Please let me know when you are all ready for this to return to it's true intent, and you are willing to drop the idea that this all about the Law and if we are to flow it today. When you are ready I will be as well. Until then I will just keep posting in a manner that reflect the true intent of the post, and perilously over look any post that is not in the spirit of the intent.
Lets talk about Paul
- Thread starter Rainrider
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What is the intent? What is your intent? I mean to talk about a person like Paul it is only fruitful if we can learn through him to live a closer life with the Lord. Thats we can find out without study the OT. Yes there is a lifechanging different between a life without and with the Lord. Would you say that your are the same as you were are before you became a christian? Do you have the same values. The same prioritys? The same goals? What is the same with Saul and Paul is that he was always eager to do what is right from Gods view. So when Jesus opened his eyes he saw that he was on a wrong way.
I would say it is not possible to build a complete picture from Paul with the informations we have. And without speculation. But for what should it be useful to speculate?
Take 5 persons who wants to do what you try to do and the result will be 5 different pictures from Paul. For what use? Is it not vastet time? Is it not better to study that what is reveamean For a christian from gentile background the OT laws, so far they are not repeat and taught after pentecost, have no specific meaning
I would say it is not possible to build a complete picture from Paul with the informations we have. And without speculation. But for what should it be useful to speculate?
Take 5 persons who wants to do what you try to do and the result will be 5 different pictures from Paul. For what use? Is it not vastet time? Is it not better to study that what is reveamean For a christian from gentile background the OT laws, so far they are not repeat and taught after pentecost, have no specific meaning
1 Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, passing judgment; for when you judge someone else, you are passing judgment against yourself; since you who are judging do the same things he does.
2 We know that God's judgment lands impartially on those who do such things;
3 do you think that you, a mere man passing judgment on others who do such things, yet doing them yourself, will escape the judgment of God?
Often in life we judge only from the making of our own hearts. This is what Paul is talking of here. As we sit around and pass judgment on on others, we seem to forget about our sin. Looking for any little thing wrong with other does seem be gaining ground, here in the USA it seems to the major pass time. Just look at the on going fight between the parties of our own government, the how the media acts, or the bickering between the church's. Paul warns about the folly of this, and reminds us that no matter what, we will all be judged. So rather than siting around worrying about what others may do or think, it may bet to start closer to home. Or as Yeshua said,
Mat 7:3 “And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4 Or perhaps you despise the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience; because you don't realize that God's kindness is intended to lead you to turn from your sins.
5 But by your stubbornness, by your unrepentant heart, you are storing up anger for yourself on the Day of Anger, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed;
6 for he will pay back each one according to his deeds.
Pay back according to their deeds. This same idea can be found in Job 34:11, Mat. 16:27, and 2 Cor 5:10. Knowing that we are human, and not one of us is perfect, should we not stop and look into our lives, before jumping on others? I know that I am just as bad at the next on this, yet I am working on it, and spend time in pray everyday asking that He help me to over come this petty way of acting.
7 To those who seek glory, honor and immortality by perseverance in doing good, he will pay back eternal life.
Paul in no way is telling us that we can earn our way though good deeds. Rather Paul may well be reminding of the absolute standard of HaShem's own Holiness. A standard that we can never hope to reach in this life. Yet we should strive to achieve.
It has been said that Paul is telling us that it only by perfection that we can find acceptance before HaShem. This however is not what Paul is saying at all. After all does Pula not make it clear in many of his writtings that is only by HaShem's gift through faith? I don't think that anyone that has a true understanding of Paul, can ever say that he thought it was by our own works and power.
8 But to those who are self-seeking, who disobey the truth and obey evil, he will pay back wrath and anger.
9 Yes, he will pay back misery and anguish to every human being who does evil, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile;
10 but glory and honor and shalom to everyone who keeps doing what is good, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile.
Now just why would Paul say the Jew first then to the Gentile? Some will say it is because Salvation came to the Jew first then the Gentile. In a way you would be right, yet is there more to it than that? Might it also be that Israel was given the Torah, and with it's knowledge, they should have a better understanding of how HaShem works? I have heard this in my life time. Yet I ask, would this place higher standards on Israel than on the rest of the world? I think it would, and as we know, HaShem is no respecter of person's. He does place a heavier burden on any one than on others. Yet with that, we are faced with dealing with the idea that salvation, and Gospel was to go the Jew first. So what do you think on this?
