Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

7seasrekeyed · Sep 5, 2017

I know what you believe

that is part of the problem being discussed

Joseph Prince and Paul Ellis are both purveyors of a false understanding of grace and you favor both

this has been discussed literally hundreds of times and we have been told not to bring up the subject yet you base your beliefs on what they teach

do you actually think I am interested in that?

when this belief fails you, remember you will find the truth in Jesus words...not the current false teachers you support

this is not personal, do not make it so

I refer to your teachers of false grace

I have no desire to have a waltz around this bush with this nonsense that you bring into every thread you post in

7seasrekeyed · Sep 5, 2017

Limey410v2 said:

The bible does not contradict itself, that is correct.

So then we must either reevaluate what the scriptures say about forgiveness, or reevaluate what John says about confession.

I will give you a perfect example of how things can be looked at differently

Colosions 3:13

"Bear with each other and forgive one another, as the lord forgave you

Mathew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive others when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive you 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your father will not forgive your sins.

So which one is it? One says forgive as you are forgiven, the other says, you must forgive, or you will not be forgiven.

So do I just choose which one fits me best? I can, one is under the Law and is determined by my actions, one is under grace, which is determined by His actions. I choose Grace. I can't live in both.

You see Jesus was teaching the Jews under the Old Covenant, he was teaching the Law, which is the perfect tutor to lead us to Him,where you had to release your neighbour from their sin against you, before you could go to the altar to be forgiven.

Paul is teaching under the New Covenant, which states, you ARE already forgiven, so out of that abundance, forgive others.

They don't contradict each other, they explain each other. Old to New

So anyway back to my original point.

If we are truly and fully forgiven, and we embrace that forgiveness and walk in the newness of it, then asking for forgiveness is a rejection of what Christ accomplished on the cross.
It's like saying, " I believe in what you did, but...just in-case you left one behind, please forgive that one."

So we must look at 1 John 1:9 under the light of our full forgiveness and cleanliness and righteousness given to us by God.

it seems you have had a little tutoring on the side

Jesus was teaching the law, was He now?

so we don't have to listen to Him, right?

LOL!

that host that looks down from heaven is shuddering for you right now

sorry you have fallen for that. it is false teaching

7seasrekeyed · Sep 5, 2017

so we have gone from 'we don't have to ask for forgiveness anymore because we are in the light to 'we don't have to listen to Jesus because He taught the law'

that is what people learn from Ellis and others of the new theology school of 'we know better than God'

he has some very attentive students

there is wickedness in that teaching

how many here think we don't have to listen to Jesus because He was speaking to the Jews? or teaching the law or law?

Gabriel2020 · Sep 5, 2017

Right, because after any conviction comes a sentence.I keep telling people that a believer's sins are covered, and are no longer counted against that person. God forbid that we continue to sin that grace might abound. Some people believe that way and take salvation for granted. It's that ,Oh don't worry, I'm covered syndrome.

Joseph888 · Sep 5, 2017

If God is not accusing you of your sin anymore and no longer imputing your sin to you. Then he is not going to convict you of your sin unless you are still guilty willfully sinning in unbelief. He is not going to convict you of your sin if he doesn't remember your sin. My chastisement about my sin was when God used a man of God to rebuke me about my sin and if I didn't get right with him through the plan of salvation that I was on the way to hell. So I felt conviction about my sin in my heart and I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I have received the chastisement of the cross for my sin. I no longer willfully sin in unbelief but I still willfully sin in the body of Christ and I do believe in him.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Cee · Sep 5, 2017

Let's talk about OBEDIENCE.

First off,

YES! We have to obey what Jesus teaches.

Starting first with agreeing with Him about who He says we are.

There is no passing by this statement. You have to come in agreement with it, so the rest of His truth has a place to land in your heart.

If you don't obey who He says you are in Him, you'll go back to trying to be something instead of having faith in Him.

And THIS is disobedience.

Consider the accuser when he met Jesus.

God says this...

Mark 1:11 And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Jesus is told He is a Son, He is loved, and God is well pleased with Him.

If Jesus is YOUR righteousness, why WOULDN'T you believe this about yourself?

I'll tell you why.

Because of your accuser.

Notice how Jesus is tested AFTER God just gets done telling Jesus He is His Son.

Matt 4:1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

How was Jesus temped? By the accuser questioning His identity.

The Accuser says, well if you're the Son of God like God says then DO this....

This is the temptation of the accuser.

You get to believe you are who He says you are. Or you can try to still try to be it.

