Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

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sometimes people spend so much time twisting the words of christ around to fit the way they want it,,,that they miss the entire message.
 
Meggido said:
I have to be honest....many of us said this same thing over in the not by works thread and did so many times, yet were promptly accused of preaching sinless-perfection...and that we were saying we did not sin anymore....

You are quite correct, the Holy Spirit can only convince a believer of their righteousness.....
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Sometimes we misunderstand each other. I think where we end up disagreeing (not you and me), but just different works vs grace mindsets is when we say something like: salvation produces works. And people come in and say yeah it does, BUT... and then sneak in some mindset that makes it faith plus works = salvation.

It's faith, always been faith, always will be faith. Faith is the only thing that pleases Him. Obedience is having faith in Him. And having faith in Him produces salvation. As a result of salvation we produce works because of who we are in Him.

So the big elephant is this: why do some not have good works AFTER salvation?

1. Some argue it's because they aren't really saved. Scripture confirms this.
2. Some argue it's because their minds aren't really renewed. Scripture confirms this.
3. Some argue it's because they willfully disobey God. This is one I struggle to agree with because people disobey God because of lies. If we knew better, we would ALWAYS desire His ways. So the issue is knowing the truth. And that's why it sets us free.

Why do I say this? Because I don't believe in sinless perfection in regards to we CAN'T sin. The mere presence of Scripture shows us that true believers needed to be reminded who they are in Christ and then given steps of application to produce their identity. So yes, we CAN sin, but it's stupid. And the more we understand how good, kind, and loving our Father is the more we realize how stupid it is to do our own flesh-lead thing - this leads to repentance (or turning to God) - and we realize how good His ways are. And this is growing up in Christ through discipleship.

I think the issues come when we try to make A = B, when really there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle when we take Scripture as a whole. I am probably one of the loudest exhorters of how we need to love one another. I am all for good works. ALL for them. In fact, I think we minimize sin because Scripture says ANYTHING not of faith is sin. Those who think that faith plus works are needed probably don't have a clue what good works really are. So that's when I start to change my tone to show them self-righteousness is exactly what is stopping them from doing what they desire (exactly as Paul explains in Romans 7).

What *I* desire I can not do...

Well you're dead to you.. now you're alive to Him... and you are part of something bigger than just yourself.

Now you're apart of His Body, joined to His Head, lead by His Spirit. Now you're ONE with Him. It's not what *I* can do, but what HE can do by the power of His Spirit.

We ARE His Holy temple. And let NO man call unholy what He calls holy.
 
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Cee said:
Sometimes we misunderstand each other. I think where we end up disagreeing (not you and me), but just different works vs grace mindsets is when we say something like: salvation produces works. And people come in and say yeah it does, BUT... and then sneak in some mindset that makes it faith plus works = salvation.

It's faith, always been faith, always will be faith. Faith is the only thing that pleases Him. Obedience is having faith in Him. And having faith in Him produces salvation. As a result of salvation we produce works because of who we are in Him.

So the big elephant is this: why do some not have good works AFTER salvation?

1. Some argue it's because they aren't really saved. Scripture confirms this.
2. Some argue it's because they're minds aren't really renewed. Scripture confirms this.
3. Some argue it's because man willfully disobeys God. This is one I struggle to agree with because people disobey God because of lies. If we knew better, we would ALWAYS desire His ways. So the issue is knowing the truth. And that's why it sets us free.

Why do I say this? Because I don't believe in sinless perfection in regards to we CAN'T sin. The mere presence of Scripture shows us that true believers needed to be reminded who they are in Christ and then given steps of application to produce their identity. So yes, we CAN sin, but it's stupid. And the more we understand how good, kind, and loving our Father is the more we realize how stupid it is to do our thing - this leads to repentance (or turning to God) - and this is growing up in Christ through discipleship.

I think the issues come when we try to make A = B, when really there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle when we take Scripture as a whole. I am probably one of the loudest exhorters of how we need to love one another. I am all for good works. ALL for them. In fact, I think we minimize sin because Scripture says ANYTHING not of faith is sin. Those who think that faith plus works are needed probably don't have a clue what good works really are. So that's when I start to change my tone to show them self-righteousness is exactly what is stopping them from doing what they desire (exactly as Paul explains in Romans 7).

What *I* desire I can not do...

Well you're dead to you.. now you're alive to Him... and you are part of something bigger than just yourself.

Now you're apart of His Body, joined to His Head, lead by His Spirit. Now you're ONE with Him. It's not what *I* can do, but what HE can do by the power of His Spirit.

We ARE His Holy temple. And let NO man call unholy what He calls holy.
Click to expand...

For some it is not personal saving faith that saves them, but Jesus' own perosnal faith and that is not true....I cannot find that anywhere in the Bible....
 
Cee said:
Sometimes we misunderstand each other. I think where we end up disagreeing (not you and me), but just different works vs grace mindsets is when we say something like: salvation produces works. And people come in and say yeah it does, BUT... and then sneak in some mindset that makes it faith plus works = salvation.

It's faith, always been faith, always will be faith. Faith is the only thing that pleases Him. Obedience is having faith in Him. And having faith in Him produces salvation. As a result of salvation we produce works because of who we are in Him.

So the big elephant is this: why do some not have good works AFTER salvation?

1. Some argue it's because they aren't really saved. Scripture confirms this.
2. Some argue it's because their minds aren't really renewed. Scripture confirms this.
3. Some argue it's because man willfully disobeys God. This is one I struggle to agree with because people disobey God because of lies. If we knew better, we would ALWAYS desire His ways. So the issue is knowing the truth. And that's why it sets us free.

