Not By Works

[VCO]

. . .


Question: Did you have the Holy Spirit from birth?


. . .

No, however the Holy Spirit is the one that tills soil looking for fertile soil in one's heart, preparing it to receive the seed of the Word, sometimes for many years before he enters that Heart.

I was raised in the very ritualistic, order of service style of Church, that NEVER TAUGHT BORN AGAIN, and only had 10 minute sermons that I day dreamed through every Sunday. I acknowledged that the stories about Jesus were true, but THAT IS NOT FAITH, even the demons acknowledge that much. I was not born again until I was 29, after three attempts a suicide in one week. The change and the difference inside of me was very DRAMATIC. Where I once thought the Bible was the most boring book on earth, after I was born again, I found it to be very exciting to study and learn. Where I once day dreamed through every sermon and complained "Pastor was sure long winded today", if he went 20 minutes; after I was born again I could eagerly listen for an Hour and wished there was more. Where I once was in a big hurry to get out the door, after I was born again I wanted to hang around and fellowship with other Believers. Where I once felt no LOVE inside me, after I was born again, I was FULL OF LOVE, especially for my LORD. Where I never felt guilt over my sins, after I was born again, my guilt overwhelmed me WAVE AFTER WATER as I felt very deep MOURNING over my utter sinfulness. Where I once felt this world was my home, I now know HEAVEN is my Home and LONG TO BE THERE with my LORD. ETC. There is NO mistaking that HE was CHANGING ME FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Born Again is the moment the Holy Spirit enters your heart and births your human spirit from death into eternal life; and HE POURS GOD's LOVE directly into your human spirit. It then is like you have two minds, the one between your ears want to do what Self wants to do; however the mind in your human spirit, wants to do what Pleases the LORD. The more you study the Word the More your mind in your born again human spirit, becomes dominant over the mind of the flesh, between your ears.

 

[PeterJens]

No, however the Holy Spirit is the one that tills soil looking for fertile soil in one's heart, preparing it to receive the seed of the Word, sometimes for many years before he enters that Heart.

I was raised in the very ritualistic, order of service style of Church, that NEVER TAUGHT BORN AGAIN, and only had 10 minute sermons that I day dreamed through every Sunday. I acknowledged that the stories about Jesus were true, but THAT IS NOT FAITH, even the demons acknowledge that much. I was not born again until I was 29, after three attempts a suicide in one week. The change and the difference inside of me was very DRAMATIC. Where I once thought the Bible was the most boring book on earth, after I was born again, I found it to be very exciting to study and learn. Where I once day dreamed through every sermon and complained "Pastor was sure long winded today", if he went 20 minutes; after I was born again I could eagerly listen for an Hour and wished there was more. Where I once was in a big hurry to get out the door, after I was born again I wanted to hang around and fellowship with other Believers. Where I once felt no LOVE inside me, after I was born again, I was FULL OF LOVE, especially for my LORD. Where I never felt guilt over my sins, after I was born again, my guilt overwhelmed me WAVE AFTER WATER as I felt very deep MOURNING over my utter sinfulness. Where I once felt this world was my home, I now know HEAVEN is my Home and LONG TO BE THERE with my LORD. ETC. There is NO mistaking that HE was CHANGING ME FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Born Again is the moment the Holy Spirit enters your heart and births your human spirit from death into eternal life; and HE POURS GOD's LOVE directly into your human spirit. It then is like you have two minds, the one between your ears want to do what Self wants to do; however the mind in your human spirit, wants to do what Pleases the LORD. The more you study the Word the More your mind in your born again human spirit, becomes dominant over the mind of the flesh, between your ears.

Amen. My experience in the Lord is the difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge
is stepping out in faith, love and praise. The difference between those who accept the ideas but
their heart does nothing and those who lift up the name of Jesus is their heart response in worship.

The second area is repentance, confession and sorrow over sin.

Now as we are discussing and experiencing the same realities in Christ, the basis of this division and
stirred up antagonism is false, and sent by the enemy to divide brothers and sisters in Christ.

Assurance of salvation is knowing the reality you described and walking in the ways of Jesus.

 

[PHart]

===================================================

it's a true 'wonder'!!!, when/how God's 'most favored', could convince himself/believe,
that he could usurp his Creator???

Every unbeliever who ever lived usurped his creator. Oh, wait......you're probably Calvinist. This whole thing is just a meaningless, pre-programmed game anyway. And so the discussion with the Calvinist ends right there.

 

[PHart]

We have caught you making NUMEROUS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS COMMENTs, so you are NOT telling the TRUTH when you say "that's what I've been saying! Why is it that when you say it it's not a works gospel, but when I say it it is?".

Lol, believing is not works righteousness.
Righteousness comes through believing, but you and others keep insisting that's a works righteousness gospel. That's why you 'think' I've been making "NUMEROUS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS COMMENTs" (your quote).

