Pentecostal/charismatic Discussion/light debate thread

[Deacon_D]

I know this much, l smoked for 23yrs,tried to quit three times on my own and failed all three times. i was so discussed with myself. At the age of 40 I went to the altar laid the pack on the altar and told God I didn’t them any more. From that day to this I haven’t even the desire fo smoke. That was 44 yrs ago

 

[Dino246]

A note of clarification for all:

propheCy is a noun, pronouned "pro'fe'see" (the 'c' is the clue!)

propheSy is a verb, pronounced "pro'fe'sye"

The is no profit to professing error in your prophetic discussion.

 

[shittim]

Thank you, and bless you
I always enjoy his teachings, they always resonate
in my spirit.

 

[Speak2Me]

I most certainly am referring to the entire movement. Not one individual has ever shown an example of what they claim they are doing.

The nature of their rebuttals is telling; "well you just missed it", "you are blind to the miraculous", "its happening over there".

There comes a time when a spade needs to be called a spade. You seem to be quite willing to judge me but not this movement, is their a reason for this? The issues presented on this thread are serious and cannot be ignored with a simple, well ........maybe its real.

If this movement is of God it must be embraced, if it is not it must be called out for what it is, a mocking of the Holy Spirit. This is the sin of this movement, the mockery of the divine and the silence of Christians fearful to speak up against it.

There is no middle ground or grey area on this subject. God is either behind this movement or not.

Hiding behind the worn out excuse of not wanting to judge is an excuse for inaction and a open playground for wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is nothing more then a emotional distraction from honest biblical reasoning.

I'm going to reply this last time and be done with it. I will not argue with a man that doesn't know church history or the work of the Holy Spirit.
I hope for your sake what you wrote above has been done by accident and not on purpose becaused you just blasphemed the Holy Spirit if it was. I also hope that God will bless you and reveal the truth to you, because everyone deserves to know the truth. I hold no grudge against you and wish you well.

 

[DJ2]

I'm going to reply this last time and be done with it. I will not argue with a man that doesn't know church history or the work of the Holy Spirit.
I hope for your sake what you wrote above has been done by accident and not on purpose becaused you just blasphemed the Holy Spirit if it was. I also hope that God will bless you and reveal the truth to you, because everyone deserves to know the truth. I hold no grudge against you and wish you well.

I sincerely doubt you know more about church history then I do and from your words can only assume that you regularly blaspheme the Holy Spirit with false claims of movements of the Holy Spirit.

It was Simon the Sorcerer who was under judgement for his bogus claims of the supernatural. It will be the same for those of this movement who will be called to account for their reckless claims and those who stood by and ignored this mockery.

Think long and hard about this the next time you label the mundane as supernatural or attempt to chastise someone willing to call out false teaching.

 

[hornetguy]

The gift of prophesy is not clairvoyance.
When a person speaks forth in a tongue that is different from their daily prayer tongue
(that is our daily and often praying in the Holy Ghost) then this is followed by what is
called an "interpretation" of that speaking in tongues.

Interpretations tend to be about our faith, our walk, our need to improve and do things better,
or to love others more sincerely, to stay on track, keep the faith, to endure,
to build up our faith and to exercise the gift of the Holy Spirit by praying often in our spiritual
prayer language because it goes directly to God who is Spirit.
Interpretation confirms that tongues is God given and of the Holy Spirit.

Prophesy on the other hand is not about tomorrow you will meet someone tall, dark and handsome.
There are no personal revelations concerning tomorrow or next week this shall happen, so sell
up and hold hands.
When the prophets speak to a maximum of three, one after another - they speak of things in a
more generalised manner. This is for the edification and comfort of the body of Christ.
The Lord might speak along the lines of ... be not concerned with what is happening in the
world these days. My word and my prophecy concerning these last days shall come to
fruition. Endure and keep your faith for therein is your safety. There are still persons looking
for the truth and you must continue to go out and preach the gospel of salvation to them.
The time is short and my Son shall return in power and glory to claim his church.
Therefore do not be slothful but rather be diligent in serving Jesus your Lord and Saviour.

Prophesy is much more about what we need to do, and in giving direction for our efforts as
a church, as saints in the body of Christ.

One thing I know with all certainty through the gifts of prophesy that there will be no
pre-tribulation rapture for anybody. All Christians both Pentecostal or not will suffer
what is coming upon the world.
There will be a great falling away, but the wheat shall be separated from the chaff.
Are we ready? Will the Lord find faith on the earth when he returns?

So, your definition of "prophecy" is different from the one he gave....

Your definition seems to be if someone exhorts other believers, using the truth found in scripture already, that they are prophesying... do I understand you correctly?

 

[graceNpeace]

I sincerely doubt you know more about church history then I do and from your words can only assume that you regularly blaspheme the Holy Spirit with false claims of movements of the Holy Spirit.

