Not By Works

[joefizz]

They have special knowledge, nearly the entire church is blind, but not them. They have the gnosis, just ask them, they see things in Scripture few others see. Heck, even the church fathers didn't see it. But not them, they have gnosis!

Gnosis,you mean like from xenosaga?
that's the only gnosis I know of.

 

[joefizz]

All you gotta do is read the plain words of scripture right under your nose, lol. But I know there are reasons why the masses, even in the church, do not see these plain words.

It's ironic that you, a Protestant, would say this anyway. It was Luther and a handful of others alone who saw the scripture about salvation being by faith apart from works, while the church at large was completely blind to these plain words right under their noses.

And for a modern example, why is it that so many churches advocate tithing while not being able to see that you eat your own tithe two out of every three years and only give it exclusively to the poor and the alien and to those in ministry in the third year?

There is no 'special knowledge'. There are only people who, by God's grace, can see the plain words of the Bible for themselves. This grace is available to all. The question is, "will the others walk in that grace and see these words for themselves?" So far, the answer seems to be, 'no'. Paul explained that there would be many who would instead choose to follow after teachers who teach what tickles their ears.

ugh there's that word again "plain" still don't see where people get the idea that the bible is so "simple" to understand,if I didn't have the holy spirit I would not know much about the bible let alone be able to teach or tell about it in any wise,don't know how people think they understand God's word "by themselves".

 

[preacher4truth]

Gnosis,you mean like from xenosaga?
that's the only gnosis I know of.

Google it bro.

 

[PHart]

...don't know how people think they understand God's word "by themselves".

Interesting how you missed 'by God's grace' in my post. Go back and read it again.

 

[preacher4truth]

ugh there's that word again "plain" still don't see where people get the idea that the bible is so "simple" to understand,if I didn't have the holy spirit I would not know much about the bible let alone be able to teach or tell about it in any wise,don't know how people think they understand God's word "by themselves".

Yep. All this dumbing down of the Bible has facilitated the notion on how "simple" it is. This is generally advocated by "simpletons" themselves.

It amazes me that a preacher can preach an entire chapter in say 20 minutes. They get little to nothing out of it, serve it up to the people, and then tell the people "See how simple that is?!" That is a commentary on them, not the Word.

And this note as well concerning PHart and his speaking of "walking in grace." His gospel isn't even about grace, it's a gospel of works that rarely focuses on or even glorifies Christ - its main focus and talking point is man and what he can do, and how he can undo the work of Almighty God.

That is a false gospel to its very core.

How can you discern if the Holy Spirit is behind your Gospel message? The message will glorify Christ, not man; John 16:14.

 

[joefizz]

Interesting how you missed 'by God's grace' in my post. Go back and read it again.

no I saw that,what I didn't see was where you ask God for knowledge about his word,instead you said his scriptures were plain.
God's grace is not the same as "his wisdom".

 

[joefizz]

Google it bro.

no thank you,I use ask instead.

 

[preacher4truth]

no thank you,I use ask instead.

Did you check it out?

Also, look into gnosticism as well.

 

[loveme1]

Romans 4 is teaching the New Testament v the Old.. having to explain that the promise comes to all without the works of the law of Moses many would not accept the New Covenant believing they were heirs according to circumcision..

That the promise comes to all that have Faith.. like how Abraham believed GOD and it was accounted to him for Righteousness.. just as we are to Hear and Believe GOD through His Son's Testament... which is what it means that the Just shall live by Faith.. Faith that worketh by Love indeed.

 

[joefizz]

Did you check it out?

Also, look into gnosticism as well.

just looked it up,seems to be that it is a practice of by knowledge making claims that people instead of God are divine,figures.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”

Galatians 5:5-6, “For we, in Spirit, by belief, eagerly wait for the expectation of righteousness. For in Messiah יהושע neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but belief working through love."

1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Rom 2:26-29, “For circumcision indeed profits if you practice the Torah, but if you are a transgressor of the Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. So, if an uncircumcised one watches over the righteousnesses of the Torah, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned as circumcision? And the uncircumcised by nature, who perfects the Torah, shall judge you who notwithstanding letter and circumcision are a transgressor of the Torah! For he is not a Yehuḏi who is so outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But a Yehuḏi is he who is so inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart,g in Spirit, not literally, whose praise is not from men but from Yah.”

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

Romans 6:16, “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

John 12:26, “Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

 

[VCO]

There is a real spiritual truth here. How you picture an idea in your mind relies on a number
of reference points. If these reference points are set one way it makes sense to you, and
if set another way it means something different.

It is not unreasonable to be convinced ones own set of reference points is the definitive and
only conclusion. It is why it is difficult to actually see things as they are before the Lord.

The Lord is not like us. The issues at stake are not ours but His. We empathise, excuse, relate,
struggle through our existence, victims of our circumstance and emotions.

Pauls emphasis is always upon the journey of transformation, of the point of starting is very
different from the point of arrival.

So if you look only at an equation, I am safe or I am lost, you are looking at the wrong things.
In a family relationship, you ask, am I on good terms with these people or not. Do we get on
or are their subjects and things I cannot do?

There are things that will get you thrown out and expelled from the family, and things that will
encourage, build up and bring about encouragement.

There will always be some, who get expelled, a minority but they exist.
The focus is always on working things through.

Now if you have no life, and there is no relationship, then nuance, emphasis are irrelevant.
The language is am I safe, or am I lost. And the language becomes I am saved, these are
the words that hold me tight, and you are lost and doooooomed.