One is obedience and the other is disobedience.

You get to choose.

But remember this, it is ONLY faith that pleases God.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 5, 2017

I have a question,

why do people think the HS needs to convict a believer they are a sinner, considering in order to become a believer you have to acknowledge you are a sinner to begin with? Why would he have to continue with hat convicting part of his witness to God to the world?

In John 16 8, the HS is convicting the world they are sinners (it is a singular noun) not convicting them of ever single sin, so I do not get why peopl can not understand he does. It need to convict a believer they are sinners, they already know it!

notuptome · Sep 5, 2017

The Holy Spirit convicts a Christian when he sins. The Holy Spirit is called along side to help us in our walk through this world. We are truly saved from the power of sin which is eternal condemnation. We still must walk in a sin cursed world to be a witness of the saving grace of God. We are admonished not to grieve the Holy Spirit and are warned of quenching the Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit leads us into paths of righteousness for the glory of God.

The Holy Spirit helps us to know what we ought to do in every situation we face.

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Pride goes before the fall so we must exercise care not to be lifted up thinking we are able to stand apart from the strength of the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Grace777x70 · Sep 5, 2017

Cee said:

Amen!

I believe it is initially from the faith of Jesus in that the Father would raise Him from the dead when He took on the sin of the world - from His faith - we get our faith to believe in Him.

The Father rose Jesus from the dead and He became the Righteous One - His own blood raised Him from the dead.

Hebrews 13:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the fleshI live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The gospel message is "The righteous shall live from faith to faith". In the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

I take one aspect of this as being from Christ's faith which produces faith in us when we hear of Him.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Where does this faith come from?

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The revelation of gospel of the grace of God in Christ is paramount in growing up in Christ.

NayborBear · Sep 5, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Seems again, like word usages, or terminology, are coming into play, as it so often happens, When GOD, is "working a work", in different people! Because, as is seen, and lessly or morly heatedly cussed and discussed.....Better yet! Lemme ask y'all this question, as it may aid in this discussion. WHEN, not if the angels of the Lord of the Harvest, after explaining to the Lord, that "Seems, we are unable to seperate the "wheat" from the tares here!"....And what does Jesus fact actually teach concerning this very matter! Dunno the actual chapter and verse, but (paraphrasing here now), The Lord of the harvest tells the "harvesting angels": "Just bring the WHOLE CLUMP to ME, and, "I'll", take care of it!"....Is this more like what people are trying so hard to describe, and/or descern? Yet, striving oh so hard in a "re-naming", because, many many people think this particular "work" does not occur, until one is pushing up daisies?...Or, is it that this particular work, or act, by the Lord, cannot be happening in lil 'ol me?...so, they expend tremendous amounts of energies, and cull tremendous amounts of spirtual forces, in their efforts of pursuading everyone, that this particular "work" is not happening! So?...It MUST be something else!....ie, people?....SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

So?....When does this happen?...As everyone is different?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 5, 2017

NayborBear said:

Seems again, like word usages, or terminology, are coming into play, as it so often happens, When GOD, is "working a work", in different people! Because, as is seen, and lessly or morly heatedly cussed and discussed.....Better yet! Lemme ask y'all this question, as it may aid in this discussion. WHEN, not if the angels of the Lord of the Harvest, after explaining to the Lord, that "Seems, we are unable to seperate the "wheat" from the tares here!"....And what does Jesus fact actually teach concerning this very matter! Dunno the actual chapter and verse, but (paraphrasing here now), The Lord of the harvest tells the "harvesting angels": "Just bring the WHOLE CLUMP to ME, and, "I'll", take care of it!"....Is this more like what people are trying so hard to describe, and/or descern? Yet, striving oh so hard in a "re-naming", because, many many people think this particular "work" does not occur, until one is pushing up daisies?...Or, is it that this particular work, or act, by the Lord, cannot be happening in lil 'ol me?...so, they expend tremendous amounts of energies, and cull tremendous amounts of spirtual forces, in their efforts of pursuading everyone, that this particular "work" is not happening! So?...It MUST be something else!....ie, people?....SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

So?....When does this happen?...As everyone is different?

i belief self rghteousnss happens anytime we use the word I,

I did this

I did that

I must do this

I must do that

I am righteous, I am not a sinner, I am worthy of HS love, I .....

if we we look at what people say, how many I's or ME's are used?

If there is a lot, probably. Or much humility involved, humility looks to boast or serve others, not self.