Why do I say this? Because I don't believe in sinless perfection in regards to we CAN'T sin. The mere presence of Scripture shows us that true believers needed to be reminded who they are in Christ and then given steps of application to produce their identity. So yes, we CAN sin, but it's stupid. And the more we understand how good, kind, and loving our Father is the more we realize how stupid it is to do our thing - this leads to repentance (or turning to God) - and this is growing up in Christ through discipleship.

I think the issues come when we try to make A = B, when really there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle when we take Scripture as a whole. I am probably one of the loudest exhorters of how we need to love one another. I am all for good works. ALL for them. In fact, I think we minimize sin because Scripture says ANYTHING not of faith is sin. Those who think that faith plus works are needed probably don't have a clue what good works really are. So that's when I start to change my tone to show them self-righteousness is exactly what is stopping them from doing what they desire (exactly as Paul explains in Romans 7).

What *I* desire I can not do...

Well you're dead to you.. now you're alive to Him... and you are part of something bigger than just yourself.

Now you're apart of His Body, joined to His Head, lead by His Spirit. Now you're ONE with Him. It's not what *I* can do, but what HE can do by the power of His Spirit.

We ARE His Holy temple. And let NO man call unholy what He calls holy.
Click to expand...

I also want to add...

Some remain stunted in their growth and maturity
Some are never taught or are given milk their whole lives
Some are worldly in their approach to God

this = works of wood, hay and stubble, but still saved......
 
Meggido said:
For some it is not personal saving faith that saves them, but Jesus' own perosnal faith and that is not true....I cannot find that anywhere in the Bible....
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I can guess what you mean by this, but I'm unclear. And I don't see how it connects with my response to you?
 
Cee said:
I can guess what you mean by this, but I'm unclear. And I don't see how it connects with my response to you?
Click to expand...

you said it was all about faith...I was making a comment on that...many here state man has no personal saving faith...it is the faith of Jesus, that saved them and keeps them.....
 
Cee said:
I can guess what you mean by this, but I'm unclear. And I don't see how it connects with my response to you?
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He speaks of me because I believe the following....

a. Jesus is the beginner and finisher of our faith
b. Faith is a spiritual gift
c. God deals to every man a measure of faith (believers)
d. Jesus will complete that Good work of faith he began in us

Since JESUS is the source of our faith, starts our faith, finishes out faith, completes our faith, deals it out in measure our salvation is secure in Christ.

From faith to faith it is written the just shall live by faith

and

Even when we believe not (after being saved) he abides faithful and cannot deny himself.

Since men do not posses (saving faith) and the above are true then the faith that saves us, and the source of the faith that saves us is Christ<---the beginner and finisher of our faith.
 
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EXCELLENT points!

dcontroversal said:
I also want to add...

Some remain stunted in their growth and maturity
Some are never taught or are given milk their whole lives
Some are worldly in their approach to God

this = works of wood, hay and stubble, but still saved......
Click to expand...
 
Theses scriptures that speak of faith in Jesus, and faith of Jesus. There's one scripture that says both. There's a difference between in and of. Why then?
 
Meggido said:
you said it was all about faith...I was making a comment on that...many here state man has no personal saving faith...it is the faith of Jesus, that saved them and keeps them.....
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I hear where you're coming from. And I do believe it is all about faith, even in the OT, as I wrote you before.

I do believe we have a part to play, I would say, "We call Him Lord by the faith He gives us."

But once we die and are reborn in Him, we now live BY faith because we are dead to the old.

Paul wrote, "Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. "

That's a pretty bold statement written by Paul.

Why do you think he wrote that?
 
stonesoffire said:
Theses scriptures that speak of faith in Jesus, and faith of Jesus. There's one scripture that says both. There's a difference between in and of. Why then?
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Of can be translated of or from and both indicate source.....en (in) is the object of said faith......if that makes sense
 
Cee said:
I hear where you're coming from. And I do believe it is all about faith, even in the OT, as I wrote you before.

I do believe we have a part to play, I would say, "We call Him Lord by the faith He gives us."

But once we die and are reborn in Him, we now live BY faith because we are dead to the old.

Paul wrote, "Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. "

That's a pretty bold statement written by Paul.

Why do you think he wrote that?
Click to expand...

and the life we now live we live by the faith OF the Son of God......of or from indicate source and the word can be translated both ways...
 
stonesoffire said:
I don't think I fully understood this until your post Cee. No offense meant Grace777. Am going to copy this post, and go over it until it's part of me.
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This truly blessed me. And is exactly why I love to share. Thank you so much. I pray that He will continue to work in you more and more from whatever seeds He plants through me into you. Bless you!
 
Cee said:
This truly blessed me. And is exactly why I love to share. Thank you so much. I pray that He will continue to work in you more and more from whatever seeds He plants through me into you. Bless you!
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Thank you for the blessing...received. :)
 
dcontroversal said:
and the life we now live we live by the faith OF the Son of God......of or from indicate source and the word can be translated both ways...
Click to expand...

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It makes great sense when one reads this scripture.
 
stonesoffire said:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It makes great sense when one reads this scripture.
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Exactly why salvation is secure......
 
And one can go on growing when secure. Security is His love to us.

I had had a dream several years back, where I was waiting to be ushered into the wedding of Jesus and His Bride. It was Security (men with it stamped on the back of their uniforms) that came for me. Spoke volumes to me.
 
Cee said:
This truly blessed me. And is exactly why I love to share. Thank you so much. I pray that He will continue to work in you more and more from whatever seeds He plants through me into you. Bless you!
Click to expand...

You have a gift of making truth simple to understand. Am glad you are here on this website. ;)
 
The holy spirit does not convict you of sin because Jesus paid the price for our sins. But we will be judge on our deeds and how we treat other.
What's the difference well if we had sin we would NOt be allowed the chance to have life after death but with sin out of the way he have a chance
 
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