The church has fallen a long way down. Now even believing in the forgiveness of God is on the side of the works that can not justify.

 

[PHart]

Witty comments will not help you keep that which is not losable .....I suggest you really trust Jesus...!

You have yet to explain why it is that when you say 'I' should trust Jesus it isn't a self righteous 'ME' gospel, but when I tell people to trust God now all of a sudden it's a 'ME' gospel that's all about the person and not Jesus.

As a Calvinist, shouldn't you NOT be telling 'ME' to believe since it's up to God if he's going to do my believing and keep doing my believing for me? Seriously, why are you telling ME to trust Jesus when you have been repeatedly saying that if 'I' do the believing that's me trying to earn my own salvation? Shouldn't you, as a Calvinist, just keep quiet and just leave it up to God as to whether or not he's going to do my trusting for me?

This is a serious post. DO NOT BLOW IT OFF. If you are a teacher you HAVE to explain this duplicity. If nothing else, at least you should take ownership of it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts:2:38
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized (our part), in the name of Jesus Christ for (God's part).

Okay here it is again,

(Our part, what the believer does) - "Repent, and each of you be baptized"
(God's part), "the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

God bless

Baptism is not our part for salvation or the gift. But peter is telling those who had received remission of sin to be baptized.

I hope your not saying this (am sure your not) just want to clarify.

 

[PHart]

No, however the Holy Spirit is the one that tills soil looking for fertile soil in one's heart, preparing it to receive the seed of the Word, sometimes for many years before he enters that Heart.

I was raised in the very ritualistic, order of service style of Church, that NEVER TAUGHT BORN AGAIN, and only had 10 minute sermons that I day dreamed through every Sunday. I acknowledged that the stories about Jesus were true, but THAT IS NOT FAITH, even the demons acknowledge that much. I was not born again until I was 29, after three attempts a suicide in one week. The change and the difference inside of me was very DRAMATIC. Where I once thought the Bible was the most boring book on earth, after I was born again, I found it to be very exciting to study and learn. Where I once day dreamed through every sermon and complained "Pastor was sure long winded today", if he went 20 minutes; after I was born again I could eagerly listen for an Hour and wished there was more. Where I once was in a big hurry to get out the door, after I was born again I wanted to hang around and fellowship with other Believers. Where I once felt no LOVE inside me, after I was born again, I was FULL OF LOVE, especially for my LORD. Where I never felt guilt over my sins, after I was born again, my guilt overwhelmed me WAVE AFTER WATER as I felt very deep MOURNING over my utter sinfulness. Where I once felt this world was my home, I now know HEAVEN is my Home and LONG TO BE THERE with my LORD. ETC. There is NO mistaking that HE was CHANGING ME FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Born Again is the moment the Holy Spirit enters your heart and births your human spirit from death into eternal life; and HE POURS GOD's LOVE directly into your human spirit. It then is like you have two minds, the one between your ears want to do what Self wants to do; however the mind in your human spirit, wants to do what Pleases the LORD. The more you study the Word the More your mind in your born again human spirit, becomes dominant over the mind of the flesh, between your ears.

I have this same testimony. It's wonderful. But my question was in regard to the point you made about if we know how one man got saved then we know how all men get saved (or something like that). Well, John the Baptist was saved in the womb. Since we know this, all men are saved that way? Of course not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, no, no, lol.
Eternal security is based on what you believe God will do (and has already done).



Remember, you said it, not me, lol. And I agree....there is no OSAS doctrine in the Bible.


And that doctrine of the eternal security of the believer you are referring to says that once you are saved you are always saved. That's why it's called 'OSAS'.

Biblical security is this: The one who is presently believing is secure in eternal life--Jesus Christ. That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.

Thats not security at all. That is trust in self. Your ability to continue to believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, I see what you're saying. I should believe and trust in God's ability to keep his promise to begin, finish and complete his work of salvation in me. Wait........that's what I've been saying! Why is it that when you say it it's not a works gospel, but when I say it it is?

Sorry man, You can not say this, and then say you can lose it. based on something you did (or did not do) that is not trust in God that is trust in self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And the minute the one who is "presently believing," is secure, (meaning he or she may stop believing), then they will lose their eternal salvation. Then you say this; That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.

The eternal security of the believer cannot be reduced to an acronym called OSAS. You are still trying to sell born again believers that they will lose their salvation by something they do not do, and you are wrong.

I'll choose God's eternal security over anything you have to say about "keep believing" for eternal security. You are twisting and turning the True Gospel into a Bad News Gospel, I'm not buying your lies, now go cook some more lasagna......

There is no predestination or election in Pharts I(I keep thinking of fa man who was murdered by his wife now when I see this, Sad) theology. God can not possibly know who would be saved and who would not to even be able to predestine anyone, Because God can not know even today who will continue to believe.