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who have sinned outside the framework of Torah will die outside the framework of Torah; and all who have sinned within the framework of Torah will be judged by Torah.
13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God's sight.
Outside the frame work of Torah. As one looks to other translations on this, it becomes cleat that is not talking about people that keep the law or don't keep it. Rather it is speaking of having it, as way to guide ones walk. The gentile who never had this, at lest not in Paul's day, and many Jews never had it in hand. The Torah never made a signal claim that through it one could be saved without faith. You will also never hear that statement from me. However as we find in 13, (it is also the same in somke 14 other translations) it is the doers of the law that will found in right standing.
Now before any you go saying SEE I KNOW THIS ABOUT THE LAW, you would be wrong. As every one here will agree that to worship ideas, misuse the name of HaShem, brake the Sabbath, (ever if you don't follow the 7th day sabbath) dishonor your parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, covet, commit perverse sexual acts, and so on, is sin. Even if one does turn their life over to Yeshua, to do any of the mentioned acts would still be sin. In admitting this, you also admit that the Law is just as valid today as it was the day it was given. To deny this, would to admit that you don't understand what turning your life over really is. After all if sin is so readily on your lips, then you need to look long and hard at your relationship with HaShem.
14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don't have Torah, for themselves are Torah!
15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts. Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them
I really like this translation better,
Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
The Holy Spirit that lives inside of use all, uses the Laws of HaShem to convict use, when we do wrong, that would be that felling we get when we did wrong, even though we may not have meant to. He also uses it to pat us on the back when we do the right thing. Ok so it is a real pat on the back, and the Holy Spirit does yell out, That A Boy. Still that feeling of satisfaction is there. Am I removing grace from the pitcher? Nope. Faith? Nope. As I have always maintained, Salvation come by Faith, as it did with Abram, followed by obedience, as Abram showed us in his life. This idea is also backed in verse 7 of this same chapter, and in Jamse 1:22.
16 on a day when God passes judgment on people's inmost secrets. (According to the Good News as I proclaim it, he does this through the Messiah Yeshua.)
I was unsure where to brake this. So here it is. Our innermost secrets. This would the things we do or think that we think others have no clue about. It is the idea on of this writer, ad others, that we will be judged by what is in our hearts. Even we did something wrong, like say we take a life, and in doing that wrong, we save a life. Then that wrong would not be murder. If in hearts we only acted to save a life. Now if we acted to both save a life, and to take vengeance for a wrong that had been done to us, then that act would be murder. Even if we were hailed a hero by the world.
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rest on Torah and boast about God
18 and know his will and give your approval to what is right, because you have been instructed from the Torah;
19 and if you have persuaded yourself that you are a guide to the blind, a light in the darkness,
20 an instructor for the spiritually unaware and a teacher of children, since in the Torah you have the embodiment of knowledge and truth;
21 then, you who teach others, don't you teach yourself? Preaching, "Thou shalt not steal," do you steal?
22 Saying, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? Detesting idols, do you commit idolatrous acts?
23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? -
To call yourself a Jew when you are not, is a sin of it's own. So with that in mind I would tend to think this is talking to the Jews, as well as any that wish to teach the Torah. Yes that would include myself. Although I am not Jewish. We are being warnd that to teach one thing and live another is not only a sin, it brings dishonor upon HaShem. Now how can man bring dishonor upon HaShem? Well it really isn't on him, it is on his word. As they are one and the same, (see John chapter 1) to dishonor one dishonors them both.
24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
Is. 52:5 and Eze. 36:20 are what Paul is alluding to here. The Use of the name Yahovah,(as one Rabbi informed me how it was said) ended when Israel was in captivity in Babylon, due it's misuse by the Gentiles. They twisted how it was said and use it to cast insults at the Jews. Sadly due to this and other prohibitions on the use of this name, I am almost convinced I was not given the proper name, rather something that sounded close. Do I fault the man for this? Not at all, it is after all I that tells others I will let HaShem be my judge. So it is that I should also let him judge others, and understand that it is not my place to do so. Though we all do judge matters in our lives, this is not the same as judging a man a sinner.
