Spiritual Confusion

[Nehemiah6]

As we approach the end of the Church Age and the Second Coming of Christ, we can -- and we should -- expect more and more spiritual confusion.

There is a thread on wrestling with the forces of darkness, and one of the ways in which evil spirits are battling Christians (as well as those who seek the truth and salvation) is to sow more and more spiritual confusion in society at large, and within the churches and the minds of individual Christians.

Everything from the nature of Christ, to the true Gospel, to the essential doctrines of Christianity are being attacked, and undermined, and perverted, so that people are confused as to what is true and what is false. Add to that the attempts to revive Moses and the Old Covenant and impose it on Christians, and people don't know what to believe and what to reject.

Add to that the false doctrines that God chooses some for salvation, and the bulk of humanity for damnation, and a budding evangelist will wonder why the Gospel should even be preached (after all God has already made up His mind). Then we have dozens of false Gospels floating around, plus Gnostic ideas, plus Gnostic corruptions of the Bible claiming to be the true Word of God while attacking the fundamentals of the faith (starting with the Divine preservation of Scripture).

Then we have the ordination of homosexual clergy, and the ordination of women (who should keep silence in churches), as well as the promotion of glossolalia over genuine biblical tongues (glossais). Add to that the false televangelists and preachers with their Word of Faith doctrines, and their false notions about the finished work of Christ, and what you have is total spiritual confusion.

But Christians -- genuine children of God -- need not be confused, or deluded, or duped. We do have the true Word of God in our hands (the Authorized Version) and we do have the Holy Spirit indwelling our spirits. So if Christians are willing to labor in the Word and doctrine, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free" ( John 8:23). But how is that possible? God has already given us the answer, so just believe it and act on it. It is God the Holy Spirit who reveals the truth to us.

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things...But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:20,27).

 

[Lighthearted]

I just want to say something about women being silent in church. We all need to seek Him out. You know women have had to step in to the role of both father and mother to their children in this day and age. God has used me many times to minister in church including prophesy that was interpreted by our pastor. It may have been shameful to the man for a woman to speak out then, but personally I don't believe that now. I have a calling to speak out to congregations...to believers who have fallen and feel unworthy to follow Jesus and fulfill the calling and purpose He has for them. I'm not going to back down. I'm going to follow where He leads me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

it's my impression that confusion is convenient at times

But Christians -- genuine children of God -- need not be confused, or deluded, or duped. We do have the true Word of God in our hands (the Authorized Version) and we do have the Holy Spirit indwelling our spirits. So if Christians are willing to labor in the Word and doctrine, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free" ( John 8:23). But how is that possible? God has already given us the answer, so just believe it and act on it. It is God the Holy Spirit who reveals the truth to us.

well, when one person does exactly that, another will come along and tell them they are wrong or even not saved

some say only the KJV is what we should use. was the authorization by God? well not really. we have that version in the original languages

then we have cessationsists who believe we have achieved perfection

I truly see no way this thread can come to an 'authoritative' conclusion

and besides, it's a DISCUSSION forum

 

[7seasrekeyed]

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things...But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointingteacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:20,27).

and yet 'teaching' is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit

see, I am pretty sure 'you don't need anyone to teach you' means something quite different from 'you are good to go all on your own' as so many seem to interpret it

like I say, God knows the heart and some of the most sincere people around are wrong

but that is one thing. the mess starts when a person comes along, as is often enough the case, and says everyone but them is wrong

pretty much how threads like this proceed

 

[Dino246]

Hmmm... the OP has put speaking in tongues and female preachers alongside ordination of homosexuals, as though they were similarly heinous. I shake my head. I don't even have words.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hmmm... the OP has put speaking in tongues and female preachers alongside ordination of homosexuals, as though they were similarly heinous. I shake my head. I don't even have words.

Since the word "heinous" was not used, you have created a straw man. But whatever violates the the teachings of Scripture should be unacceptable to Christians, and everything you mentioned violates Scripture.

 

[MattforJesus]

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things...But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:20,27).

Unction,unction,what's your function?
Hooking up saints with righteousness,and goodness.
Unction,unction,how's that function?
I got three favorite traits
They get most of My job done.
Unction,unction,what's their function?
I got peace,love,and joy
They'll get you pretty far.

Unction,unction,what's your function?
Hooking up saints and making them learn right.
Unction,unction,how's that function?
Guiding them to all truth,and showing them things to come.
Unction,unction,what's their function?
To keep them in the truth to the saving of their soul.

Brought to you by Spirithouse Rock.