It is almost as if the stronger you try and grasp that which is not fully known or seen, the
more it evades.

Jesus put it like this

Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12:25

Where is your heart? Where is your desire and struggle?

STRANGE, most of us see it the way the Scriptures describe it with the SAME spiritual under standing as a result of comparing Scripture to Scripture. And the one's who do not see it with spiritual understanding have pronounced heresies.

1 Corinthians 2:6-14 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[VCO]

If anyone has not seen the morning news there are at least 50 dead and 400 wounded in a sniper attack in Las Vegas at an Outdoor Country and Western Concert. Pray for the victims wounded and the families of all casualties.

MORE SIGNS OF THE TIMES:


2 Timothy 3:1-5 (GWT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time. {That word "violent" can also be translated VICIOUS.}
[SUP]2 [/SUP] People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.

2 Timothy 3:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.

What has changed that may be a contributing factor to the ever increasing violent murder rate?

I think it started downhill when public executions were taken out the public eye.

Exodus 21:14 (NCV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But if someone plans and murders another person on purpose, put him to death, even if he has run to my altar for safety.

 

[VCO]

A Prayer That a Synergist Won't Pray

(An Open Challenge to All Synergists by: John Hendryx)​

Repost:

Here is a prayer that would be consistent with the synergist's theology if he really believed that faith is a product of our unregenerated human nature and not the result of grace alone:

"God, I give you glory for everything else, but not my faith ... This is the one thing that is my very own that I produced of my fallen natural capacities. For this little bit the glory is mine. So I thank you Lord that I am not like other men who do not have faith. When you extended your grace to all men some did not make use of it, BUT I DID. While You deserve glory for all I have Lord, my faith was the one part that I contributed to the price of my redemption, apart from and independent of the effectual work of Your Holy Spirit."​

YEP, you are right, THAT IS PURE HERESY. If you can BELIEVE, that was part of the FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.

​

 

[Deacon_D]

Faith is the spark plug that keeps us holing but Holiness is the oxygen of Heaven

 

[Deacon_D]

Then then what you are saying is what Peter said in Acts 2:38 means nothing?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where did you respond to my question?

In response to this.

by the way, Funny how you slammed on someone because they could not answer you about your car analogy, yet when I did, you ignored it.. That seems to happen a lot when people give you a response you can not overcome, be it me or others..

again, that should be your clue that something is wrong with your system, but you never take the clue, you hide it away or excuse it.

Your original question.

I have a car that will run for 342 miles on a full tank of gas. According to you, it's not a car that can run for 342 miles if I am able to exit that car. The car doesn't cease being a car that will run for 342 mile car just because I can I jump out it. What happens in that case is I simply no longer possess the car that will run for 342 miles. The mileage of the car does not change, lol. Neither is it true that the life that lasts forever can not be the life that lasts forever if I am able to no longer be in that eternal life. What happens in that case is I simply no longer possess the life that lasts forever, lol.

my answers

1. You did not put yourself in the car. It was sealed. And it was impossible for you to enter. After you got in., God sealed you, just like he sealed Noah in the ark. Noah could not break Gods seal any more than You can.
2. Why do you insist on physical examples representing flawed weak human ideas to represent inflawed perfect things of God. That should wake you up right there.

Actually the term sealed should be used the way God said it in his word.

Sealed UNTIL the day of redemption.

the word not only tells you how long that seal last. It tells us when it will end

what it does not do , is say you can unseal yourself. That would be giving you more power than you have, and place you ABOVE God.

By the way, we know you are not Phil HARTtman, What should we call you? You never answered that either, or did you in the last few days an I missed it?

 

[TruthTalk]

STRANGE, most of us see it the way the Scriptures describe it with the SAME spiritual under standing as a result of comparing Scripture to Scripture. And the one's who do not see it with spiritual understanding have pronounced heresies.

Hi VCO, I agree with all of what you say and only want to add support to your post.

The scripture passage, "For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it." Matthew16:24, Biblical Scholars agree this passage is a call by Jesus to his disciples, present and future, to "pick up their cross and follow Him." Jesus has made His triumphant entry as King into Jerusalem and the Cross is always not far away.

To use this passage of scripture in any other context is a wrong reading of the text and will lead people astray. Mr.Jens has a hunger for spiritual truth, but his wisdom is earthly and cannot save a single soul. I have been around his earthly philosophy all of my life and he teaches a false Christ and a sugar coated gospel.

Originally Posted by PeterJens

There is a real spiritual truth here.
Jesus put it like this

"Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life."
John 12:25

Where is your heart? Where is your desire and struggle? (Bad application false gospel)

Matthew16:24-26

24) Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and,

"take up their cross and follow me."

25) "For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it." 26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

 

[PHart]

my answers

Good grief, you didn't even address the question, lol.

By the way, we know you are not Phil HARTtman, What should we call you? You never answered that either, or did you in the last few days an I missed it?

What is it about my screen name that you can not see, lol? Address me exactly the way I have plainly written my screen name. Sheesh, are plainly written words too difficult for you people, lol?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good grief, you didn't even address the question, lol.

Actually yes I did, Is this your answer?

What is it about my screen name that you can not see, lol? Address me exactly the way I have plainly written my screen name. Sheesh, are plainly written words too difficult for you people, lol?

I see a picture of a man who was murdered and his initials.