dwelling.. which is also an instruction..


to continue to work out your salvation does not mean you can preach youve fully recieved it... salvation is and allways will be a process that leads to a once in a life time event of recieving your new glorified body,, where by you will be able to walk in the garden of eden once more... but untill we recieve our glorified bodies we will never be allowed in his Garden of eden... we can only commune in spirit... blessings to you

Hi Jim...I believe that we must work out our salvation with trembling and fear daily, for each new day is given to us by the Grace of God...Psalm 118:24 [FONT=&quot]This is the day the Lord has made;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We will rejoice and be glad in it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We ​are given one day at a time, not a tomorrow or a day after, so yes each day the Lord gives us, we must abide in Him, it is a process, step by step...xox...[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus NEVER said that we need to do good works for the purpose of getting salvation.

He NEVER said that we need to do good works for the purpose of keeping salvation.

He also NEVER said that our good works will get us into heaven.


THESE ARE FACTS THAT CANNOT BE DISPUTED...

no but he did say if you disobey you are in danger of the fire...

 

[JIMBO43]

We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved Jimbo.

you speak for we ? .. and you also declare you will be saved... salvation is not something you can take for granted ... coz if it where there will be a heaven full of evil people...

Gods most treasured Gift is not something you can take for granted..... you will do well to remember that..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi SBG...Yes it`s called a yoyo effect...We are taught that we should not be like a reed, being blown in the wind from side to side...We should ALL walk in the manner of Love, for Love is God Himself, Love is something we should never let go off because if we do then we let go of God Himself as people clearly showed this in last nights episode...We are all sinners, and we must come to our Lord and repent of things that were spoken from the flesh...Praise God for His BEA~UTI~FUL Son for without Him we are nothing...xox...

Yes, we should all walk in love in the Spirit. When we realize we are not doing it and can NOT do it, then we pray for the love we lack toward others. He wants to richly supply our needs. But we have to first agree with the Spirit that we are NOT loving others, instead of trying to cover up our murders. Then we will ask for what we lack. And we know that anything we ask in His name will be given to us and that He will never refuse us our needs.

 

[TruthTalk]

no but he did say if you disobey you are in danger of the fire...

Bible verse please; since when are God's children in danger of fire, from a Father where by we call out; "Abba, daddy."

 

[stonesoffire]

you speak for we ? .. and you also declare you will be saved... salvation is not something you can take for granted ... coz if it where there will be a heaven full of evil people...

Gods most treasured Gift is not something you can take for granted..... you will do well to remember that..

What makes you think that I do?

 

[JIMBO43]

Bible verse please; since when are God's children in danger of fire, from a Father where by we call out; "Abba, daddy."

John 15






[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


John 15Amplified Bible (AMP)

Jesus Is the Vine—Followers Are Branches

15 “[SUP][a][/SUP]I am the true Vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that continues to bear fruit, He [repeatedly] prunes, so that it will bear more fruit [even richer and finer fruit]. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word which I have given you [the teachings which I have discussed with you]. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Remain in Me, and I [will remain] in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself without remaining in the vine, neither can you [bear fruit, producing evidence of your faith] unless you remain in Me. [SUP]5 [/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP]I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him bears much fruit, for [otherwise] apart from Me [that is, cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies; and they gather such branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you remain in Me and My words remain in you [that is, if we are vitally united and My message lives in your heart], ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]My Father is glorified and honored by this, when you bear much fruit, and prove yourselves to be My [true] disciples. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I have loved you just as the Father has loved Me; remain in My love [and do not doubt My love for you]. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep My commandments and obey My teaching, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I have told you these things so that My joy and delight may be in you, and that your joy may be made full and complete and overflowing.
Disciples’ Relation to Each Other

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“This is My commandment, that you [SUP][c][/SUP]love and unselfishly seek the best for one another, just as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has greater love [nor stronger commitment] than to lay down his own life for his friends. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are my friends if you keep on doing what I command you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not call you servants any longer, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you [My] friends, because I have revealed to you everything that I have heard from My Father. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and I have appointed and placed and purposefully planted you, so that you would go and bear fruit and keep on bearing, and that your fruit will remain and be lasting, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name [as My representative] He may give to you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This [is what] I command you: that you love and unselfishly seek the best for one another.
Disciples’ Relation to the World

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“If the world hates you [and it does], know that it has hated Me before it hated you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]If you belonged to the world, the world would love [you as] its own and would treat you with affection. But you are not of the world [you no longer belong to it], but I have chosen you out of the world. And because of this the world hates you. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Remember [and continue to remember] that I told you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But they will do all these [hurtful] things to you for My name’s sake [because you bear My name and are identified with Me], for they do not know the One who sent Me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have [the guilt of their] sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. [SUP]23 [/SUP]The one who hates Me also hates My Father. [SUP]24 [/SUP]If I had not done among them the works (attesting miracles) which no one else [ever] did, they would not have [the guilt of their] sin; but now [the fact is that] they have both seen [these works] and have hated Me [and continue to hate Me] and My Father as well. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But [this is so] that the word which has been written in their Law would be fulfilled, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But when the [SUP][d][/SUP]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth who comes from the Father, He will testify and bear witness about Me. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But you will testify also and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

 

[BillG]

No one actually condemned anyone to hell. Only that that the work of Jesus alone is what is what saves not just the church, but the world if they would hear and receive.