25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
It is of value in that it is a sign of the Abrahamic covenant can be a valid point made here. Though if one is a part of this covenant, yet rejects the Torah, also a part of that covenant, then they are no better off than a gentile that has no part in it.
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
This passage can be a bit misleading if one does not first understand that this is not talking of physical, rather spiritual circumcision. To teach that this speaking only of physical would be both misleading, and faults. Also to use this as a way of showing that one must real on Torah, with out faith would also be just as wrong. As I have made clear that salvation is by faith, followed by obedience, I find it kind of funny when folks try to twist that into me saying salvation by law, or works. Yet it is still done.
27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
b'rit-milah, Literally covenant of circumcision, it may also mean the act or ceremony of.
Paul is saying that by the vary existence and manifestly righteous behavior of believing Gentiles, should stand as a continual judgment for them. However in the eyes of an Orthodox Jew, (at lest the ones I have spoken with) we are seen as having more than one God, and rejecting the Laws of HaShem. They pointed to teh idea that HaShem, Yeshua, and Ruach Ha-Kodesh are said to be 3 different beings. They could not believe it when I told them they had us wrong. That they are in fact one and the same. I showed them in John Chapter one how that was true. It was then that I learned more about eh 72 names of HaShem, and why they use HaShem rather than Yahovah. (Once more not real sure that is the true way it is said.)
They also got a little upset when I pointed out that some, (not all) Christians see there need for the temple as a form of Idolatry. In that they simply don't understand it is not something the Jewish people worship, rather it the place they do so.
28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.
Though this is seen in many ways, have you see this last part from the view point that follows.
A Jewish friend sees this in the following manner. One can know a Jewish person is Jewish with out having to see the foreskin is missing. It shows in everything they do. Even in the things that others don't see, the heart of the Jew remains the same. This is what Paul calls spiritual circumcision. Out word circumcision can only be seen if we Jews go around with out paints on. The latter would not bring praise from anyone, rather condemnation from all. The former on the other hand, can't bring praise from man, as man does not know what you do when you close the door.
He went on to point out that in our own NT Yeshua points this out, when he speaks of long winded prayers, and bragging of good deeds.
2 We know that God's judgment lands impartially on those who do such things;
3 do you think that you, a mere man passing judgment on others who do such things, yet doing them yourself, will escape the judgment of God?
Often in life we judge only from the making of our own hearts. This is what Paul is talking of here. As we sit around and pass judgment on on others, we seem to forget about our sin. Looking for any little thing wrong with other does seem be gaining ground, here in the USA it seems to the major pass time. Just look at the on going fight between the parties of our own government, the how the media acts, or the bickering between the church's. Paul warns about the folly of this, and reminds us that no matter what, we will all be judged. So rather than siting around worrying about what others may do or think, it may bet to start closer to home. Or as Yeshua said,
Mat 7:3 “And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4 Or perhaps you despise the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience; because you don't realize that God's kindness is intended to lead you to turn from your sins.
5 But by your stubbornness, by your unrepentant heart, you are storing up anger for yourself on the Day of Anger, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed;
6 for he will pay back each one according to his deeds.
Pay back according to their deeds. This same idea can be found in Job 34:11, Mat. 16:27, and 2 Cor 5:10. Knowing that we are human, and not one of us is perfect, should we not stop and look into our lives, before jumping on others? I know that I am just as bad at the next on this, yet I am working on it, and spend time in pray everyday asking that He help me to over come this petty way of acting.
7 To those who seek glory, honor and immortality by perseverance in doing good, he will pay back eternal life.
Paul in no way is telling us that we can earn our way though good deeds. Rather Paul may well be reminding of the absolute standard of HaShem's own Holiness. A standard that we can never hope to reach in this life. Yet we should strive to achieve.
It has been said that Paul is telling us that it only by perfection that we can find acceptance before HaShem. This however is not what Paul is saying at all. After all does Pula not make it clear in many of his writtings that is only by HaShem's gift through faith? I don't think that anyone that has a true understanding of Paul, can ever say that he thought it was by our own works and power.