It was Simon the Sorcerer who was under judgement for his bogus claims of the supernatural. It will be the same for those of this movement who will be called to account for their reckless claims and those who stood by and ignored this mockery.

Think long and hard about this the next time you label the mundane as supernatural or attempt to chastise someone willing to call out false teaching.

Back to your old tricks of trying to control the debate I see...

 

[Waggles]

So, your definition of "prophecy" is different from the one he gave....
Your definition seems to be if someone exhorts other believers, using the truth found in scripture already, that they are prophesying... do I understand you correctly?

No. When the gifts of prophesy operate in a church meeting - 1Corinthians 14 - it is 'inspired speaking'
not clairvoyance about specific future events.

The words prophecy and to prophesy are related and mean to foretell
Prophesy > G4395 > to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration,
exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

But prophesy is not about specifics - tomorrow this will happen, or next week you will see
such and such.
Rather these messages through the Holy Spirit from both Jesus and our Father are for
the benefit of his church made up of Spirit-filled disciples.
Often God will lament how that his holy Word is not believed and honoured no longer, and
that men are keen, even zealous, to discredit the scriptures and reinterpret the Bible.
But his pleasure is with us because we believe all the Bible is true and because we
endeavour to live it and defend the Word of God as true.

Or it is often of recent times warnings about the end of the world, the terrible cataclysmic
events about to be unleashed on an unbelieving and wicked world.
We are encouraged to hold onto our faith, to keep praying in the Spirit, to trust in our
Lord for our safety, to keep on preaching the gospel until the very last day.

Time is running out for the world; a lot sooner than many people think.
God will through these tribulations show that there is a real difference between his children and
Satan's children, just like he did in the time of Moses - separating the Children of Israel from
the Egyptians.

 

[shittim]

that time is at the door.
I heard it taught recently that there are 4 types of people in the world.
1-unsaved
2-newly saved
3-carnal Christians
4-Spiritual Christians

Those who walk with Him, and in the gifts He died on the cross to give us are at number 4, where He wants us all.
Those who deny aren't there yet, those who deny and fight against them have a lot to overcome before they stand before Him
on their judgement day.
blessings

 

[Muzungu256]

that time is at the door.
I heard it taught recently that there are 4 types of people in the world.
1-unsaved
2-newly saved
3-carnal Christians
4-Spiritual Christians

Those who walk with Him, and in the gifts He died on the cross to give us are at number 4, where He wants us all.
Those who deny aren't there yet, those who deny and fight against them have a lot to overcome before they stand before Him
on their judgement day.
blessings

in reality there are two types of people. wheat (christians) tares (non christians).

 

[hornetguy]

No. When the gifts of prophesy operate in a church meeting - 1Corinthians 14 - it is 'inspired speaking'
not clairvoyance about specific future events.

The words prophecy and to prophesy are related and mean to foretell
Prophesy > G4395 > to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration,
exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

But prophesy is not about specifics - tomorrow this will happen, or next week you will see
such and such.
Rather these messages through the Holy Spirit from both Jesus and our Father are for
the benefit of his church made up of Spirit-filled disciples.
Often God will lament how that his holy Word is not believed and honoured no longer, and
that men are keen, even zealous, to discredit the scriptures and reinterpret the Bible.
But his pleasure is with us because we believe all the Bible is true and because we
endeavour to live it and defend the Word of God as true.

Or it is often of recent times warnings about the end of the world, the terrible cataclysmic
events about to be unleashed on an unbelieving and wicked world.
We are encouraged to hold onto our faith, to keep praying in the Spirit, to trust in our
Lord for our safety, to keep on preaching the gospel until the very last day.

Time is running out for the world; a lot sooner than many people think.
God will through these tribulations show that there is a real difference between his children and
Satan's children, just like he did in the time of Moses - separating the Children of Israel from
the Egyptians.

Pardon my ignorance here, but, from your description, how do you know that someone is "prophesying" instead of just expounding on their understanding of scripture?

What differentiates it? The fact that they are inspired? If so, how would you know they were inspired?

 

[kaylagrl]

The Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is nothing more then a emotional distraction from honest biblical reasoning. This "theology" is a safe place from logic for those who do not value proper reasoning or common sense. A world where experience replaces scripture, emotion replaces wisdom and hearsay replaces evidence. A world where the word of God takes a back seat to whatever the current revelation happens to be.

The claims of this movement are bogus. Not some claims, not many claims, not most claims but all of their claims.

They are not speaking in other tongues, healing the sick or raising the dead nor any other of the multitude of supernatural acts they present as evidence. They but shamelessly label the mundane as works of the Holy Spirit.

