Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yep, I wasn't saved yet either at that time. She called me all excited and kept saying "do you believe me, do you believe me?" and being a good husband at the time said "of course I believe you"

Two weeks later I'm kneeling at the side of the road (Highway I90- between Buffalo and Rochester NY), crying my eyes out begging God for forgiveness and thanking Him for His sacrifice.

We have an AWESOME God!!

Ah..that is so great!
I wish this had happened with my husband. Instead, after a few years, he said it felt like I was cheating on him and he wanted a divorce. He felt like he lost me, and in a sense, he did. The whole world lost me...and I lost them.

 

[Desertsrose]

I have a question, the tax collector knew he was spiritually bankrupt before he knew Christ did he not?

Hi EG,

I've always considered him a believer. There's a contrast of a true genuine believer with the false self righteous (so called) believer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think abiding means being good enough. I think abiding means continuing in and growing in trust. It was because I finally saw that I was never going to be good enough but would always fail at some point, like when someone stepped on my toes or cut me off in traffic or did or said something selfish to me and I started screaming like a banshee about how they needed to apologize, that I DID begin to trust Him (abide more fully) to make me truly good.

I still believe abiding is necessary, but I have seen that He has to see even to that for me too.

In short, I still believe continuing and growing in my trust (abiding) is necessary. That is why He sees to it and brings me to the struggle to trust more fully. I used to think I was the one seeing to it. Even last week, I thought that.

I have to get some sleep, will continue, that you for answering my questions, I pray we are done we understand where each other are coming from.

Have a a great night!

 

[Rosemaryx]

eternal (never ending, from rever, without end) life (spiritual life)

you will not find osas in scripture, not even sure where that term came from,

but you you will find gods promise that whoever believes in him will never perish, but has in their possession never ending life.

But what happens to those that do really believe in Jesus, and they know the truth, but they chose to live in the world because of their temptations, knowing that God is their Father, and His word Jesus is the truth, what happens to those who do truly believe but they fall of the path, even when they wake from their drunkard stuper or drug binge yet they still believe but have not broke free, is this not why God gives us warnings to head...Some people who truly are shamed feel they can not face God, God is a long suffering God, but He also holds the scales of justice to His righteousness, yet theses ones have fallen from Gods Grace but was once saved...Please understand that i am not trying to rock any boats here, I am truly asking, because as i read my Bible, i am very secure in Christ, but i also read the warnings from God...xox...It`s like God is saying " Don`t take my Son for granted "...xox...

 

[willybob]

Do you believe everyone who disagrees with you is of the flesh?

I don't.

Sometimes they know more than me and I need to honor them to receive from them.

And other times, they see differently than me, but it doesn't agree with my own walk, but I honor them in their own walk.

And finally sometimes, they are walking in the flesh, but I don't discover this by their "theology", but more by the fruit of their theology. How they treat people, how they treat me, how they see others, how they see themselves, and how they understand God.

We are all on a journey of maturity. We are continually growing up in Christ.

What I want to be wary of is the idea that people "don't want to know" the truth.

As soon as I believe this about someone, I am partnering with the wrong spirit, and I will seek to persuade instead of understand.

Yet Paul says, I did not come with wise persuasive words, but the power of the Spirit. That's the model I want to follow.

greetings Cee; the flesh will always argue in favor of a forgone conclusion of sin to be found in the text...However it can be found nowhere in the scriptures, but rather the forgone conclusion is righteousness...the flesh is unable to comprehend this, and this is why Jesus spoke in parables to them, in hopes of stiring up their mind, in that they might with their spiritual ears hearkin, and with their spiritual eyes see, and if so He should heal them.....be blessed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG,

I've always considered him a believer. There's a contrast of a true genuine believer with the false self righteous (so called) believer.

Could be but he became a believer only after he saw his true self. He was also asking to be saved, so he may have been a believer, but he was not yet justified or saved, thus he was not christs at the time, he was doing what Paul said in romans, he was calling out on the name of the lord to be saved.

 

[Limey410v2]

Ah..that is so great!
I wish this had happened with my husband. Instead, after a few years, he said it felt like I was cheating on him and he wanted a divorce. He felt like he lost me, and in a sense, he did. The whole world lost me...and I lost them.

I'm sorry

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But what happens to those that do really believe in Jesus, and they know the truth, but they chose to live in the world because of their temptations, knowing that God is their Father, and His word Jesus is the truth, what happens to those who do truly believe but they fall of the path, even when they wake from their drunkard stuper or drug binge yet they still believe but have not broke free, is this not why God gives us warnings to head...Some people who truly are shamed feel they can not face God, God is a long suffering God, but He also holds the scales of justice to His righteousness, yet theses ones have fallen from Gods Grace but was once saved...Please understand that i am not trying to rock any boats here, I am truly asking, because as i read my Bible, i am very secure in Christ, but i also read the warnings from God...xox...It`s like God is saying " Don`t take my Son for granted "...xox...

read the apostle john in his epistle what he says about those who live in sin,

and what he says about those who left.

I will I'll add more tomorrow

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hw do you abide? How did you attach yourself to the vine to begin with?

So when you say, how do you abide? my mind sees you asking: how do you continue in and grow in trust?

So my answer is: He shows me where I'm not trusting and a new struggle to fully trust in that area begins.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm sorry

It's okay. God knows what He's doing.
I didn't mean to make you sad.

 

[willybob]

This is a broad sweeping insult and fallacious remark - "You can explain it 6 ways from Sunday and they will never get it."Please do explain with bible verses.

Not sure if I understand your sympathy to Judas; he betrayed our Lord.

