Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
Including that. Yes. :)

We that believe in Christ are to live as those judged by the law of Liberty.. the Just shall live by Faith. But GOD's Law is very much part of the New Testament. To the letter no.. but by the Spirit.

For the letter kills us.. but the Spirit gives life to walk in newness as Christ walked.. to Grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ is to Love GOD and each other and delight in GOD's Law with the New inner that is given by GOD'S Grace through Faith in His Son.

When it reads:


Galatians 3


O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it beyet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?








That is teaching people not to believe those who say you must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved...

If anyone teaches you that GOD's Law is dead works then I fear they have not been born again of the Holy Spirit and being guided and comforted.

For GOD's Law is good and love but we were carnal and needed to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit to not be be at enmity with GOD's Law.

It is true and that is why saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus.

Through Christ we have Victory and GOD be thanked in all things and for all things.

We know the answer is by the hearing of Faith.. yet some spy out our Liberty in Christ trying to marry us to the dead husband rather than be Faithful to the New.. which is the Messiah's Testament.

Those not under Grace at Liberty in Christ are dead in their tresspasses whether they are of the circumcision or not.. for both have been deemed in unbelief and must Repent and Believe and GOD will graft them in.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
That would mean many Jewish people are believing in the New Testament..

What does the flesh of a Jew have to do with believing the gospel. Christ said His flesh profits for nothing. Does he believe the gospel ?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
You're not addressing the question. If OSAS is true, why did the Corinthian fellow's flesh have to die in order to be saved on the day of Christ's return? We're being told here in this thread that our bad behavior has no effect whatsoever on what will happen on the Day of Christ's appearing.
Christ suffered the second death. The first death all experience as evidence we were under his wrath living in a corrupted body called a body of death all the days of our lives. All die not receiving the promise of the new incorruptible body to house our new spirit that will never die. (OSAS)

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not "the promise":
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
What does the flesh of a Jew have to do with believing the gospel. Christ said His flesh profits for nothing. Does he believe the gospel ?
You will need to please elaborate.. then we can be clear. Thank you.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Not all obedience is not one trying to be justified by works, but rather doing what is right and therefore should be done by default. Those in Messiah Yahshua were not called out to live like those that dont follow Him.

Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”

Galatians 5:5-6, “For we, in Spirit, by belief, eagerly wait for the expectation of righteousness. For in Messiah יהושע neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but belief working through love."

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

*goalis word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 4:19-21, "We love Him, because He first loved us. If anyone says: I love YHWH, and hates his neighbor, he is a liar; for he who does not love his neighbor whom he has seen, how can he love YHWH Whom he has not seen? For we have this commandment from Him: That he who loves YHWH must love his neighbor also."

1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Rom 2:26-29, “For circumcision indeed profits if you practice the Torah, but if you are a transgressor of the Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. So, if an uncircumcised one watches over the righteousnesses of the Torah, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned as circumcision? And the uncircumcised by nature, who perfects the Torah, shall judge you who notwithstanding letter and circumcision are a transgressor of the Torah! For he is not a Yehuḏi who is so outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But a Yehuḏi is he who is so inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart,g in Spirit, not literally, whose praise is not from men but from Yah.”

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

Romans 6:16, “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
That is teaching people not to believe those who say you must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved...

If anyone teaches you that GOD's Law is dead works then I fear they have not been born again of the Holy Spirit and being guided and comforted.

For GOD's Law is good and love but we were carnal and needed to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit to not be be at enmity with GOD's Law.

It is true and that is why saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus.

Through Christ we have Victory and GOD be thanked in all things and for all things.

We know the answer is by the hearing of Faith.. yet some spy out our Liberty in Christ trying to marry us to the dead husband rather than be Faithful to the New.. which is the Messiah's Testament.

Those not under Grace at Liberty in Christ are dead in their tresspasses whether they are of the circumcision or not.. for both have been deemed in unbelief and must Repent and Believe and GOD will graft them in.
Amen I would offer .Dead works come from dead faith.

Its the faith of Christ coming from him as His labor of love towards us.The other way around (upside down) is to blaspheme the holy name by which we are called heavenward.

Can’t separate faith from works. It is all one in the same. (faithworks) You could say like fireworks they do not work without fire. No big bang.

There is no separation between the faith,the planning and the work the execution .When Christ our faithful Creator by faith planned to create molecules and atoms out of nothing, non rudiments of this world . He said preaching his work or faith as a labor of his love .. Let there be... and there was rudiments .

Its those who crucify Christ over and over subjecting him to public shame as if one work of His faith fell short of the glory of God and he must be crucified again and a again.

OSAS offends those who offer dead works of faith towards God and do not accept His work of faith towards us, that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ .

