Not By Works

[PeterJens]

What you should have done instead of generalizing sins is confessed to the ones you've committed on here and have offended many persons with, and apologize.

And, I don't buy your feigned posts as of late, you're covering yourself to make a good show:

"Having security in Jesus is an idol"

"The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work."

"The cross (of Christ) is not enough"

You should repent of all the above quotes as well. You've attempted numerous times to present yourself as the spiritual big man, accusing others of living in sin, of being lost while claiming all of your own good, Luke 18:11-12 like. Since you've made the claim on yourself, live up to it: confess, apologize, recant, repent.

Feigned insults, invented problems and lies.
And you my friend are full of them. I have zero respect for anybody who behaves like this, so
I just wonder why you think I am this stupid? I know, but that would be rude and insulting to
tell you, so God bless you.

I had months of a joker calling me everything, and trying to provoke me.
It gets boring name calling and saying false things when a respectful relationship
is not there. But p4t, this obviously is not where you are at, so good night, God bless you.

By the way, thanks for bringing up my points, I had almost forgotten them,
Your my best friend ever. ......

 

[UnderGrace]

No thank you, I left the Roman church

Catholic forums two tabs across on your web browser..

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - You teach me futility. . There is one truth Jesus, walk with Him and you will find out.

You want to ask to just cause a dispute, because the answer to this defines for you faith.
And that is just madness. God bless you. May you rise to Christ and walk in His love
to the praise of His glorious name.

I doubt you know the reality because love does not drive you, just this mission, which was
doomed from the beginning. Maybe you need healing and a real life.....

I asked honest questions....why are you afraid to make a stand on what you believe....here....again I will ask concerning salvation....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Can it be lost?
Must it be maintained through works?
Does sin cause one to lose it?
Is it eternal?
Is it based entirely on faith?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

considering you didn't "quote" scripture just the same as me,instead declaring you did,I don't see where there is a need for me to quote scripture with scripture,as you would like,clearly this discussing has gotten you upset,and wanting to tear apart others metaphorically because you feel others are tearing into you metaphorically,I was explaining that I am not doing that I hope for just the opposite for you to calm down,and speak more coherently,nothing is accomplished if we can't understand each other.

I did quote scripture to miss abigail, referring back to peter's use of the word imitate

in your hurry to discount what I said, I mean who can blame you after all, you never read above the posts to see that

you simply butted in to what I said in reference to someone else

now mr serious, since you can't keep track of the conversation, maybe stop trying to make it sound like you are some sort of instructor

still no scripture either. not that I expected any. just love the cheap amateur analysis you are now attemtping

you guys are like a herd of some sort of carnivorous bi-peds seeking to devour what you don't understand

yes, you have also made it to my ignore list

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What does this mean - "failures currently".

This is like talking with a politician.

if so, it fits in nicely with the line of questionning

since I left earlier, the self appointed judges have demanded Peter answer THEIR questions

this is done to avoid answering the questions that they have been asked

I think Peter is smart enough to see that, but the judges seem to be operating by instinct

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Some people on this thread I call, "Spoons" because they are always trying to stir up the pot. Be careful and watch what they do because you could become tonights pot of stew, God forbid. This is not edifying to the Body of Christ.... period.

well then, get a mirror and meet the potatoe mashers

mashing what someone posts, not caring how they miss what is said, in their haste to mash it, spreading a mess and then saying look at the mess

it would be humorous if y'all didn't fancy yourselves so righteous compared to those you mock

so do please be careful and do not let the mashers hurt you; they can't help what they do

 

[7seasrekeyed]

come to think of it why are some of you so intent on admission of sin from peter,as I recall we only "confess" our sins to Jesus,so it is getting rather childish,he clearly sees this as a snare so you might as well leave the subject be of asking for sin admission from him.

good thing I was sitting down

this makes sense

congratulations

as I said, I do believe Peter is intelligent enough to see what is going on here

a kennel may be in order if the neighbors complain about the constant barking

 

[joefizz]

It's not childish - to me it's the way Peter comes across - admission of sin is not something an honest person would shy away from in my opinion, as far as I know nobody is lying in wait to crucify him.

I'd have to go back a few pages to see how this question was asked of Peter.

I understand that but agging someone on so that they will is not Christian behavior,or at least it shouldn't be,it's one thing to ask questions but repeatedly and in a mocking manner that to me is childish,or a better words we now know as "Harassment" I understand you are trying to figure out peter but don't you think,being less forceful would be better?