8 But to those who are self-seeking, who disobey the truth and obey evil, he will pay back wrath and anger.
9 Yes, he will pay back misery and anguish to every human being who does evil, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile;
10 but glory and honor and shalom to everyone who keeps doing what is good, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile.
Now just why would Paul say the Jew first then to the Gentile? Some will say it is because Salvation came to the Jew first then the Gentile. In a way you would be right, yet is there more to it than that? Might it also be that Israel was given the Torah, and with it's knowledge, they should have a better understanding of how HaShem works? I have heard this in my life time. Yet I ask, would this place higher standards on Israel than on the rest of the world? I think it would, and as we know, HaShem is no respecter of person's. He does place a heavier burden on any one than on others. Yet with that, we are faced with dealing with the idea that salvation, and Gospel was to go the Jew first. So what do you think on this?
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who have sinned outside the framework of Torah will die outside the framework of Torah; and all who have sinned within the framework of Torah will be judged by Torah.
13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God's sight.
Outside the frame work of Torah. As one looks to other translations on this, it becomes cleat that is not talking about people that keep the law or don't keep it. Rather it is speaking of having it, as way to guide ones walk. The gentile who never had this, at lest not in Paul's day, and many Jews never had it in hand. The Torah never made a signal claim that through it one could be saved without faith. You will also never hear that statement from me. However as we find in 13, (it is also the same in somke 14 other translations) it is the doers of the law that will found in right standing.
Now before any you go saying SEE I KNOW THIS ABOUT THE LAW, you would be wrong. As every one here will agree that to worship ideas, misuse the name of HaShem, brake the Sabbath, (ever if you don't follow the 7th day sabbath) dishonor your parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, covet, commit perverse sexual acts, and so on, is sin. Even if one does turn their life over to Yeshua, to do any of the mentioned acts would still be sin. In admitting this, you also admit that the Law is just as valid today as it was the day it was given. To deny this, would to admit that you don't understand what turning your life over really is. After all if sin is so readily on your lips, then you need to look long and hard at your relationship with HaShem.
14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don't have Torah, for themselves are Torah!
15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts. Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them
I really like this translation better,
Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
The Holy Spirit that lives inside of use all, uses the Laws of HaShem to convict use, when we do wrong, that would be that felling we get when we did wrong, even though we may not have meant to. He also uses it to pat us on the back when we do the right thing. Ok so it is a real pat on the back, and the Holy Spirit does yell out, That A Boy. Still that feeling of satisfaction is there. Am I removing grace from the pitcher? Nope. Faith? Nope. As I have always maintained, Salvation come by Faith, as it did with Abram, followed by obedience, as Abram showed us in his life. This idea is also backed in verse 7 of this same chapter, and in Jamse 1:22.
16 on a day when God passes judgment on people's inmost secrets. (According to the Good News as I proclaim it, he does this through the Messiah Yeshua.)
I was unsure where to brake this. So here it is. Our innermost secrets. This would the things we do or think that we think others have no clue about. It is the idea on of this writer, ad others, that we will be judged by what is in our hearts. Even we did something wrong, like say we take a life, and in doing that wrong, we save a life. Then that wrong would not be murder. If in hearts we only acted to save a life. Now if we acted to both save a life, and to take vengeance for a wrong that had been done to us, then that act would be murder. Even if we were hailed a hero by the world.
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rest on Torah and boast about God
18 and know his will and give your approval to what is right, because you have been instructed from the Torah;
19 and if you have persuaded yourself that you are a guide to the blind, a light in the darkness,
20 an instructor for the spiritually unaware and a teacher of children, since in the Torah you have the embodiment of knowledge and truth;
21 then, you who teach others, don't you teach yourself? Preaching, "Thou shalt not steal," do you steal?
22 Saying, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? Detesting idols, do you commit idolatrous acts?
23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? -
To call yourself a Jew when you are not, is a sin of it's own. So with that in mind I would tend to think this is talking to the Jews, as well as any that wish to teach the Torah. Yes that would include myself. Although I am not Jewish. We are being warnd that to teach one thing and live another is not only a sin, it brings dishonor upon HaShem. Now how can man bring dishonor upon HaShem? Well it really isn't on him, it is on his word. As they are one and the same, (see John chapter 1) to dishonor one dishonors them both.