 

[Nehemiah6]

and yet 'teaching' is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit

Of course, and Scripture does not contradict Scripture. What John is telling us (in context) is that our ultimate Teacher is the Holy Spirit. So if there were no Bible teachers to assist you, He would still lead you into all truth. John is certainly not suggesting that God has not given teachers to the churches. The context of these verses in the existence of false teachers -- antichrists -- who were trying to pervert the truth. They eventually left the church because they did not belong there in the first place.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I just want to say something about women being silent in church. We all need to seek Him out. You know women have had to step in to the role of both father and mother to their children in this day and age. God has used me many times to minister in church including prophesy that was interpreted by our pastor. It may have been shameful to the man for a woman to speak out then, but personally I don't believe that now. I have a calling to speak out to congregations...to believers who have fallen and feel unworthy to follow Jesus and fulfill the calling and purpose He has for them. I'm not going to back down. I'm going to follow where He leads me.

Well that is between you and the Lord, but the Scripture is quite clear, and that is our ultimate authority.

 

[Blain]

Sadly spiritual confusion is very common and increasing,even I have been very spiritually confused.But the confusion is a very well played tactic by the enemy, is it simply a coincidence that in the past 300 years there has been a diverse uprising of new doctrines and new denominations within Christianity? Ever war master knows that to bring down a mighty army if you can cause confusion and bickering then even the mightiest fortress will be easily overtaken.

Remember Jesus himself said a kingdom divided among itself cannot stand. What the truth is and what we as believers and as God's anointed children are to do and be has remained the same but because the enemy is well versed in the art of war and of sowing seeds of confusion we all are like chickens running around with our heads cut off. But even so if we keep our hearts eyes set solely upon Jesus and if we keep moving forward with a fire in our eyes and a song of hope in our hearts then even with the enemies tactics we will make it to the blessed hope of our real home.

Look at the bdf for instance, and yes I know I speak of this place often but there is a good reason for it and I will continue to poke at this issue until we finally change things. The bdf is a perfect example of this spiritual confusion and the enemies war tactics, this place is a war zone and has so many claiming to understand the truth and has far more teachers than it does students when it needs far more students and a few good teachers. People are constantly talking each other down and throwing scripture in others faces people constantly mock and attack each other and all for the cause of of teaching and speaking the truth.

The thing is though it doesn't have to be this way, we all can choose how we speak to each other and how we react to attacks. If we really want to beat the enemy and if we as believers truly want to show God's love and his heart and what it means to be a Christian especially for those who are younger and weaker in faith then we should all come together and help each other to respond more kindly to each other and to help each other to humble ourselves in all we do we should all help to encourage and build each other up and to remind each other to remain in love and to seek his presence.

If we as the members of cc can hold each other accountable in reminding each other of all this when we see a brother and sisters acting as they should not then perhaps that would not only help everyone in cc to grow stronger and grow closer to God but maybe the bdf instead of being a field of blood will be a place people are excited to go to. The apostles did all of this with each other and with the church they helped to build and we can too the question is are we willing to?

 

[Nehemiah6]

well, when one person does exactly that, another will come along and tell them they are wrong or even not saved

And the whole point of this thread is that Christians need not be intimidated or confused. God has made sufficient provision for us to be sure about what is the truth. There can be only one truth ("the faith once delivered to the saints", which is consistent with all biblical revelation.

 

[Dino246]

Since the word "heinous" was not used, you have created a straw man. But whatever violates the the teachings of Scripture should be unacceptable to Christians, and everything you mentioned violates Scripture.

A straw man argument is one where a caricature of a position is created and addressed as though it were an accurate summary of a position. The caricature is usually both distorted and simplified. By my use of "heinous", did I either distort or simplify your position? Did I create something and then address it as though it were the summary of your position? Um, no. The latter two only violate your interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Innerfire89]

It's not really a problem to evanglize while holding to dual predestination, we want our brothers and sisters to come to faith thourgh hearing.

I know it sounds terrible that God would predestine anyone to hell, but why not? For that matter why should anyone be elected for salvation when we all deserve wrath?

A few important points to make is:
We don't believe God predestines sinners to sin, their predestined to their due punishment.
We don't believe God turns away anyone seeking salvation or drags people to salvation who don't want it. It's only the elect that truly fear God.
We don't believe the elect are robots, we believe man will accept God's irrestable grace by his own free will.

When I learned of God's grace and election I saw it was a doctrine showing how much God loves us and how much we have to thank Him for.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Of course, and Scripture does not contradict Scripture. What John is telling us (in context) is that our ultimate Teacher is the Holy Spirit. So if there were no Bible teachers to assist you, He would still lead you into all truth. John is certainly not suggesting that God has not given teachers to the churches. The context of these verses in the existence of false teachers -- antichrists -- who were trying to pervert the truth. They eventually left the church because they did not belong there in the first place.

nope

oh for sure the Holy Spirit is THE teacher

I am undecided as to whether to use sarcasim and say 'that is why all Christians agree of course'

or

point to the obvious and state that if they Holy Spirit were everyone's ultimate teacher, we would all agree

for some reason, I reach the same conclusion either way. what a predicament

if only I have not, had not, known people so far left field as to think they had literally the same anointing as Moses

perhaps I should have stayed home, not seen the world, and become badly disenchanted with the myriad interpretations of believers afield in this green globe

alas

perhaps the perfect has not yet reached the conclusion of its presence at the same time as so many who believe it has

in plain English: Scripture does not contradict itself. people do that in the name of their beliefs.