Some just take offense and surmise that was what was said.

People may not have actually said and may have said "Your going to hell" but by inference words said have come across like this.

Now that may not be the intent but given the posts that I have read since I have been here I can see why people think that.
In fact at times I have felt some have been saying that to me because some feel I am a greasy gracer and greasy gracers will not inherit the kingdom.

I truly understand why those opposed to what they term greasy grace are concerned, even Paul had to address this in Romans.
But he addressed the true reason for and of Grace and why it should not be abused.

Having said that I have seen the same at times as well from the other side. People trying to earn/work their way to heaven won't make it.

To be honest I really don't like this, they say, they believe. This them and us mentality.
We are meant to be family and even families can be dysfunctional but we are family. Brothers and sisters in Christ.
Children of the Father being reconciled to him through Jesus.

Yes we have differences and each works out their salvation.
To me if one builds with stuff that is burned up but have faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins then as Paul says they will escape through the flames but still be saved.

I am not accusing anyone here just giving my observations and my thoughts.

Furthermore I would also say that we have regular contributors here, one would hope that we get to know a little bit about them.
In doing so we should know how to respond. We in a sense need to pick up on the little details of experiences that they share but can be easily missed.

If we do so maybe things would be better.

 

[JIMBO43]

John 15Amplified Bible (AMP)

Jesus Is the Vine—Followers Are Branches

15 “[SUP][a][/SUP]I am the true Vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that continues to bear fruit, He [repeatedly] prunes, so that it will bear more fruit [even richer and finer fruit]. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word which I have given you [the teachings which I have discussed with you]. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Remain in Me, and I [will remain] in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself without remaining in the vine, neither can you [bear fruit, producing evidence of your faith] unless you remain in Me. [SUP]5 [/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP]I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him bears much fruit, for [otherwise] apart from Me [that is, cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies; and they gather such branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you remain in Me and My words remain in you [that is, if we are vitally united and My message lives in your heart], ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]My Father is glorified and honored by this, when you bear much fruit, and prove yourselves to be My [true] disciples. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I have loved you just as the Father has loved Me; remain in My love [and do not doubt My love for you]. [SUP]10[/SUP]If you keep My commandments and obey My teaching, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I have told you these things so that My joy and delight may be in you, and that your joy may be made full and complete and overflowing.
Disciples’ Relation to Each Other

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“This is My commandment, that you [SUP][c][/SUP]love and unselfishly seek the best for one another, just as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has greater love [nor stronger commitment] than to lay down his own life for his friends. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are my friends if you keep on doing what I command you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not call you servants any longer, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you [My] friends, because I have revealed to you everything that I have heard from My Father. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and I have appointed and placed and purposefully planted you, so that you would go and bear fruit and keep on bearing, and that your fruit will remain and be lasting, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name [as My representative] He may give to you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This [is what] I command you: that you love and unselfishly seek the best for one another.
Disciples’ Relation to the World

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“If the world hates you [and it does], know that it has hated Me before it hated you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]If you belonged to the world, the world would love [you as] its own and would treat you with affection. But you are not of the world [you no longer belong to it], but I have chosen you out of the world. And because of this the world hates you. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Remember [and continue to remember] that I told you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But they will do all these [hurtful] things to you for My name’s sake [because you bear My name and are identified with Me], for they do not know the One who sent Me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have [the guilt of their] sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. [SUP]23 [/SUP]The one who hates Me also hates My Father. [SUP]24 [/SUP]If I had not done among them the works (attesting miracles) which no one else [ever] did, they would not have [the guilt of their] sin; but now [the fact is that] they have both seen [these works] and have hated Me [and continue to hate Me] and My Father as well. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But [this is so] that the word which has been written in their Law would be fulfilled, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But when the [SUP][d][/SUP]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth who comes from the Father, He will testify and bear witness about Me. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But you will testify also and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

 

[JIMBO43]

What makes you think that I do?

by saying we will be saved.. and by saying you will be saved...no one has that right untill he returns and even then it will not be something to boast about..

 

[stonesoffire]

by saying we will be saved.. and by saying you will be saved...no one has that right untill he returns and even then it will not be something to boast about..

ok...maybe someone else can explain this better.

 

[JIMBO43]

ok...maybe someone else can explain this better.

tell me when or if you recieve your glorified body will you boast and say i told you so to everyone or will you just be thankfull... or will you secretly inside think your a cut above everyone else..