Better things accompany salavtion like actual redemption, not a down payment due in installments, and not a kick start placing a person to where Adam and Eve were before they offered their dead works of doing the pleasure of the father of lies, and became children of “no faith” other than the imaginations of their own hearts...

Again you cannot separate works from faith. It is at that point many of the disciples walked away in John 6 when Christ said his flesh profits for nothing.

We simply do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world which he by a work of His faith, a labor of His love created on day one. The same time period he corrupted it causing death .

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, "and" of faith toward God,

I think removing the word "and" above would be a better way to paraphrase that verse .We are not saved by human faith (the imaginations of one’s own heart)

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
You will need to please elaborate.. then we can be clear. Thank you.

What does hearing the gospel have to do with Jewish people? Jesus was a Jew and he said His flesh profits for nothing.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Not all obedience is not one trying to be justified by works, but rather doing what is right and therefore should be done by default. Those in Messiah Yahshua were not called out to live like those that dont follow Him.

Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”

Ceremonial laws (non effectual) govern ceremonies. They are not moral laws that govern morals, the effectual ones. .

Shadows and types (Ceremonial laws) are used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand and the promised glory of opening the graves of those born again having the Spirit of Christ the holy Spirit of God..

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1Pe 1:9

Circumcision simply is a “shadow” our bloody husband , pointed ahead to the suffering of our bloody husband Christ beforehand.

Simply search for the spiritual meaning hid in the parable below. It would seem Moses had hardened his own heart God again had to soften it. And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and "sought to kill him".Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.Exodus 4:26
 
Last edited:
P

PHart

Guest
More and more people are waking up from the dead works of the law, and I think it's exciting that we're all a part of this.
Don't you mean dead works of the flesh?
If by 'flesh' you mean self-effort (Ishmael, born of the flesh, Galatians 4:29), then, yes. :)
That would certainly be part of it. But that's not it exactly.

To get to the point, if we could, and did keep the deeds of the law we'd be righteous and we will have earned a place in the kingdom of God. So it's not doing what the law commands that is evil and which condemns us. What condemns us is not doing the law.

When we are not keeping the law we are walking in the deeds of the flesh. Salvation is about being born again through faith in Christ's forgiveness and as a result being equipped by the Spirit to fulfill the law. That is what we rejoice in when people get saved: Not their deliverance from having to do what the law requires as if doing the law equates to 'dead works of the law'. Instead we rejoice in the fact that because of God's Holy Spirit we can now fulfill the law we once could not. So, what we wake up from is our dead works of the flesh and awaken to a power to fulfill the deeds of the law (the ones that still have to be fulfilled).
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2016
3,055
242
63
Singapore
abigail.pro
I'm sorry, PHart, but I totally disagree. My signature below is proof enough that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

That would certainly be part of it. But that's not it exactly.

To get to the point, if we could, and did keep the deeds of the law we'd be righteous and we will have earned a place in the kingdom of God. So it's not doing what the law commands that is evil and which condemns us. What condemns us is not doing the law.

When we are not keeping the law we are walking in the deeds of the flesh. Salvation is about being born again through faith in Christ's forgiveness and as a result being equipped by the Spirit to fulfill the law. That is what we rejoice in when people get saved: Not their deliverance from having to do what the law requires as if doing the law equates to 'dead works of the law'. Instead we rejoice in the fact that because of God's Holy Spirit we can now fulfill the law we once could not. So, what we wake up from is our dead works of the flesh and awaken to a power to fulfill the deeds of the law (the ones that still have to be fulfilled).
 
P

PHart

Guest
Christ suffered the second death. The first death all experience as evidence we were under his wrath living in a corrupted body called a body of death all the days of our lives. All die not receiving the promise of the new incorruptible body to house our new spirit that will never die. (OSAS)

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not "the promise":
This does not answer the question. Why does the sinning Corinthians fellow have to purposely be turned over to satan so that he can be saved? Paul is setting it as a condition for the salvation of this man. If he were talking about the death we're all going to die anyway someday there would be no need to command the church to turn him over to this....he along with the rest of us already have had that sentence pronounced on us.

It's obvious. A believer can not live in contemptuous sin and still be saved on the Day of Wrath. That's not a works gospel as some are only able to hear that. Willful, contemptuous sin is a form of unbelief. That person is trampling the blood of Christ in an 'I don't care' attitude. He will be lost on the Day of Wrath if he does not repent and turn away from that willful sin. Not because works earn salvation, but because the penalty for sin is still the same for us, it's just that if we believers stop trusting in Christ we no longer have Christ's forgiveness for the sin that condemns to hell.