God never gave teachers to 'the churches'

He gave teachers to the body of Christ. that is not what we have now days

we have confusion and contradiction, as your op bemoans, but you offer no solution because you disagree with possibly more than half of Christendom and vice versa

 

[7seasrekeyed]

And the whole point of this thread is that Christians need not be intimidated or confused. God has made sufficient provision for us to be sure about what is the truth. There can be only one truth ("the faith once delivered to the saints", which is consistent with all biblical revelation.

I'm good

Jesus is THE One Truth

not diverse doctrines, interpretations and the KJV

it's always been Jesus. since ages beyond anyone's reality or comprehension

The Way, The Truth and The Life. He is my truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

By my use of "heinous", did I either distort or simplify your position? Scripture.

You certainly did. Here's the meaning of heinous, and since I did not imply any such thing, you distorted my meaning for your own agenda:

1. hatefully or shockingly evil :abominable

2.ADJECTIVE

• (of a person or wrongful act, especially a crime) utterly odious or wicked:
  "a battery of heinous crimes"
  synonyms: odious · wicked · evil · atrocious · monstrous · abominable · detestable ·contemptible · reprehensible · despicable · egregious · horrific · terrible · awful ·
  
  
  

 

[Nehemiah6]

I know it sounds terrible that God would predestine anyone to hell, but why not? For that matter why should anyone be elected for salvation when we all deserve wrath?

Well we need not get into the nitty gritty of this subject, but you can simply ask yourself one question: If all of humanity is guilty before God as plainly stated in Scripture (Rom 3:10,19,23), has God made provision for the salvation of all humanity through Christ or not? (and the answer is "Yes" from Scripture starting with John 3:14-21). Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that God will predestine anyone to eternal Hell. As to sinners deserving wrath, that is a non-issue in view of the grace of God which bringeth salvation to ALL MEN (Tit 2:11).

 

[Dino246]

You certainly did. Here's the meaning of heinous, and since I did not imply any such thing, you distorted my meaning for your own agenda:

1. hatefully or shockingly evil :abominable
...

Do you consider the ordination of homosexuals "heinous"? I do; homosexual behaviour is called an abomination in Scripture.

Do you consider the ordination of women as preachers "heinous"? I do not. Nowhere is it condemned, whereas homosexual behaviour is.

Do you consider "glossolalia" being equated to "speaking in tongues" (in your definitions) "heinous"? I do not.

You put the three together in one sentence; I applied principles of grammar and context to understand what you were saying. If you were not saying that they were "heinous", evil, wrong, or any synonym thereof, you should have made that clear, because you certainly implied it. If you were not equating their wrongness, you should not have put them together. If you don't like my use of "heinous" then put another synonym for "wrong" in its place and stop straining at gnats.

 

[Dan58]

Well we need not get into the nitty gritty of this subject, but you can simply ask yourself one question: If all of humanity is guilty before God as plainly stated in Scripture (Rom 3:10,19,23), has God made provision for the salvation of all humanity through Christ or not? (and the answer is "Yes" from Scripture starting with John 3:14-21). Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that God will predestine anyone to eternal Hell. As to sinners deserving wrath, that is a non-issue in view of the grace of God which bringeth salvation to ALL MEN (Tit 2:11).

Yes, God does not predestinate anyone to hell fire, its only a result for those who will not receive Him. And Titus 2:11 better reads; "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men". Its there for all men, but not automatically assigned to all men, its conditional (John 3:16).

 

[Innerfire89]

Well we need not get into the nitty gritty of this subject, but you can simply ask yourself one question: If all of humanity is guilty before God as plainly stated in Scripture (Rom 3:10,19,23), has God made provision for the salvation of all humanity through Christ or not? (and the answer is "Yes" from Scripture starting with John 3:14-21). Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that God will predestine anyone to eternal Hell. As to sinners deserving wrath, that is a non-issue in view of the grace of God which bringeth salvation to ALL MEN (Tit 2:11).

But who will believe that in Christ without God making a special intervention? I think what you're getting at is that God loves the word as everyone in it, now that is true, but is that what is meant in the context of John 3:14-21? Take note Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, a Jewish Pharisee who thinks the God's people are Jews only. The world in this context is all of the nations.
Jesus lays his life down for his sheep, and we know that not all are his sheep. John 10:11.


Now we need to look at the spiritual condition of man.
Man is spiritually dead and can not discern the things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14.
Man is dead in his transgressions. Ephesians 2:5.
Man has a love for sin. John 3:19.
No man can come to Christ unless he is drawn to by the Father. John 6:44

Now just consider this and read Romans 9
A little highlight, Romans 9:22-23 What if God, willing to show to she's his wrath, and to make his known, endureth with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had adore prepared unto glory.