His God is weak, His god is not omniscient, and his God can not keep us from falling away.

He thinks he can break the seal that God made Ihe still has snot responded to my answer to his thing about being sealed in a car and being able to get out..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no predestination or election in Pharts I(I keep thinking of fa man who was murdered by his wife now when I see this, Sad) theology. God can not possibly know who would be saved and who would not to even be able to predestine anyone, Because God can not know even today who will continue to believe.

His God is weak, His god is not omniscient, and his God can not keep us from falling away.

He thinks he can break the seal that God made Ihe still has snot responded to my answer to his thing about being sealed in a car and being able to get out..

Just to note. I see Phart is dissing calvanism.

predestination and election are not Calvinist ide4as, they are scriptural. Calvanism has a view of what they think they mean, (which I disagree with) but the terms are still scriptural.

 

[PHart]

Sorry man, You can not say this, and then say you can lose it. based on something you did (or did not do) that is not trust in God that is trust in self.

So, because I had to believe in order to be saved 31 years ago I was really just trusting in self? My believing was really just a work of self righteousness because I had to do that believing to be saved?

 

[gb9]

So, because I had to believe in order to be saved 31 years ago I was really just trusting in self? My believing was really just a work of self righteousness because I had to do that believing to be saved?

God's grace toward us is what saves us. Titus 3. we believe in Christ. Christ was and always will be. our belief is accepting what is already there. our belief does not manufacture grace. grace is always there for us to accept.

look at the flood story. God made his decision, then he choose Noah. so, extended his grace to Noah, Noah had faith in God, the Noah did the work of building the ark. grace, faith , works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, because I had to believe in order to be saved 31 years ago I was really just trusting in self? My believing was really just a work of self righteousness because I had to do that believing to be saved?

You make it self righteousness by demanding you must continue to believe of your own power. or you will lose salvation.

the rest of us have faith in All God said, Including the parts where he said he has perfected FOREVER those who are in the process of being sanctified. Where those who believe HAVE ETERNAL Life, not might have, Where he has sealed until the day of redemption those who heard the word, and trusted in the word. That whoever eats and drinks (hears and trusts) will never hunger or thirst, never die, Live forever, and be raised on the last day.

I am sorry you do not trust those things based on Gods promises.

 

[VCO]

Lol, believing is not works righteousness.
Righteousness comes through believing {☜FALSE DOCTRINE}, but you and others keep insisting that's a works righteousness gospel. That's why you 'think' I've been making "NUMEROUS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS COMMENTs" (your quote).

The church has fallen a long way down. Now even believing in the forgiveness of God is on the side of the works that can not justify.

Believing in ENGLISH carries a much lesser meaning than it does in GREEK or HEBREW. AND RIGHTEOUSNESS COMES THROUGH THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS CHRIST. It is not OUR Righteousness, it is the Righteous of CHRIST credited to our account.

Titus 3:4-5 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Romans 5:17 (ASV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.

 

[VCO]

Baptism is not our part for salvation or the gift. But peter is telling those who had received remission of sin to be baptized.

I hope your not saying this (am sure your not) just want to clarify.

AMEN, and the Baptism (Immersion) that is associated with SALVATION is when the HOLY SPIRIT Immerses us into the Spiritual Body of Christ, the moment we first have Saving FAITH.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

 

[VCO]

I have this same testimony. It's wonderful. But my question was in regard to the point you made about if we know how one man got saved then we know how all men get saved (or something like that). Well, John the Baptist was saved in the womb. Since we know this, all men are saved that way? Of course not.

JOHN THE BAPTIST as far as WE KNOW IT, was the only person ever BORN AGAIN IN THE WOMB. So once again your theories are FALSE DOCTRINE.

 

[Deacon_D]

No, no, no, lol.
Eternal security is based on what you believe God will do (and has already done).



Remember, you said it, not me, lol. And I agree....there is no OSAS doctrine in the Bible.


And that doctrine of the eternal security of the believer you are referring to says that once you are saved you are always saved. That's why it's called 'OSAS'.

Biblical security is this: The one who is presently believing is secure in eternal life--Jesus Christ. That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.

There is no OSAS even mentioned in what I am saying. I can be lost tomorrow if I don’t keep the commandms of God and my friend, so will you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no OSAS even mentioned in what I am saying. I can be lost tomorrow if I don’t keep the commandms of God and my friend, so will you

What makes you think you can keep the commands, and what makes you think that could keep you saved?

 

[TruthTalk]

Baptism is not our part for salvation or the gift. But peter is telling those who had received remission of sin to be baptized.

I hope your not saying this (am sure your not) just want to clarify.

Hi E-grateful, you are correct I am not saying we have any part in God saving our soul, none. What I am saying is that because God has saved us and we have received remission of sin, we should be baptized. Baptism is symbolic of what has already taken place. I hope this is clear now.