Pentecostal/charismatic Discussion/light debate thread

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MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#181
Feb 12, 2015
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#181
DJ2 said:
How is a Christian to know if his words are Holy Spirit guided discernment or self appointed condemnation? I think it is save to say that few Christians would label their words as anything other than the former.

But the bigger issue is the message itself. Is the message true?

This is what is overlooked in these debates. Many will read a post and instead of examining the message for truth, will divert the debate to the motive of the messenger. This is what you and others are attempting. Lets debate the motives of the message and not the message itself.

I have given a clear and frank reply as to what I see as to the bogus nature of this movement. The truth stands regardless of the assumed motivation of the messenger.
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It will be the same for those of this movement who will be called to account for their reckless claims and those who stood by and ignored this mockery.

You appear to have condemned the entire Pentecostal/charismatic movement on your own authority.

I share your skepticism but I think you may have gone too far.
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#182
Apr 15, 2017
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#182
MarcR said:
It will be the same for those of this movement who will be called to account for their reckless claims and those who stood by and ignored this mockery.

You appear to have condemned the entire Pentecostal/charismatic movement on your own authority.

I share your skepticism but I think you may have gone too far.
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If there is any validity to this movement it must be embraced. If it is a lie, it must be called out as such. There are too many victims of this movement to just stand on the sidelines and be just a skeptic.

Can you name any of these groups you believe are not bogus?
 
shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#183
Dec 16, 2016
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#183
saw this from St. Augustine and wanted to share it with all who come by
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#184
Apr 15, 2017
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#184
Muzungu256 said:
return????? Jesus said Holy Spirit is with us until the end of the world!!!!!!
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The statement was about the physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit that is being claimed on the OP. They were active during the 1st century and will certainly return. What is presented today is a cheap counterfeit and a mockery of the true power of the Holy Spirit, hence this debate.
 
Muzungu256

Muzungu256

Banned
#185
Apr 23, 2017
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#185
DJ2 said:
The statement was about the physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit that is being claimed on the OP. They were active during the 1st century and will certainly return. What is presented today is a cheap counterfeit and a mockery of the true power of the Holy Spirit, hence this debate.
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the bible never says they would cease...... only after Jesus returns u see........ u just dont wanna accept it because u dont got nothing spiritual going on? :D i can relate
 
shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#186
Dec 16, 2016
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#186
many are in that boat, " if i'm not experiencing it, it must not be happening".
That may be why churches developed doctrines erroneously teaching they have ceased, because the leaders were not faithful in seeking the gifts they assumed they must not be happening.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#187
Aug 17, 2015
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#187
Muzungu256 said:
the bible never says they would cease...... only after Jesus returns u see........ u just dont wanna accept it because u dont got nothing spiritual going on? :D i can relate
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Can you explain to me why should spiritual languages cease after the return of Jesus?

I can understand why should prophetical gifts like tongues, prophecies, knowledge cease after the completion of Scriptures, but I have no idea why they should cease when Jesus returns, it should be the opposite.
 
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Z

Zi

Guest
#188
#188
If the enemy can get enough people to counterfeit, he can get enough to doubt all of it..
DJ2 said:
The statement was about the physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit that is being claimed on the OP. They were active during the 1st century and will certainly return. What is presented today is a cheap counterfeit and a mockery of the true power of the Holy Spirit, hence this debate.
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then it's easy to tell who is led by the Spirit and who isn't. If you believe what you see you're obviously not checking with your guide given to you from above
 
Muzungu256

Muzungu256

Banned
#190
Apr 23, 2017
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#190
trofimus said:
Can you explain to me why should spiritual languages cease after the return of Jesus?

I can understand why should prophetical gifts like tongues, prophecies, knowledge cease after the completion of Scriptures, but I have no idea why they should cease when Jesus returns, it should be the opposite.
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its what the bible says, i dont know.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#191
Aug 17, 2015
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#191
Muzungu256 said:
its what the bible says, i dont know.
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No, Bible says "when the perfect comes".

You say its the return of Christ. Can you show me reason why should tongues, prophecy etc cease when Christ will come?

Simply some logical connection.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#192
Jul 18, 2017
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#192
Muzungu256 said:
the bible never says they would cease...... only after Jesus returns u see........ u just dont wanna accept it because u dont got nothing spiritual going on? :D i can relate
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Well just read 1 Corinthians 13:8 again. Three spiritual gifts would cease -- tongues, prophecy, and supernatural knowledge (called *knowledge* but this is not ordinary knowledge). They are all related to Divine revelations, so when the Bible was completed there was no need for further Divine revelations. Those who claim that we have additional Divine revelations today and that we still have tongues are making false claims. Tongues = languages = unknown languages spoken supernaturally by the power of the Holy Spirit. If you could speak German fluently today (assuming you are not knowing a word of it) that would be genuine supernatural tongue-speaking.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#193
Jan 18, 2016
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#193
Nehemiah6 said:
Well just read 1 Corinthians 13:8 again. Three spiritual gifts would cease -- tongues, prophecy, and supernatural knowledge (called *knowledge* but this is not ordinary knowledge). They are all related to Divine revelations, so when the Bible was completed there was no need for further Divine revelations. Those who claim that we have additional Divine revelations today and that we still have tongues are making false claims. Tongues = languages = unknown languages spoken supernaturally by the power of the Holy Spirit. If you could speak German fluently today (assuming you are not knowing a word of it) that would be genuine supernatural tongue-speaking.
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This seems like the most likely explanation of that scripture.
 
D

Deacon_D

Banned
#194
Sep 25, 2017
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#194
Do not misconstrue the idea of tongues for something it is not. Tongues was given to the early Church to open the door to new believers to call them to God’s purpose. Tongues is now spoke in a heavenly language, speaking to God and is not understood by men.for this cause it is not used to draw men toGod but to draw the believer to God.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#195
Aug 17, 2015
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#195
Tongues were sign for unbelievers, not for believers.
 
D

Deacon_D

Banned
#196
Sep 25, 2017
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#196
Paul said he would rather speak a few word to the church than ten thousand in tongues.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#197
Aug 17, 2015
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#197
Paul also said that love is much higher way of Christianity than various gifts of Spirit.

And that if somebody who speaks languages does not have love, such a person is nothing.
 
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BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#198
Oct 7, 2012
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#198
Deacon_D said:
Paul said he would rather speak a few word to the church than ten thousand in tongues.
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Funny enough this statement from the apostle Paul actually promotes the idea of a private prayer language, because he says "yet in the church" which implies he speaks in tongues outside of the church.
 
D

Deacon_D

Banned
#199
Sep 25, 2017
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#199
Yes, he did but speaking in tongues is the proof of the Holy Ghost.
 
G

garee

Banned
#200
Mar 28, 2016
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#200
Tongues is now spoke in a heavenly language, speaking to God and is not understood by men.for this cause it is not used to draw men to God but to draw the believer to God.
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Chanting making noises without meaning, is the language of the Catholics who must walk by sight as if God was a man as us. Its the foundation of their private revelations.

God understands all languages. He made the mouth and ears to hear. No secret gospel. The manna hidden in parables is all we need to believe Him who is not a man as us.
God is no longer bringing any new revelations as prophecy. He draws men as it is written. Not to those who seek to go above that which is written as if they have received more than he has revealed.
 
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