This is not to be confused with the person who struggles with sin, but who continues to trust Christ to forgive the failures in that struggle. This is about the arrogant, 'I don't care' person in the church who is willfully sinning. The flesh must be put to death before he can expect to be covered by Christ's forgiveness on the Day of Wrath.....if he hasn't been turned over to his unbelief already.
 
P

PHart

Guest
I'm sorry, PHart, but I totally disagree. My signature below is proof enough that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18) in way shape or form came to an end because of Christ. In fact, faith in Christ upholds the law (Romans 3:31).

The 'end of the law of righteousness' means Christ put an end to the way of trying to gain righteousness by keeping the law. Christ's appearing brought the new way of becoming righteous--by receiving the Holy Spirit when you receive God's forgiveness for your sin. And so our righteousness is from God, not from the power of our bodies to obey the law and be declared righteous that way.
 
Last edited:

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”

James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”

Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

*goal is word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Faith RETAINED is both, the cause of salvation, and the evidence of salvation. People who cast aside the Word of Faith that saves are neither saved by that faith, nor do they have evidence of that faith in their lives.

You have to retain and hold fast the Word of faith to be saved by that word through which faith comes:(The bible does not teach this, you do).

"1Now I make known to you, brethren,
the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that Christ is not risen from the dead--see vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

"
24As for you, If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NASB)
Good Morning Phart, Paul say's to hold fast, "the word (gospel) which I preached to you", which is a common theme of Paul's, ie. "so that we won't be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine." Eph.4:14.

Quote:
"You have to retain and hold fast the Word of faithto be saved by that word through which faith comes" (The bible does not teach this, you do).

Your proof text above in blue letter's do not contain the word "faith", not one time. Paul is referring to, "the gospel which I preached to you," 1Cor15:1 , And yet your opening statement uses the word "faith" 6 times. Paul uses the the word faith not one time.

And the same is true of 1John2:24, "let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning.mwhich you have heard from the beginning refers to 1John1:1 "The Word of Life", Jesus.

Not one time in your proof text passages do they refer to "faith" and yet you use the word "faith" in your opening statement.

Are you sure you are not a computer bot.....
:)
 
Last edited:

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,586
9,104
113
You're not addressing the question. If OSAS is true, why did the Corinthian fellow's flesh have to die in order to be saved on the day of Christ's return? We're being told here in this thread that our bad behavior has no effect whatsoever on what will happen on the Day of Christ's appearing.
What!? You are really mixed up. First off, whatever giving his flesh over to satan for destruction meant, 2 Corinthians hints that he wasn't destroyed physically, and repented.But the point Paul was making by delivering him over was that his SPIRIT would be saved.

If he was allowed to continue having sex with his mother, with NO consequences, OTHERS might be led into thinking sinful behavior is fine.

Also, eternity is a long time. How we conduct ourselves as saved Christians will have eternal consequences in regard to our position in the Kingdom. Some will be rulers with lots of rewards, others will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. BUT THEY WILL BE IN THE KINGDOM.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Notice to this thread: Hizikyah, is promoting a false doctrine; that we should return to the Mosaic Law. He also puts his Jewish roots "in front of his Christian Faith", distorting the True Gospel. Aside from that I am tired of seeing a wall of verses a mile long every time he adds a post, therefore by necessity I am putting Hizikyah on Ignore.

Quote: Hizikyah

"We can not earn Salvation "by 'only' obedience to the Law of the Creator", as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos)
"of keeping the Law of YHWH."

Going back to Law, or "keeping the Law of YHWH", (God), is going in the wrong direction. Turn back to Christ/Messiah and you will find everlasting salvation and Peace with God.
 
Last edited:
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
Notice to this thread: Hizikyah, is promoting a false doctrine; that we should return to the Mosaic Law. He also puts his Jewish roots "in front of his Christian Faith", distorting the True Gospel. Aside from that I am tired of seeing a wall of verses a mile long every time he adds a post, therefore by necessity I am putting Hizikyah on Ignore.
I just scroll right on past those mile long diatribes! Guess since I didn't read his posts I never saw his errors.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”

James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”

Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

*goal is word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
Notice to this thread: Hizikyah, is promoting a false doctrine; that we should return to the Mosaic Law. He also puts his Jewish roots "in front of his Christian Faith", distorting the True Gospel. Aside from that I am tired of seeing a wall of verses a mile long every time he adds a post, therefore by necessity I am putting Hizikyah on Ignore.

Quote: Hizikyah

"We can not earn Salvation "by 'only' obedience to the Law of the Creator", as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) "of keeping the Law of YHWH."

Going back to Law, or "keeping the Law of YHWH", (God), is going in the wrong direction. Turn back to Christ/Messiah and you will find everlasting salvation and Peace with God.
The saints keep the Instructions the dragon fight against them;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of Yah?”[/FONT]