24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
Is. 52:5 and Eze. 36:20 are what Paul is alluding to here. The Use of the name Yahovah,(as one Rabbi informed me how it was said) ended when Israel was in captivity in Babylon, due it's misuse by the Gentiles. They twisted how it was said and use it to cast insults at the Jews. Sadly due to this and other prohibitions on the use of this name, I am almost convinced I was not given the proper name, rather something that sounded close. Do I fault the man for this? Not at all, it is after all I that tells others I will let HaShem be my judge. So it is that I should also let him judge others, and understand that it is not my place to do so. Though we all do judge matters in our lives, this is not the same as judging a man a sinner.
25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
It is of value in that it is a sign of the Abrahamic covenant can be a valid point made here. Though if one is a part of this covenant, yet rejects the Torah, also a part of that covenant, then they are no better off than a gentile that has no part in it.
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
This passage can be a bit misleading if one does not first understand that this is not talking of physical, rather spiritual circumcision. To teach that this speaking only of physical would be both misleading, and faults. Also to use this as a way of showing that one must real on Torah, with out faith would also be just as wrong. As I have made clear that salvation is by faith, followed by obedience, I find it kind of funny when folks try to twist that into me saying salvation by law, or works. Yet it is still done.
27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
b'rit-milah, Literally covenant of circumcision, it may also mean the act or ceremony of.
Paul is saying that by the vary existence and manifestly righteous behavior of believing Gentiles, should stand as a continual judgment for them. However in the eyes of an Orthodox Jew, (at lest the ones I have spoken with) we are seen as having more than one God, and rejecting the Laws of HaShem. They pointed to teh idea that HaShem, Yeshua, and Ruach Ha-Kodesh are said to be 3 different beings. They could not believe it when I told them they had us wrong. That they are in fact one and the same. I showed them in John Chapter one how that was true. It was then that I learned more about eh 72 names of HaShem, and why they use HaShem rather than Yahovah. (Once more not real sure that is the true way it is said.)
They also got a little upset when I pointed out that some, (not all) Christians see there need for the temple as a form of Idolatry. In that they simply don't understand it is not something the Jewish people worship, rather it the place they do so.
28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.
Though this is seen in many ways, have you see this last part from the view point that follows.
A Jewish friend sees this in the following manner. One can know a Jewish person is Jewish with out having to see the foreskin is missing. It shows in everything they do. Even in the things that others don't see, the heart of the Jew remains the same. This is what Paul calls spiritual circumcision. Out word circumcision can only be seen if we Jews go around with out paints on. The latter would not bring praise from anyone, rather condemnation from all. The former on the other hand, can't bring praise from man, as man does not know what you do when you close the door.
He went on to point out that in our own NT Yeshua points this out, when he speaks of long winded prayers, and bragging of good deeds.
I am not trying to nitpick here. I just felt the need to ask someone that I feel would be honest. Or at lest blow it out of proportion. Let me thank you for that now.
I am not asking as I think the law is the answer to salvation, as should be clear from my last post.
Yet, why is that I never see anyone say Faith, followed by obedience? After all if we have faith, yet live as though our sin isn't counted, are we not still lost, even in our faith?
I am not asking as I think the law is the answer to salvation, as should be clear from my last post.
Yet, why is that I never see anyone say Faith, followed by obedience? After all if we have faith, yet live as though our sin isn't counted, are we not still lost, even in our faith?
Ah, good question...
When I say Faith I mean... we hear and do what the Lord intructs us to do.
So I read the Messiah teach me to Love GOD with all my heart and being and to love my neighbour as myself...
I believe Him and set my heart to obey.
Love is a verb and the love shown to me is so great and un deserved.
If we are to be judged by the Royal law.. we have Faith that worketh by love.
I have not seen enough of your teaching to critique it on substance. I do see that you tend to be somewhat arrogant.
You are quite new here. You should not expect everything you say to be well received because you said it.
In fact, even the most respected members of the forum treat those who disagree with them with respect.
Superciliousness does NOT promote credibility.
You are quite new here. You should not expect everything you say to be well received because you said it.
In fact, even the most respected members of the forum treat those who disagree with them with respect.
Superciliousness does NOT promote credibility.
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So do you do it? Do you obey?