Grace777x70 · Sep 5, 2017

I have always said that the words of Jesus need to be viewed to whom He was speaking to at the time. Jesus was born under the law so that He might redeem those that were under the law.

The words of Jesus brought life to those that saw their need of a Savior and it also brought death to those that were self-righteous - like the Pharisees.

To those that knew they needed Him - He gave them words of grace but not to those that relied on their own self-righteousness and law-keeping - He spoke the Law to them to expose their need of a Savior.

When Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and calling them "Vipers" - we don't put Jesus' words unto us His children.

Don't take someone else's medicine. That is mis-applying the words of Jesus.

All the words of Jesus are to be viewed "in the context" they were given and all scripture needs to be filtered through the revelation of the finished work of Christ after the cross and resurrection.

This is why we don't tell people to keep the 10 commandments now that we are in the New Covenant if they want to inherit eternal life like Jesus told the ruler who thought he had kept the commandments from his youth.

But Jesus' words are "never irrelevant".

Here is a view of Matthew 6 and forgiveness through the finished work of Christ. I like to use this site sometimes as it has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. Many of us have the same questions.

Quote:

Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15)

The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.

So why did Jesus say this:

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)

This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.

1. Jesus is preaching law

As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.

Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.

The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.

Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.

2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)

Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.

Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:

In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)

Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.

It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.

And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)

Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.

“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross!

To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).

The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”

Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!

3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need

What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.

However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).

Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.

It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!

The followers of Jesus still know that He has the words of eternal life!

Unquote:

Here is the link below if anyone is interested. Bless you!

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/08/...tthew-6v14-15/

NayborBear · Sep 5, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

I gotta run here....See what transpires when I gets back......lol..wanted to add some more...but ran outta time on edit..oh well...those
little" things that ire's one so big!...LOL!

preacher4truth · Sep 5, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Although I must disagree with you that a true convert remains worldly, I wish to address the above.

That fault of those who remain stunted in their growth lies with at least two persons: themselves and their pastor.

It's been said by many pastors to their congregations for years: "Today I am preaching milk to you, bottom shelf theology, putting the cookie jar, theologically speaking on the bottom shelf!" (They say this as if they should receive praise for stooping so low for others off of their high theological pedestal!)

And they've done this for years, feeding them milk, and then wonder why a Christian of 30 years in church still has the head of an infant and the same mentality, spiritually speaking.

Perhaps the pastors themselves haven't begun to understand the Word and meat of the Word, and aren't yet weaned themselves?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 5, 2017

NayborBear said:

Look forward to your return!

eternally-gratefull · Sep 5, 2017

preacher4truth said:

I do do not think a tre convert remains worldly, I think they change some habits, as they are new creatures, I just think babes never learn so their growth is stunted, but even they wil. It act like the world.

Gabriel2020 · Sep 5, 2017

There is no conviction, only grievance of the Holy Spirit. There is no scripture on conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Limey410v2 · Sep 5, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

So you have no actual rebuttal, other than that?

Jesus was perfect. By what standard was He perfect? The only standard the Jews knew, The Law. So how else and what else would He teach? He was called Rabbi, teacher and Master. Those were rabbinical titles, do you think they would give those titles to someone who was teaching something else?

Even Nicodemus, who was chief among the pharisees called him Rabbi, teacher come from God.

I am sorry you don't see it, I however will not falsely say that the host that looks down from heaven is shuddering for you right now.

7seasrekeyed · Sep 5, 2017

Limey410v2 said:

oh you wanted a rebuttal?

I can serve that up too

understand I have been serving it up long before you got here and it gets really really old

but I will humor you since you asked so nicely

one thing at this moment though...first of all you say Jesus was speaking to the Jews so we don't have to apply what He said cause He was teaching 'law'

now however, you use Nicodemus and say that even he called Jesus Rabbi

Jesus is STILL everyone's Rabbi

what a perfect example of the many holes easy grace crawls in and out of.

first of all, we are told don't listen to Jesus...now we use Nicodemus and want to call Jesus Rabbi

you cannot make this stuff up!

7seasrekeyed · Sep 5, 2017

this gets its very own response

you are attempting to be clever here, but you are illustrating your ignorance of scripture with spades

it seems you actually do NOT know that Jesus was both God and man

the Jews accused Jesus of being a devil and healing by the power of the devil.

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

now go ahead and explain how that is law

explain why the teachers of the law called Jesus a devil

if you cannot (which of course you cannot) don't forget to say I am attacking you. that is the usual response for a rebuttal from scripture that refutes false teaching

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

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