 

[joefizz]

I did quote scripture to miss abigail, referring back to peter's use of the word imitate

in your hurry to discount what I said, I mean who can blame you after all, you never read above the posts to see that

you simply butted in to what I said in reference to someone else

now mr serious, since you can't keep track of the conversation, maybe stop trying to make it sound like you are some sort of instructor

still no scripture either. not that I expected any. just love the cheap amateur analysis you are now attemtping

you guys are like a herd of some sort of carnivorous bi-peds seeking to devour what you don't understand

yes, you have also made it to my ignore list

nothing new to me I'm used to being somewhat of an outcast for actually trying to establish middle ground with people,I only care for what God thinks of me,so I suppose I'll leave everyone to their little battlefield for now,I am for peace and understanding not hate and rantings,and I don't use ignore on anyone because I find no reason for it.

 

[Locutus]

If Peter is "smart enough" he'd be able to post cogent responses rather spiritual/psycho babble.

But then I don't have a decoder ring....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in my post # 36306, on page #1816, I was using the analogy of being late to ( attempt ) to explain to peter about missing the mark.

my exact quote- in theory, if being late was a sin, then no matter the reason, you sinned by being late.

note the words "in theory"," if" .

you have to read the whole thing peter. you know, like you should be doing the Bible.

you can't just chop stuff into pieces and then make the pieces say what you want them to. you do this, and you really should stop.

Sadly that is why I thank it is pointless to talk to some people. I think peter here would be the only one here to not see the point you were making. And he twisted your words to try to discredit you. A tactic used by many.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I asked honest questions....why are you afraid to make a stand on what you believe....here....again I will ask concerning salvation....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Can it be lost?
Must it be maintained through works?
Does sin cause one to lose it?
Is it eternal?
Is it based entirely on faith?

how many times have we asked? They never answer, they blame shift, and then start to stir the pot as someone said earlier To try to get the focus off them.

 

[TruthTalk]

And?
I was talking about here and now,besides Jesus had "good reason" where as you don't,for your name calling,calling people "spoons" thereby being "pointless".
nice try though.

Saying that someone is acting like a spoon is not name calling it is pointing out bad behavior, again as I said before I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I'm not looking to counter argue with you on such a silly point, please go and enjoy your evening because I'm finish discussing this with you and I am trying to be nice to you, God bless.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of YHWH underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favor? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people. It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Father.”

 

[loveme1]

Disagree all you want and you would be wrong....Jesus said he had many thing that needed to be taught, but the disciples were not yet ready.....hence the words of PAUL.....and it is obvious that many things he said had particular application to HIS TIME FRAME and HIS DAY.....

Another know all not open to learning and instruction.....have a ball! CONTEXT PAL.....your should try it!

For example.

And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

im open my dear just not to statement like yours in regard to the Messiah's Testimony. The Messiah gives more Testimony through Revelation and all the New Testament is inspired Writings not just Paul.. yet you set yourself there. You should try reading and Believe the Messiah's Testimony then read Paul and all.. asking for understanding from the unseen Teacher...

Even the most hardened of Hearts can be pierced and replaced for nothing is impossible with GOD if w set our heart to believe.

 

[PHart]

His righteousness was never discredited because he believed.

He took steps forward and back from that point forward. As AZ tried to show. He had positive faith and negative faith (causing him to sin)

Abraham never went backward in his faith in the promise. He sinned in daily living just like the rest of us but he never wavered back and forth in his faith in the promise but grew strong in his faith:

"19Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.22Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Romans 4:19-22 NASB)
​

I've noticed that many Christians don't make the distinction between their faith in God's promise for salvation itself and faith in God's promise for daily provision. Wavering in faith in regard to the promise of salvation itself is what will get you in trouble regarding your salvation, not wavering in faith regarding God's promise to care for you in daily living.

 

[PHart]

Here again you define a non believer and try to apply their falling away as if you are speaking of believers who fell away. I am perplexed at your inability to see that you do this, for this is NOT the first time I have seen you waffle on the point of what constitutes belief.

It isn't waffling. There are both those who never believed, and those who believe but then later shrink back into unbelief.

 

[PHart]

I want to reiterate for a few naysayers that are rejecting that a works based salvation is being pushed by some.....ANYONE who teaches a losable salvation that must be maintained, kept or facilitated by what one does teaches a works based salvation and in so doing, ignores, rejects and sweeps under the table the promises of God....

a. Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
b. Jesus saves us to the uttermost
c. Jesus keeps us by the power of God
d. Jesus holds us in his hand
e. We are in the Father's hand
f. We are sealed unto the day of redemption
g. We are born of incorruptible seed
h. We are a child by birth
I. Jesus will lose nothing, but rather raise it up the last day
J. Jesus said he will never leave us or forsake us
k. Nothing shall separate us from the love of God
l. Eternal means eternal when applied unto the life Given in Christ
m. Everlasting means everlasting when applied unto life and what God does
n. We are saved, justified and sanctified in Christ forever
o. We are not condemned because of belief into Jesus

etc.....

