Nehushtan

[gdyloves]

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

Yes that's correct he did say that and it is true.
Doesn't make him God

 

[gdyloves]

So from this you concluded that Jesus is not God. Wow, what a jump.
Do you not find it interesting that Jesus calls himself God and that the Father also called him God.
And do you not realize that Jesus is the God of the O T whom you just quoted?

How is it a jump?

Fyi, If I represent somebody that doesn't make me that person, it makes me a REPRESENTATIVE of that person.

Where did Jesus say "I am the father"

 

[Mem]

Jesus is like the Nehushtan, and if you recall Gods people were in error for worshipping it.

Because While it is understandable how an item which brought miraculous healing could become an object of worship, it was still blatant disobedience to God’s commands (Exodus 20:4–5). The bronze serpent was God’s method of deliverance during the incident recorded in Number 21
Nehushtan should be a powerful reminder to us all that even good things—and good people—can become idols in our lives. Our praise, worship, and adoration are to be directed to God alone. Nothing else, regardless of its amazing history, is worthy.

...worshiping Jesus is like worshiping a snake, albeit a good snake? No... just, no.

but anyway, did the people even worship the golden serpent on the pole, or has this been presumed? I do recall the account of the golden calf.... and, Jesus is like the red heifer, also, but not in anyway a blind, deaf, mute idol of stone, wood, or even gold, as precious as gold might be.

 

[gdyloves]

as much as I appreciate you putting forth effort in quoting so many scriptures,you particularly don't fathom,Matthew chp. 4 9-10
"And saith unto him,all these things will I give thee,if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
"Then saith Jesus unti him,Get thee hence,Satan:for it is written,Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God,and him only shalt thou serve.
Jesus telling satan that he will not bow to him for he is God,also you have overlooked seemingly,a distinct and helpful part of the entire chapter of matthew chp.4 confusing things for yourself,Matthew Chp 4. verses 5-7
"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city,and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,"
"And saith unto him,If thou be the Son of God,cast thyself down:for it is written,He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:and in their hands they shall bear thee up,lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."
"Jesus said unto him,It is written again,Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
referring to satan that he is God and won't be tempted by him even in a flesh form and showing his authority and wisdom evidently to satan.

God can't be tempted, but Jesus was tempted; therefore, Jesus is not God

 

[IamWhoIam]

Yes that's correct he did say that and it is true.
Doesn't make him God

Jh1:1
In The beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jh1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

 

[IamWhoIam]

9Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. 10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent himaway empty. 11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty. 12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him. 14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. 15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? 16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

[oldhermit]

How is it a jump?

Fyi, If I represent somebody that doesn't make me that person, it makes me a REPRESENTATIVE of that person.

Where did Jesus say "I am the father"

I am not going to waste a lot of time with you because it is quite likely that you will be banned from this site very soon. However, Jesus does not say he is the Father but Isaiah does. Jesus is not a representative, he is God in the flesh. Do you not believe the testimony of John on this point?

 

[IamWhoIam]

I am not going to waste a lot of time with you because it is quite likely that you will be banned from this site very soon. However, Jesus does not say he is the Father but Isaiah does. Jesus is not a representative, he is God in the flesh. Do you not believe the testimony of John on this point?

I like your statement Sir, Jesus is not about being prideful or of bolstering upon himself.

 

[IamWhoIam]

John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[Lance_72]

This topic seems to be coming up a lot lately. We have a few in Chat who believe that Jesus isn't God as well.

 

[Mem]

This topic seems to be coming up a lot lately. We have a few in Chat who believe that Jesus isn't God as well.

Yes, that is interesting that it is. Considering there is no such thing as coincidence, perhaps this is because we are about to find out, exactly Who He Is, very soon? And, I have always wondered whether this is the 'million dollar question' that separates the sheep from the goats...

 

[garee]

Worshiping a God who is not a man as us in respect to the temporal flesh called the Son of man did bring doubt and should if we are not to walk by sight.

Doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief or what the scriptures call no faith is. When the disciples asked for a sign as evidence He did oblige using it as a lesson to the faithless disciples who did doubt

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

.He was not setting his approval on those who would violate the second commandment looking for a fleshly God as if God did have a mother and father beginning of Spirit life and end thereof. .

When he left he left a clear warning to prevent men from following after the antichrists, the many that was there.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16

 

[Nehemiah6]

God can't be tempted, but Jesus was tempted; therefore, Jesus is not God

It seems like you have absolutely no idea about who Jesus is or what that temptation meant. Once you understand and believe that He is the God-Man, you will also understand how he dealt with those temptations.

 

[bluto]

Jesus is like the Nehushtan, and if you recall Gods people were in error for worshipping it.

Because While it is understandable how an item which brought miraculous healing could become an object of worship, it was still blatant disobedience to God’s commands (Exodus 20:4–5). The bronze serpent was God’s method of deliverance during the incident recorded in Number 21
Nehushtan should be a powerful reminder to us all that even good things—and good people—can become idols in our lives. Our praise, worship, and adoration are to be directed to God alone. Nothing else, regardless of its amazing history, is worthy.

Hi gdyloves. Did you get your information from the following site? https://www.gotquestions.org/Nehushtan.html Also, can you please explain the significance of the bronze serpent that is mentioned by the Apostle John at John 3:14,15 with Jesus doing the speaking. Jesus is referencing Numbers 21:8, why? Also please read 2 Corinthians 5:21 for a clue. As to Jesus not being God in your opinion does it make sense (according to John 3:15) "that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life" if Jesus is simply a created man and not God?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[NotmebutHim]

Remember what the apostle John said about any spirit that does NOT confess that Christ Jesus has come in the flesh........

