Not By Works
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Do we all get it yet after 1800 pages?
These folks, PHart, loveme1, willybob, PeterJens, mj007 and others do not believe in the sufficiency of the work of Christ. They then do not believe the Gospel.
All they can do and teach, day in, day out is that which discredits the work of Christ and mitigates the true Gospel.
These folks, PHart, loveme1, willybob, PeterJens, mj007 and others do not believe in the sufficiency of the work of Christ. They then do not believe the Gospel.
All they can do and teach, day in, day out is that which discredits the work of Christ and mitigates the true Gospel.
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I believe. Therefore I am secure in my salvation:
I'm satisfying the present tense condition for being presently saved--I'm holding fast the word of the gospel. And my faith is not in vain because Christ is indeed risen from the dead (see vs.14, 17).
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)
I'm satisfying the present tense condition for being presently saved--I'm holding fast the word of the gospel. And my faith is not in vain because Christ is indeed risen from the dead (see vs.14, 17).
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James 2:14,
"14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.
"15, "And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food,
"16, "but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it?
17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead.
18, "But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works.
19, "You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder!
20, "But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?
21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place?
22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?
23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah.”
"24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone.
"25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
"26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works."
Hebrew 11:6, "For without the faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who comes to YHWH must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."
Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by the faith (H#530 faith/faithfulness)."
faith H#530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness
faith H#530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament) #530. אֱמוּנָה
emunah (53c); from 539; firmness, steadfastness, fidelity
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
Faith + no works = dead
Works + no faith = dead
John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."
Hebrew 11:6, "For without the faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who comes to YHWH must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."
Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by the faith (H#530 faith/faithfulness)."
faith H#530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness
faith H#530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament) #530. אֱמוּנָה
emunah (53c); from 539; firmness, steadfastness, fidelity
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
Faith + no works = dead
Works + no faith = dead
John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."
Deuteronomy 30:2, and shall turn back to יהוה your Elohim and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your being, you and your children,"
Jeremiah 9:21-25, “For death has come through our windows, has entered our palaces, cutting off the children from the streets, and the young men from the squares. Speak, “Thus declares יהוה, ‘The corpses of men shall fall as dung on the face of the field, like cuttings after the reaper, with none to gather them. Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, right-ruling, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה. See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised.”
Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”
Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”
1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of Yah?”
John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”
Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”
Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”
MAN.....Like I said...everyone I know is open to learning and instruction and in no way, shape or form denies Jesus and the word the way you do.....I do not dislike you, hate you, think ill of you PERSONALLY....it is your dogma that I despise because it denies JESUS, the verbiage of the bible, verb tense, scripture in context and equates to a self saving, working for dogma that denies the simple truth that JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith he begins in ALL while saving to the uttermost and KEEPING ONE SAVED by HIS POWER......end of story.....
YOU and I will NEVER agree as long as you deny the truth listed ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ in the above bolded......
YOU and I will NEVER agree as long as you deny the truth listed ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ in the above bolded......
I want to say, for the record, that although the aforementioned in my previous post who do preach a false gospel, this:
I do care about each of you, you are each made in the image of God. I respect you as fellow human beings.
The fact remains you are deceived by a false message, and others and I will refute this at every turn.
Christ is enough, there is no such thing as striving to continue to believe. Such teaching stems from both misunderstanding Scripture and taking it out of context. Saying the cross is not enough, and calling imputed righteousness a neat trick that does not work are all heresies, all byproducts of a false gospel.
I do care about each of you, you are each made in the image of God. I respect you as fellow human beings.
The fact remains you are deceived by a false message, and others and I will refute this at every turn.
Christ is enough, there is no such thing as striving to continue to believe. Such teaching stems from both misunderstanding Scripture and taking it out of context. Saying the cross is not enough, and calling imputed righteousness a neat trick that does not work are all heresies, all byproducts of a false gospel.
