Salvation is Not Permanent
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Then the free ticket I gave you for a free Lasagna dinner would be no assurance of the guarantee either. The guarantee is good as long as you have the ticket which guarantees it. It doesn't cease to be a guarantee just because you are able to not have it anymore. You simply cease to possess what the ticket guaranteed. Think about it.
Yours is an interesting analogy, but it fails on the comparison of "holding a ticket". We don't "hold the Holy Spirit" as one holds a ticket. We don't put Him in our pockets, or wallets, or even staple Him to our skin somewhere. Rather, He infuses our inner being, changing our fundamental nature from the inside out. We can't let go of Him any more than we can let go of our DNA.
I do not care about your tickets and tickets example 
its totally out of line.
We are born from Him. As you are born from your biological father. Its not any kind of a ticket. Its no kind of "having a guest".
When you are born, you have life in you. No tickets. If you have His Spirit in you, its a certainity you are born of God.
You were not given any ticket. You were born.
its totally out of line.We are born from Him. As you are born from your biological father. Its not any kind of a ticket. Its no kind of "having a guest".
When you are born, you have life in you. No tickets. If you have His Spirit in you, its a certainity you are born of God.
You were not given any ticket. You were born.
I do not care about your tickets and tickets example its totally out of line.
We are born from Him. As you are born from your biological fathers. Its not any kind of a ticket. Its no kind of "having a guest".
When you are born, you have life in you. No tickets. If you have His Spirit in you, its a certainity you are born of God.
its totally out of line.We are born from Him. As you are born from your biological fathers. Its not any kind of a ticket. Its no kind of "having a guest".
When you are born, you have life in you. No tickets. If you have His Spirit in you, its a certainity you are born of God.
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Then it should be forbidden to ever post this scripture in this forum and let it see the light of day:
It teaches how terrible it will be for the person who causes someone who believes in Jesus to stumble and go to the eternal, fiery hell. It's better for the one who believes in Jesus to cast away the one who causes them to stumble instead of them going to the eternal fiery hell. Read it. You probably won't see it at first because the church has been trained by OSAS to not be able to see the passages that teach what will happen to (ex) believers.
"whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB)
7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB)
It teaches how terrible it will be for the person who causes someone who believes in Jesus to stumble and go to the eternal, fiery hell. It's better for the one who believes in Jesus to cast away the one who causes them to stumble instead of them going to the eternal fiery hell. Read it. You probably won't see it at first because the church has been trained by OSAS to not be able to see the passages that teach what will happen to (ex) believers.
Allright. So you can get born again once, and you can also get unborn once. Got it.
So uhh. Can I be unborn physically? You know this life isn't all its made out to be, can I be unborn to this world somehow? I cannot. The same with being born again, once you are born again of incorruptible seed, it is impossible to "go back". Is this not clear??
So uhh. Can I be unborn physically? You know this life isn't all its made out to be, can I be unborn to this world somehow? I cannot. The same with being born again, once you are born again of incorruptible seed, it is impossible to "go back". Is this not clear??
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I wish you got it, but I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, right?
You'd have a point if somehow spiritual birth was like physical birth, but it is not. No distinct, separate, additional 'being' gets birthed when you are born again. As the scriptures teach, you become a different you. It's the same you, just different. You know, new in that way:
6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person." (1 Samuel 10:6 NIV)
A new and previously nonexistent and separate being does not come into existence when a person believes and gets the Holy Spirit. You do not give birth that way like a human body is born, when you are born again, lol. You become a different person, which can easily go back to the way he was before by simply no longer having the Holy Spirit making them 'new' and different in character.
You'd have a point if somehow spiritual birth was like physical birth, but it is not. No distinct, separate, additional 'being' gets birthed when you are born again. As the scriptures teach, you become a different you. It's the same you, just different. You know, new in that way:
6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person." (1 Samuel 10:6 NIV)
A new and previously nonexistent and separate being does not come into existence when a person believes and gets the Holy Spirit. You do not give birth that way like a human body is born, when you are born again, lol. You become a different person, which can easily go back to the way he was before by simply no longer having the Holy Spirit making them 'new' and different in character.
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Jesus addressed this with Nicodemus in John 3. Really clarified by Paul in 2 Cor 5:17.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The caterpillar becomes a butterfly. New comes from old in a second birth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The caterpillar becomes a butterfly. New comes from old in a second birth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Exactly! Each of his illustrations are a total fail. Not sure if you saw his lasagna illustration.
Calvinism assumes that 'sealed' means, by pure definition of the word, that when we are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit it means 'unable to be unsealed'. If that were true--that 'sealed' by definition means 'not able to unsealed'--then you would not be able to unseal your left over Lasagna in the refrigerator, lol.
When I point this out, Calvinists then point out that the Bible says we are sealed until the Day of Redemption, which it most certainly does (if we keep believing). So now the argument becomes we are 'not able to be unsealed until the Day of Redemption'', and so in a twisted sense dissolving their false assertion that 'sealed' means 'unsealable'. Well, for starters, I personally have no plans to not have the Holy Spirit after the Day of Redemption, lol. Do they? In fact, I'll have it all the more.....and it will be at that time it truly will be irreversible.
But until then, I and all believes have the responsibility to keep 'doing' what got us the Holy Spirit in the first place--believe. But that gets rejected because so many misguided OSASer's have been taught that even believing is now a work of the damnable works gospel. But it is clear that Paul contrasts, not equates believing with works in his famous 'works vs. faith for justification' treatise:
"5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5 NIV)
Somehow 'believing' has now skipped over to the side of works and is also among the works that constitute the damnable works gospel that can not save. How absurd. But that is where the church is at these days.
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