 

[kaylagrl]

I know the fundamentals of my faith, do you remember the fundamentals of your faith?


Exodus 20:4
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

Deuteronomy 5:8
'You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:5
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Deuteronomy 5:9
'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Isaiah 44:17
But the rest of it he makes into a god, his graven image He falls down before it and worships; he also prays to it and says, "Deliver me, for you are my god.

Psalm 106:38
And shed innocent blood, The blood of their sons and their daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; And the land was polluted with the blood.

Acts 7:41
"At that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands.

Deuteronomy 30:17
"But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them,

Psalm 81:9
"Let there be no strange god among you; Nor shall you worship any foreign god.

Exodus 23:13
"Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.

Deuteronomy 8:19
"It shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you will surely perish.

Hosea 3:1
Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by her husband, yet an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love raisin cakes."

Deuteronomy 7:4
"For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.

Jeremiah 5:19
"It shall come about when they say, 'Why has the LORD our God done all these things to us?' then you shall say to them, 'As you have forsaken Me and served foreign gods in your land, so you will serve strangers in a land that is not yours.'

2 Kings 17:35
with whom the LORD made a covenant and commanded them, saying, "You shall not fear other gods, nor bow down yourselves to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them.

Exodus 22:20
"He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the LORD alone, shall be utterly destroyed.

Psalm 106:19-20
They made a calf in Horeb And worshiped a molten image. Thus they exchanged their glory For the image of an ox that eats grass.

Colossians 2:18
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

Deuteronomy 4:19
"And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Deuteronomy 17:3
and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded,

Matthew 4:9-10
and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

Ezekiel 14:3-4
"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts and have put right before their faces the stumbling block of their iniquity Should I be consulted by them at all? "Therefore speak to them and tell them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Any man of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will be brought to give him an answer in the matter in view of the multitude of his idols,

Philippians 3:19
whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

No you don't know the fundamentals of the faith if you do not understand Jesus is God! Jesus is not an idol,to worship Him is not idolatry because He is God!! You are not a Christian if you do not understand this fact.Im sorry,I dont say that to people very often,but this is one thing that cannot be compromised. Jesus is God.

Jesus said in John "I and the Father are one.” But it doesn't end there.Look at the reaction of those He was speaking too...
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy,because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

In Isaiah it was prophesied the Messiah would be born and He would be called Emmanuel,which means "God with us". Matthew attests to this.


Isaiah also says "For to us a child is born,to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders.And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."Isaiah was a Jew,to call anyone else God was blasphemy,yet he called Jesus Mighty God.

In Daniel it is written..."“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.14 He was given authority,glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." Which was what Jesus said in Mark when He was before the Sanhedrin.

Mark 14-Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked.64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”They all condemned him as worthy of death.

In John Jesus said "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Why did they want to stone Him? Because He used the term "I AM" which the Jews knew was the name Moses was given for God. He is also saying He was alive before Abraham,He existed before His own birth,how is that possible unless He is God?

Colossians says He is "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

2:9-For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.


When Jesus made His entry into Jerusalem they took palm branches and went to meet Him saying "Hosanna,blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." Hosanna is a term of praise.

After Jesus calmed the storm and walked on water they worshiped Him in the boat. After His resurrection the women "clasped His feet and worshiped Him". Thomas who doubted Him said "My Lord and my God",Jesus never corrected Him or any who worshiped Him.

John said "“I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

Jesus is due all worship,all reverence,He is Holy,and He is God. If you don't understand this you are in grave danger. You can call yourself what you wish,but are not a Christian. I hope your heart and mind are opened to the truth before it is too late.

 

[Mem]

God can't be tempted, but Jesus was tempted; therefore, Jesus is not God

How is a conclusion that God can't be tempted derived from a directive to not tempt God, which satan clearly ignored (by tempting Jesus). Jesus referred to Deuteronomy 6:16 here, which goes on to say..."as ye tempted Him in Massah".

 

[gdyloves]

ok first of all in regards to getting banned from this forum, if a moderator believes i broke some rule or just plain out doesnt want me here then of course i will respect that i am not here to cause trouble, I am here just as you are to study the bible and hear the word of God.

second, i am not against Jesus and I am not denying je is our savior sent by God to bring light to those of us in the dark, I just dont agree that God and Jesus together make God. I believe that God independant from Jesus is still God, but Jesus apart from God is Just a man.

if that is a cause for me to be banned then God Bless.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe that God independant from Jesus is still God, but Jesus apart from God is Just a man.

Clearly you did not get this false idea from the Bible. So who indoctrinated you into this nonsense? If Jesus was just a man, He could not possibly shed His blood for the remission of sins and the redemption of sinners. Please note this Scripture carefully and believe it for your own salvation (if nothing else).

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Only God could purchase the Church with His own blood, and the one who shed His own precious blood was Jesus.

 

[kaylagrl]

Clearly you did not get this false idea from the Bible. So who indoctrinated you into this nonsense? If Jesus was just a man, He could not possibly shed His blood for the remission of sins and the redemption of sinners. Please note this Scripture carefully and believe it for your own salvation (if nothing else).

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Only God could purchase the Church with His own blood, and the one who shed His own precious blood was Jesus.

Very well said,good points. As I said,a person who does not believe Jesus is God,that He is deity,they are not a Christian. Mary didn't need anything but Joseph if Jesus was just a man. The Magi came to find and worship Him,why would they do that for just a man? No,people that do not believe Jesus is God are being indoctrinated by someone else,as you said.