Your error has been in insisting that continued believing is somehow among the works that a works salvationist does in order to earn salvation. But then you turn right around and point out, for example, in this post in item 'o' above that we are not condemned because of belief into Jesus. Which is what I've been saying: Our continued believing is what makes it so we are not condemned.

If our works purchased our rescue from condemnation at the Judgment we'd all be in serious trouble. There would be no such thing as salvation. But as it is, it is our believing which continues that ensures our continuing salvation. As far as I can see, the only difference you have with me about this is that you are sure a believer can never stop believing. Well, that's fine. I don't think that's a matter worth arguing about because, ultimately, it is the individual believer himself who has to face that question when his day of Job's suffering tests whether or not he can stop believing or will continue to believe. I don't need to force my opinion about that on anybody. Their hour of testing when it comes, and it surely will, will show them just how possible it is to depart from their faith.

Whether or not they will act on the temptation to shrink back into unbelief in their suffering depends on the fundamental quality of the soil of their heart. Christians whose hearts are crowded by the desires for the pleasures and concerns of this life (soil #3), or who's hearts don't allow the word to take deep root in them (soil #2) are the ones for whom the deceitfulness of sin is likely to lead them backward into unbelief and cause them to be lost on the Last Day.

"...Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

...encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" (Hebrews 3:6, 13-14 NASB)
​

From the above we see that sin has the potential to harden the heart and cause us to not hold fast our faith and hope in the promise of salvation we have received. The hour of suffering is what will open people's eyes up to the possibility of being able to shrink back in unbelief and be lost. If the roots of the word go down deep, and isn't being choked out by the love and concern for this world, they will be more prepared to resist and continue in the faith and remain saved. That is what we need to be telling the church, not that they can not shrink back in unbelief. Telling them they can never not believe is not how you prepare a person for the day of testing. Growing them up into #4 soil is.

 

[SovereignGrace]

We are commanded to flee worldly lusts, sexual immorality.

Yet, many professing Christians run towards it and do not want to avoid it it seems.

We are told Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.[1 Corinthians 6:9,10] So, if these supposed believers are living a lascivious lifestyle, is that honoring to God?

To those who can not control their primal rages, I ask this...

Do you want to please your God or your appetite?

There is no where in God's holy writ where we can have a sexual relationship outside the covenant of marriage. Thumb through it all you will, but it's not there.

So, you better be prepared to hear this if you don't cease and desist your sexual immorality.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’[Matthew 7:21-23]

 

[PeterJens]

Can it be lost?
Must it be maintained through works?
Does sin cause one to lose it?
Is it eternal?
Is it based entirely on faith?

I was thinking about this statement and your interest in the answer.
You hate some attitudes and people in your past, so deeply this burns into your soul.
You feel you must identify them, expose them as evil unbelievers corrupting the church.

This is the same idea that drove the Spanish inquisition, the caused Saul to persecute the
church and is not part of following Christ.

People will come and go in their faith and words, I do not know who is real and who is
fake. But I am simply called to love them all and by my life show Christ is alive for all
who desire to trust and follow Him.

So it may appear people can lose their faith, and that all those who do so, were never
saved or they we saved but the word never got deep enough into their lives and they
chose to walk away, or they are all saved anyway. What actually matters is that I can
walk with Jesus, praising Him and showing love through good works.

So anything that excuses sinful behaviour is from the evil one. God is only in that which
is pure, Holy and good. Now the enemy and false teachers will always convince some to
blame this group or that group for problems, when the only problem in following Christ is us,
individually and it is for us to get right with God in the quiet place, alone.

Do you rest in Christ, Amen. Are you fearful of Christ that He will judge you because of
your abiding sin, you should be. We need to fight through these issues and seek help, let
brokenness and honesty lead the way and seek Gods empowering grace to make it through.

There are so many testimonies of deliverance when God has set the captives free, and testing
where patience and endurance are required. Love conquers all, and always will, because God is love.

It is our fragile nature, fluid, flexible, and compromised that is alien to the Kingdom.
Jesus, the Spirit and the Fathers nature is to love above all through the power of creation.
The cross displays His soul, who He is and how far He will go.

So praise the Lord for He is our saviour and Lord and we desire to follow and see His will
reign on earth.