He didnt have to, but he did...Judas could have still repented, but after desperately seeking repentance he could no longer find it..The scriptures speak of this condition many times over and over again. That is a sorrowful thing, even Jesus was troubled over this and sorrowful in His heart over losing Judas..........be blessed

 

[Desertsrose]

Could be but he became a believer only after he saw his true self. He was also asking to be saved, so he may have been a believer, but he was not yet justified or saved, thus he was not christs at the time, he was doing what Paul said in romans, he was calling out on the name of the lord to be saved.

Yes, you could be right. My thoughts though are that for this person to recognize his sin, the Spirit has already moved on him with God's grace and he sees his condition as a sinner and is responding in faith.

The conviction comes before hand so as the person speaks the way the tax collector did can only do it in the new birth. What I'm thinking is that he's born of the spirit or he wouldn't be convicted of his sins and confess he's a sinner.

I don't want to split hairs here, but it's interesting to think about the process of the new birth and how it all comes together.

 

[willybob]

Sin hardens the heart, it doesn't humble it, at some point the heart can become so hardened it can no longer repent...... a very scary condition indeed,

 

[Rosemaryx]

I don't think abiding means being good enough. I think abiding means continuing in and growing in trust. It was because I finally saw that I was never going to be good enough but would always fail at some point, like when someone stepped on my toes or cut me off in traffic or did or said something selfish to me and I started screaming like a banshee about how they needed to apologize, that I DID begin to trust Him (abide more fully) to make me truly good.

I still believe abiding is necessary, but I have seen that He has to see even to that for me too.

In short, I still believe continuing and growing in my trust (abiding) is necessary. That is why He sees to it and brings me to the struggle to trust more fully. I used to think I was the one seeing to it. Even last week, I thought that.

Abide in Me reminds me to always CLING , to hold on with both hands and not let let go...Abide is to trust, lean and rely, just as Jjesus said...We should abide with everything we got for our dear pathetic life`s...xox...Just said pathetic because that is what we are if we do not abide in Him...xox...

 

[Meggido]

I agree that as we mature, we become more of a listener to Him, and as a result we will live our lives with God living in and through us. Participating in His Kingdom, in Him, and Him in our life.

But that comes out of His love for us. And yes then our love for Him, as a relationship in the Spirit.

Not from what we perceive our good works should be. God might have one thing for us to do, and one thing only, and if we fail at that one thing He still lets us live in His Kingdom. We may fail because we are so busy doing things that are not from Him, that we fail to listen. Who knows what the reason, but He doesn't kick us out!

People maintain that their works are of God all of the time, when they may not even be from God. I don't say STOP doing that work, it makes no difference to me. Just don't come at me saying I must do those works also, or else I am not a Christian, or I don't know my God. Especially when they don't know me, my heart, or what God's plan is for me.

Just don't come at me saying I do these works to obtain and maintain my salvation, because I don't....

 

[Rosemaryx]

So when you say, how do you abide? my mind sees you asking: how do you continue in and grow in trust?

So my answer is: He shows me where I'm not trusting and a new struggle to fully trust in that area begins.

Hi SBG...I believe when we are given Faith the size of a mustard seed we grow in that seed, and when we have proven to God that we trust, lean and rely on Him through our trials and not be blown away with the wind, He gives us more Faith to grow...I get this response because when i am filled with His word, my cup is full, i go and live my life through Him, sharing the Gospel may it be in my walk or my speech, i see God looks at us when we are abiding Him, so He gives us more faith to go out and use for His Glory so our cup is never empty...I would love to share Scripture but it is late, i am only going by what i believe the Lord is showing me...xox...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Man oh man have I ever enjoyed talking with you guys today! I'm going to take the dog for a walk, brush my teeth, and come back. I won't be able to come tomorrow. I could just spend every DAY talking with you all!

 

[Meggido]

there is no such thing a positional righteousness, it was invented by men like Luther, and it can't be found anywhere in the text. Only manifest reality is true....one is righteous by simply doing what is right said the apostle John, and one is of the devil by partaking of sin..both are manifest realities which produce either good fruit or evil fruit ..be blessed

2 cor 5.21-

[SUP]21 [/SUP]He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Romans 5.15-21

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, [SUP]21 [/SUP]so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Philippians 3.7-11


[SUP]7 [/SUP]But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Let's not confuse positional righteous with practical righteousness...

John spoke of practical righteousness...doing the right thing and the right time, all the time...

Paul spoke of positional righteousness gained tat Salvation, which is a gift just as salvation is...

 

[UnderGrace]

All good questions and I promise many of us have had the same questions.

Always build from the lens of that the sacrifice of the cross is sufficient to save, and every sin past present and future has been forgiven.

Scripture does not contradict itself, so take your time to put it together with a open mind ( not too quick to be absolutely sure

until you have really come to a place where you are fully persuaded )

and the leading of good teacher and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you to truth.

But what happens to those that do really believe in Jesus, and they know the truth, but they chose to live in the world because of their temptations, knowing that God is their Father, and His word Jesus is the truth, what happens to those who do truly believe but they fall of the path, even when they wake from their drunkard stuper or drug binge yet they still believe but have not broke free, is this not why God gives us warnings to head...Some people who truly are shamed feel they can not face God, God is a long suffering God, but He also holds the scales of justice to His righteousness, yet theses ones have fallen from Gods Grace but was once saved...Please understand that i am not trying to rock any boats here, I am truly asking, because as i read my Bible, i am very secure in Christ, but i also read the warnings from God...xox...It`s like God is saying " Don`t take my Son for granted "...xox...

 

[Meggido]

In the garden. Gen 3: 4-5, He accuses God of lying.

Some Scholars say Job is the oldest book in the Bible and the lineage of Adam in Genesis 5 leans that way....I am still working that out, but if true then it was Satan accusing Job, and depending on how and when you view the accuser of the Brethren was cast down in Revelations 12, then Job 1, 2 and Rev 12 would be rightly divided....