Those who present these workaday events as supernatural or submit mindless babble as a God inspired tongue are but mocking the true power of the Holy Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit does return to this world we will not debate but be in total awe, as were those of the 1st century. No one is flocking to these groups except the spiritual immature.

Wow!! I mean,wow!! Did you write the Bible or... Because I'd like to know when the Holy Spirit left this world?

John 14-And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever...

So when Im speaking in other tongues Im demon possessed?! Is that what you're saying? Jesus said
" you will do greater things". So no one has ever received a healing? You've never known a person that has received a healing? Seriously?! You need to get with some missionaries and hear their stories and see how your "logic" works then.

I've told this story many times here. A pastor friend of mine became saved because a woman in a church service spoke in tongues,which happened to be his language,and told him how to become a Christian. I hate when demons do that! Tell people how to become saved...oh wait...

A Baptist friend of mine,who believed as you do,that speaking in tongues wasn't for today. He came with us to a Pentecostal church and there was a message in tongues. After the service we tried to explain what had happened. He said "I knew what the message was before anyone said it". Soooo did the demons jump him ?!

Look I get that people are afraid of the move of the spirit. If thats too much for you to handle,thats fine. But you don't need to run around accusing people of being nut cases just because you are against the move of the Holy Spirit. Now,has the gift of tongues and healing been misused? You bet ya! Does that make every healing and tongues fake,no it does not. You may think you're more "spiritually mature" but if you were as mature as you like to think you are you'd realize you're mighty close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[MarcR]

I sincerely doubt you know more about church history then I do and from your words can only assume that you regularly blaspheme the Holy Spirit with false claims of movements of the Holy Spirit.

It was Simon the Sorcerer who was under judgement for his bogus claims of the supernatural. It will be the same for those of this movement who will be called to account for their reckless claims and those who stood by and ignored this mockery.

Think long and hard about this the next time you label the mundane as supernatural or attempt to chastise someone willing to call out false teaching.

There are two types of judgement spoken of in Scripture:

Discernment is deciding for yourself, (and possibly for those who you are discipling)under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what is sound and what should be rejected. This is the judgement believers are called to.

Condemnation is appointing yourself to determine the consequence of another's belief or action. [except for that which Scripture explicitly declares to be sin]. this is the judgement of which Jesus says: "judge not lest ye be judged".

As a general rule of Biblical faith, we are to govern our own actions and thoughts---not those of others.

 

[DJ2]

Back to your old tricks of trying to control the debate I see...

What did I write that made you think this? Please do not assume this question is not sincere, I would like to hear from you and Muzungu256 as to why both of you think I am "trying to control the debate".

I do not believe I am but am willing to listen to why you think I am.

 

[notuptome]

Did you read my post?

I seriously doubt the merit of your position. Are you choosing to assert the authenticity of the long ending of Mark to support a position you have adopted?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Bogadile]

DJ2 why are you always "denying the power thereof"? Are you claiming my dear family members who speak in tongues are demon possessed? That is a wild accusation, the truth is, these people love the Lord. It does hit home when folks like you come along.

You only have logic and words, but you deny even the possibility of miracles it seems.

FORM of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Remember that verse, what power is it talking about? Most likely not the power of logic.

I am not a pentecostal, I also do not roll on the floor barking at a Benny Hinn crusade, yet I still believe in miracles because the bible is crystal clear that they are possible, and that the Holy Spirit will give gifts as He pleases until the Lord comes back. There is no way around that.

 

[shittim]

not really Muzungu

 

[Muzungu256]

not really Muzungu

yeah u are probably right, after all i was only quoting Jesus and His parable of wheat and tares. i thought Jesus would know what He was talking about.

 

[DJ2]

There are two types of judgement spoken of in Scripture:

Discernment is deciding for yourself, (and possibly for those who you are discipling)under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what is sound and what should be rejected. This is the judgement believers are called to.

Condemnation is appointing yourself to determine the consequence of another's belief or action. [except for that which Scripture explicitly declares to be sin]. this is the judgement of which Jesus says: "judge not lest ye be judged".

As a general rule of Biblical faith, we are to govern our own actions and thoughts---not those of others.

How is a Christian to know if his words are Holy Spirit guided discernment or self appointed condemnation? I think it is save to say that few Christians would label their words as anything other than the former.

But the bigger issue is the message itself. Is the message true?

This is what is overlooked in these debates. Many will read a post and instead of examining the message for truth, will divert the debate to the motive of the messenger. This is what you and others are attempting. Lets debate the motives of the message and not the message itself.

I have given a clear and frank reply as to what I see as to the bogus nature of this movement. The truth stands regardless of the assumed motivation of the messenger.

 

[Muzungu256]

When the Holy Spirit does return to this world we will not debate but be in total awe, as were those of the 1st century. No one is flocking to these groups except the spiritual immature.

return????? Jesus said Holy Spirit is with us until the end of the world!!!!!!