Galatians 2:16 [FONT="]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[/FONT]Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
[/FONT]Flesh people can't be perfect according to their work at the law. This should be abundantly clear by now.
So we have all these Judaizers that claim to be obedient to the law but they aren't.
There is a secret to obedience and it is contained in Salvation. There is a secret to all of our blessings and none of them are contained in the law because we don't obey the law to the extent that is required to be owed this blessing.
There's not an extra blessing in trying your hardest to obey your own understanding of the law. All of our blessings are in Christ.
Philippians 3:8-14
[FONT="]8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
If you want to talk about Paul you can't ignore his teaching of leaving the law behind in favor of the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Unless you have a certain agenda. Or you just don't understand. [/FONT]
Galatians 2:16 [FONT="]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[/FONT]Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
[/FONT]Flesh people can't be perfect according to their work at the law. This should be abundantly clear by now.
So we have all these Judaizers that claim to be obedient to the law but they aren't.
There is a secret to obedience and it is contained in Salvation. There is a secret to all of our blessings and none of them are contained in the law because we don't obey the law to the extent that is required to be owed this blessing.
There's not an extra blessing in trying your hardest to obey your own understanding of the law. All of our blessings are in Christ.
Philippians 3:8-14
[FONT="]8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
If you want to talk about Paul you can't ignore his teaching of leaving the law behind in favor of the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Unless you have a certain agenda. Or you just don't understand. [/FONT]
We not nly obey, we continually learn to obey our Father.
You still think og the law as laws in stone. You still believe the Commandments are in stone.
Once written in our inward parts, that is on the flesh tablets of our hearts, those laws and commandments are
understood by the Holy Spirit and become only God's wisdom for s all.
Do not say to be obedient we must go to the written laws of Moses, all 611, for that is just plain being a fool
Aat least anyone who claims to believe Jesus Christ would be a fool to say such, because believing Jesus
Christ means we know He has fulfilled the law and the prophets, leaving only those laws which are counted in the three
principles He has given us, faith, mercy and justice.
If you cannot understand this, ask, and teh Holy Spirit will reveal it all to you. Do you think it foolish or not wisdom to honor your parents, not not covet, to not steal, to honor God, and so on? If so, I kpity your heart and soul.
We are children of obedience after coming to Christ, and God's wisdom has become our goal always to do.
If you still believe being obedient is obeying all of the laws of Moses you are more legalistic and more of a lawyer than a person who shows mercy, faith, and justice in the sight of God.
You still think og the law as laws in stone. You still believe the Commandments are in stone.
Once written in our inward parts, that is on the flesh tablets of our hearts, those laws and commandments are
understood by the Holy Spirit and become only God's wisdom for s all.
Do not say to be obedient we must go to the written laws of Moses, all 611, for that is just plain being a fool
Aat least anyone who claims to believe Jesus Christ would be a fool to say such, because believing Jesus
Christ means we know He has fulfilled the law and the prophets, leaving only those laws which are counted in the three
principles He has given us, faith, mercy and justice.
If you cannot understand this, ask, and teh Holy Spirit will reveal it all to you. Do you think it foolish or not wisdom to honor your parents, not not covet, to not steal, to honor God, and so on? If so, I kpity your heart and soul.
We are children of obedience after coming to Christ, and God's wisdom has become our goal always to do.
If you still believe being obedient is obeying all of the laws of Moses you are more legalistic and more of a lawyer than a person who shows mercy, faith, and justice in the sight of God.
Being obedient isn't even about us.
We are the workmanship of God when we come to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Obedience is a gift.
Am I obedient? No. I'm not personally obedient. But I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will complete His Work in me and I will be perfectly obedient in His Time and His Will.
Am I sometimes obedient? Yes. Am I sometimes not obedient? Yes. So if I am sometimes not obedient what does that mean?
Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That's obedience. Are you doing it?[/FONT]
We are the workmanship of God when we come to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Obedience is a gift.
Am I obedient? No. I'm not personally obedient. But I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will complete His Work in me and I will be perfectly obedient in His Time and His Will.
Am I sometimes obedient? Yes. Am I sometimes not obedient? Yes. So if I am sometimes not obedient what does that mean?
Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That's obedience. Are you doing it?[/FONT]