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"Forfeit your salvation" ....Wow
I cannot even respond to this, if only you truly understood what you are saying here and how it discounts and denies the entire gospel
It is impossible to forfeit one's salvation (eternal life) because then it is not really salvation (eternal life)
It really is pretty much that simple
I cannot even respond to this, if only you truly understood what you are saying here and how it discounts and denies the entire gospel
It is impossible to forfeit one's salvation (eternal life) because then it is not really salvation (eternal life)
It really is pretty much that simple
John 15:10, "“If you guard My commands, you shall stay in My love, even as I have guarded My Father’s commands and stay in His love.”
John 14:15, "“If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.”
John 14:21, “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”
John 14:23, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him."
Exodus 20:6; 16, "but showing loving-commitment to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands."
1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”
John 14:15, "“If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.”
John 14:21, “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”
John 14:23, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him."
Exodus 20:6; 16, "but showing loving-commitment to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands."
1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”
SO what....this thread is about salvation by faith void of works to GAIN salvation.....and like I have said.....read thru the thread and you will see that.....there is not one verse that states people are saved in the N.T. by keeping law...
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW....
NO MAN will be saved or kept saved by that which is designed to PROVE GUILT.......
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW....
NO MAN will be saved or kept saved by that which is designed to PROVE GUILT.......
Christians don't go to hell period.
Don't you see the absurdity of your own words and teachings? Let's pretend your hypothesis is true: Not believing isn't enough to send one to hell, according to you. The person then must also "screw up" as well. Sorry, but not only is the entre premise unbiblical, your attempt to support it is chock full of error.
This has never happened to any genuine convert because it can never happen to any genuine convert.
Don't you see the absurdity of your own words and teachings? Let's pretend your hypothesis is true: Not believing isn't enough to send one to hell, according to you. The person then must also "screw up" as well. Sorry, but not only is the entre premise unbiblical, your attempt to support it is chock full of error.
This has never happened to any genuine convert because it can never happen to any genuine convert.
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Grace empowers us to walk in good works.
But grace is available IN Christ. We access Christ by dying to ourselves and being reborn in Him. Baptism gives us this very real illustration. Our death broke us free of the law of sin and death. When Christ became sin for us, our faith in Him put us on the cross with Him. But just as He was raised up we too were raised up in Christ. We are now called the light of the world.
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light
As a result of this work done in us, Scripture teaches us how to walk after our identity in Christ.
But if you think you are dark, or others still are, walking as light is not faith, but unbelief. We must first come face to face with God and find ourselves in Him. Righteous and justified by Him. Free to love through Him.
We have been crucified to the world. And the world crucified to us. So that we may live in the newness of Him.
But grace is available IN Christ. We access Christ by dying to ourselves and being reborn in Him. Baptism gives us this very real illustration. Our death broke us free of the law of sin and death. When Christ became sin for us, our faith in Him put us on the cross with Him. But just as He was raised up we too were raised up in Christ. We are now called the light of the world.
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light
As a result of this work done in us, Scripture teaches us how to walk after our identity in Christ.
But if you think you are dark, or others still are, walking as light is not faith, but unbelief. We must first come face to face with God and find ourselves in Him. Righteous and justified by Him. Free to love through Him.
We have been crucified to the world. And the world crucified to us. So that we may live in the newness of Him.
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Right. Ex-Christians do.
No. The return to unbelief all by itself will send the ex-Christian to hell.
That part will invariably follow the decision to return to unbelief. And without Christ the ex-Christian who no longer trusts in Christ as the only payment for his sin no longer has Him as the only payment available for his sin.
You just haven't met one yet.
I have.
No. The return to unbelief all by itself will send the ex-Christian to hell.
That part will invariably follow the decision to return to unbelief. And without Christ the ex-Christian who no longer trusts in Christ as the only payment for his sin no longer has Him as the only payment available for his sin.
You just haven't met one yet.
I have.